686 Revolver Jam - I didn't think it could happen

[Practical]

A revolver is a man made mass produced mechanical device and is prone to failure, but much less than a semi auto. I've been carrying them for over 40 years and still have confidence in their reliability.

The reliability of modern pistols is very likely GREATER then that of a revolver.

I would argue now that revolvers are consumer products not law enforcement or military products their quality assurance and design has moved to cost reduction rather than high quality/reliability.

Pistols today are the first line firearms and have the highest degree of reliability designed in.

I would believe today's pistols with good ammo are MORE reliable then revolvers under real world and rough testing.

 

[jwk]

Jay, when you spring the crane on a revolver you may not be able to open the cylinder but you still have six shots. I had this happen to me once in what could have been an emergency. Bailed out of a vehicle. Gun bag with the strap looped around my neck got tangled up in the seat belt. My M28 ended up going over the top of the truck door and ended up under my wife's Subaru. I barely managed to fish it out, thumbed the hammer and cylinder would still turn. Pressure on the trigger was still moving the hammer so revolver was going to fire. Couldn't check it further without firing a round so in the door I went. Turned out to be a false alarm. When the adrenaline shakes quit I went to unload revolver and put it away. Cylinder wouldn't open. My pistolsmith told me to take it to the range and empty it before sending it to him. Sure enough 6 shots. If I would have needed 7 I would have been in trouble if I couldn't get to one of the other guns stashed in the house. I would have had 6 however.

I put as much trust in a good wheelgun as I do in a good autoloader. I've had revolvers bind up and choke and even had a cylinder fall out of a revolver and hit the dirt during a reload but I have also had 1911s, Browning HPs and several other flavors of autos choke. I locked up a 1911 once so tightly that we had to put a rod down the barrel with the pistol in a vice and literally hammer the slide back. Only handgun I have ever owned that never choked, never failed to fire, would feed empty cases and out of spec ammo was a S&W 645. The one that I had would eat the crappiest ammo you have ever seen. I could deliberately limp wrist it and it wouldn't choke. It was so dependable that it was boring. Sold it because it was bigger than a boat anchor and wished that I hadn't. Once I get settled in the new home town, get my practice there running well and the renovations to the new home all finished, I'm going to be in the market for another one. The flip side of that however is that I'll trust my life to a good revolver if need be and not worry about it failing.

 

[finesse_r]

I'd take a small fine file and smooth that burr off and be done with it. I've had single action revolver cases hang on the sharp edges of the loading gate and frame if it wasn't perfectly aligned with the frame. Just rounded the edges a little bit and all was well. Same here.

I agree with the above quote, that is most likely all there is to it.

Many, many years ago no gun left S&W without being hand polished out to remove the burrs and rough or sharp edges that get created during manufacturing and they had serious quality control as well. That is no longer the case with any gun manufacturer. I first noticed this with Colt. Since then it slowly became normal at all firearms manufacturers.

With all the new hires, you can count on getting some pretty rough guns as far as burrs from any manufacturer these days. Smith and Ruger are still better than most, but even the best are turning out many new guns with rough edges and burrs. I just read where Ruger went from 150 employees at one plant in 2008 to 750 employees currently and they are looking for a new plant to open. I would expect S&W has had similar increases in staff. That translates into a lot of young employees without decades of experience that you once found in quality gun manufacturing plants.

First thing to do with any new gun, revolver or semi-auto is to work it while it is empty and in the case of a revolver do some extensive dry firing. That will take of some of the worst burrs. Then check visually, I use a magnifying lens, for burrs and such. Most can be easily filed or sanded off.

Also check the screws, and sights and make certain everything is nice and tight like it is supposed to be.

Then I take it out and put some rounds through it to see that it actually fires like it should.

In this case if you are comfortable cleaning off the burr then do so. I cannot imagine such routine maintenance would in any way impact your warranty. If you just feel it is beyond your skills, or beyond what you want to tackle, or you feel that there is something else wrong then send it back to S&W. I expect they will take care of it pretty quickly, at least that has been my experience the only two times I had to send a gun in to them. They were easy to work with and offered to pay shipping both ways. I have found their warranty work to be excellent.

 

[finesse_r]

I would believe today's pistols with good ammo are MORE reliable then revolvers under real world and rough testing.

I have to disagree with this. While today's semi-autos are a vast improvement over those of the 60's and 70's as far as reliability they still are not nearly as reliable as a revolver. It is a simple matter of the complexity of the two guns. There are just too many more things that can and sometimes do go wrong with or break in a semi-auto compared to the revolver.

Safeties and magazines add undue complexity that you do not have on a revolver, not to mention the frame sliding back and forth and all of it having to happen in perfect harmony to function. Anyone knows that anything mechanical can fail, and the more complex something is the greater the potential for such mechanical failures. Even if I had not been shooting both for well over four decades and still shoot a lot, the mere fact of the complexity of the two types of weapons makes it almost impossible for semi-auto’s as a group to be anywhere close to as reliable as revolvers as a group.

While revolvers do jam or break, it is much rarer than having a semi-auto jam or break. In fact in all my years I have only had one misfire of a revolver and that was a M617 rim fire .22 LR that did not fire the first time, but did the second time it was struck by the firing pin. I cannot count the number of jams, failure to feeds, and broken parts I have had on semi-autos. It is many, many dozens of them. The worst was about three years ago with a Like New Colt Combat Commander 1911. It was the worst gun I have ever owned and so unreliable it was never carried or shot away from the farm. It is certainly not the only semi I have owned with a variety of problems.

Certainly the change of police forces from revolvers to semi-autos has led to a much more wide spread acceptance and usage of semi-autos and to an improvement in their reliably. The handguns seen in movies today and on television are for the most part semi-autos. Semi-Autos are flatter and can be easier to conceal than some revolvers. The primary advantage of semi-autos is their fire power for the average shooter and ease of reloading with a magazine.

Of course for an expert like Jerry Miculek a revolver is actually faster and can deliver greater firepower than a semi-auto, but not many people have Jerry Miculek’s skills nor do they have the time and patience to practice like I expect he does to have such proficiency with a revolver. (He shoots a S&W 625 using moon clips by the way)

Until the last year I carried mostly third generation semi-autos and I still have a great many of them as I consider them to be some of the finest semi-autos ever made as far as reliability and over all quality. But I now carry concealed a revolver, mostly a Model 696, with a 649-2 in my pocket sometimes. I made this change due to the simplicity and reliably of a revolver compared to a semi-auto.

The chances of me needing more than five or ten rounds in this area is slim to non-existent. However, if I do need a weapon, I want it to work and that means the most reliable gun I can possibly carry and for me right now that is a M696, or sometimes a Ruger Speed Six, and on occasions even a M649-2 BUG.

 

[Bat Guano]

I've liked and shot 1911s since 1959 and still like them. But each year I find more S&W and Ruger DA revolvers around the house.

The thing with a wheelgun is that you can pretty well function test them without shooting them and be confident they will work with ammo in them. If they do act up you can generally diagnose and fix whatever went wrong. As a rule, if the extractor rod is blue loc-tited in and the recess under the extractor star kept clean and dry, issues will be very few and far between.

In contrast to that, when semiautos act up the cause is often very intermittent and obscure--with resultant aggravation, heartburn, and often vile language.

I think it says something that when a good DA revolver goes down, it's a rare and memorable event that gets etched in your memory. On the other hand, when a semiauto is stone reliable over a period of years and years, it's also very remarkable. But--I have to say that EVERY semiauto pistol I have EVER owned has choked at one time or another to include factory ammo.

The norm with the DA revolvers is that almost all of them have worked monotonously for lo, these many decades. The exceptions got fixed and then stayed fixed.

I'd take any of them into harm's way tonight. The semiautos, I'd have to sort through and hope for the best.

Maybe in another 50 years I'll feel differently...

 

[brucev]

Disappointment with a item purchased can be hard to swallow, whether it's a lawn mower, car or even a firearm. I've been shooting S&W revolvers since 1980. I've bought and used revolvers made from the late 1960's. I've bought revolvers made during the supposedly infamous Bangor Punta days, etc., etc. Occasionally I've had a revolver that required some S&W attention, such as a broken hammer nose, etc. It was always very minor. It was always easily fixed. It was always a shock when such a problem developed, but it was rare. It still is. With revolvers and pistols made by S&W and other high quality producers, problems a firearm are just that, rare.

From your pictures it does appear that the small burr on the recoil shield could be the cause of the problems you are experiencing with your revolver. If you have the correct needle files with which to remove it and if you have the mechanical skill to use the files correctly, you might want to try removing it yourself. However, we are far removed from the days of inexpensive police turn-in shoot a little carried a lot revolvers. Home gunsmithing is never a selling point if and when you want to sell a firearm. S&W offers you a life-time warranty on this revolver. Let them pay the shipping and make the fix. While it is in their hands you might suggest to them that they consider checking the DA and SA and lockup to see if anything needs to be done. Probably it will not require any attention. But, experienced gunsmiths will make that determination. Upon return you'll not have to be concerned with whether or not there is anything about which to worry.

 

[Jimk686]

...S&W offers you a life-time warranty on this revolver. Let them pay the shipping and make the fix. While it is in their hands you might suggest to them that they consider checking the DA and SA and lockup to see if anything needs to be done. Probably it will not require any attention. But, experienced gunsmiths will make that determination. Upon return you'll not have to be concerned with whether or not there is anything about which to worry.

This is my thinking exactly. Although all indications point to that burr as being the culprit, I can't say for sure that it is the cause.

Also, I did have another problem with this gun regarding the mainspring (Mainspring Issue). That was a pretty simple fix, but another thing that should not have happened. Maybe my gun was put together on an off day.

It won't kill me to be without it for a little bit in order to have an experienced gunsmith look the whole thing over. I know this issue is highly unusual and as I mentioned earlier my plan is to keep this gun for a long time. I contacted Smith and Wesson and they are sending out the shipping label.

Thanks for all the feedback, I'll let everyone know what they find and how this all works out.

Jim K.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
1. Does the cases have a "Scratch" on the rear of the cases ?
2. Does the "Hand" have spring tension ?

 

[Jimk686]

Hi:
1. Does the cases have a "Scratch" on the rear of the cases ?
2. Does the "Hand" have spring tension ?

I saved the cases so I went back and checked and there are no scratches on the rear of them. Not sure how I would check for the "hand" spring tension, but the gun otherwise was handling just fine.

 

[MarkDozier]

I ALWAYS do it if I can. Heck I would do my own open heart surgery if I could.

Now while I believe that, You have to have heart to do surgery on it.

 

[rangemeister]

Agree that small repairs are sometimes essential. Shipped a gun to Smith once and in return shipping the UPS man had my 15 year sign for the gun. After a few weeks of not finding the gun I contacted Smith, they had the signed receipt, so I then called and wrote UPS with unkind words, then had a heart to heart with my son. Shipping can be a dicey situation. Hope it works out for you

 

[Elkins45]

I have owned two revolvers that would either jam their lockwork or spin their cylinder. Both were S&W and both were the newer scandium framed ultralights: one in 38 special and one in 44 magnum.

My 1980 produced Model 19 would occasionally bind the cylinder when I got it dramatically overheated by shooting 20-24 rounds of full-powered 357 ammo as fast as I could reload. I didn't really see that as a huge deal because it's such an accurate gun and because I knew I would never be in a defensive situation where I had 24 rounds of ammo to burn.

I can't even begin to tell you how many auto malfunctions I have cleared. The revolver problems are memorable precisely because they were anomalies.

Back on topic: I will fix problems in older used guns myself. Problems with guns I bought new will go back to the factory. That lifetime warranty is one good reason for choosing S&W.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

A revolver is a man made mass produced mechanical device and is prone to failure, but much less than a semi auto. I've been carrying them for over 40 years and still have confidence in their reliability.

Same here. Once you've verified that you own a high quality revolver in proper working condition, then you can have a high degree of confidence that it will reliably function with a wide range of ammo, and that there are very few things that can go wrong. That's not to say, however, that nothing can go wrong. It happens from time to time, even with a high quality piece that's been determined to to be in proper mechanical condition, rare though it is.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I vote to send it back. They will check it all over and fix it. There was a recent thread about a guy who sent back a revolver, and when it came back, not only his "known" issue was addressed, but they replaced the cylinder and other parts due to defects that could only be checked by the factory. Two charge holes were expanded, causing issues with rotation. How do any of us know without testing that you do not have a similar issue?

While filing off the pictured burr seems simple enough, there may be another issue that none of the posters are seeing since complete diagnosis cannot be made without seeing it, measuring things and testing.

Most of us are just not qualified to do this kind of work, and I would rather let someone with expertise make it right. It would give me some confidence to know that an experienced gunsmith went over the whole thing.

 

[Bullzaye]

I have to disagree with this. While today's semi-autos are a vast improvement over those of the 60's and 70's as far as reliability they still are not nearly as reliable as a revolver. It is a simple matter of the complexity of the two guns. There are just too many more things that can and sometimes do go wrong with or break in a semi-auto compared to the revolver.

Safeties and magazines add undue complexity that you do not have on a revolver, not to mention the frame sliding back and forth and all of it having to happen in perfect harmony to function. Anyone knows that anything mechanical can fail, and the more complex something is the greater the potential for such mechanical failures. Even if I had not been shooting both for well over four decades and still shoot a lot, the mere fact of the complexity of the two types of weapons makes it almost impossible for semi-auto’s as a group to be anywhere close to as reliable as revolvers as a group.

This is, for the most part, not correct. If you ever take a look at the actual mechanics involved in both, you'll see that the revolver is WAY more complex than the semi-auto pistol.

It's tricky to assess the superiority of one platform over the other. It does seem as though semi-autos experience more failures of one kind or another, however...when a revolver DOES experience a malfunction, it is quite often much more catastrophic, and often renders the gun completely inoperative. Over my years of shooting, I've had probably a hundred or more malfunctions with semi-autos (excluding rim-fires), and perhaps only 15 or 20 with revolvers. However...in each of those semi-autos, the gun was cleared and was able to keep firing within a second or two, but in every instance with a revolver it was at least a minute or two to bring the gun back to operation, and it can sometimes be several minutes, to several hours before the gun may function again.

So...while you may experience more failures with a semi-auto, most of these failures can easily be cleared, and you still have a viable functioning firearm. A revolver may experience less malfunctions, but when they occur, they are more frequently catastrophic.

Tim

 

[rz625-8]

Looks like the round is overloaded just a tad or not sized right. That is why it is sticking out from behind the cylinder. Is that a factory found or a reloaded round that is sticking out? Normally,you can feel it if the round toward the bottom of the casing is sweld up. Check your loaded brass. That could have caused the problem. especially if it is a factory round that went thru a automated loading machine at the factory.

 

[Jimk686]

Looks like the round is overloaded just a tad or not sized right. That is why it is sticking out from behind the cylinder. Is that a factory found or a reloaded round that is sticking out? Normally,you can feel it if the round toward the bottom of the casing is sweld up. Check your loaded brass. That could have caused the problem. especially if it is a factory round that went thru a automated loading machine at the factory.

This occurred with ammo from 3 different boxes and 2 different manufacturers. I showed that image of the casing as an example of how it sometimes sits when in that position of the cylinder. It can slip in or out as gravity or recoil impacts it.

 

[Jimk686]

I vote to send it back. They will check it all over and fix it. ....

While filing off the pictured burr seems simple enough, there may be another issue that none of the posters are seeing since complete diagnosis cannot be made without seeing it, measuring things and testing. ....

This was my thinking as well. Given the fact that it had one other issue (the "mainspring issue" that I link to further above) I'll feel better once a professional looks the whole thing over and gives it their blessing. Just waiting on the shipping label from Smith & Wesson now.