8mm Mauser conversion

[Narragansett]

I saw a rifle today with a Mauser action. Originally it was an 8mm Mauser. I saw no caliber stamping, but the action had a stainless bbl put on it, and i was told it was 308 Winchester now. Without checking into it I took the owners word for it, but am thinking a bit about it, and it seems to me that 30-06 would be the proper caliber, because of the long action. It just seems to me the 308 action is shorter. I am concerned that the owner may be confused, or is it me?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

No way to tell for sure without doing a chamber casting to determine exact dimensions of the chamber.

8X57 Mauser is typically a long action, which would be suitable for cartridges in the .30-06 class (European designation is 7.62X63mm), but the .308 (51mm case length) would work just fine. Israel converted thousands of '98 Mausers to .308 back in the 60's. Case length difference between 8X57 and .308 (7.62X51 NATO) is only 6mm, less than 1/4", and one key to bolt action rifle function is to keep cartridge length within the limits of the magazine, so there would be no problem with .308 in a long action Mauser. Case head dimensions of the .30-06 and .308 are the same, so no difference in bolt face or extractor.

 

[LVSteve]

The only 7mm or 8mm Mausers conversions to 30-06 I have ever seen had a relief cut in the receiver ring to accommodate the longer cartridge. The Israelis did plenty of conversions to 7.62 NATO from 8mm Mausers, and the Chileans did a bunch from 7x57 as well. Some involved chamber inserts while others used new barrels to deal with the new cartridge being shorter.

 

[steelslaver]

Take a fired 308 case and a fired 06 case. Try them in chamber. A 308 case from a loose 308 may be hard to chamber in a tight 308 chamber, but a 06 will stop well short of the bolt being in position to close. The 308 might go so far into the chamber of an 06 that you might have to tap it out with a cleaning rod.

Or rent a go 308 go/no go gauge set from 4D Reamer Rentals. $8 for the rent, $9.75 postage, plus return postage.

 

[Narragansett]

Thanks for the information

 

[Bakebfr480]

Get some cerrosafe and do a chamber cast. Not unusual to rebarrel a 98 to 308. I've seen shorter rounds in 98's over the years.

 

[2152hq]

A conversion to 30-06 is easy enough to do on a std length 98. But as LVSteve points out, the back top edge of the recv'r ring is generally notched for the bullet point for easier loading. Many times the front rt edge of the loading port in the ring also for easy ejection of a loaded round.

Loading them into the magazine w/o notching the ring is certainly easy, just load one by one and bullet first to get by the ring.
The notch is to afford the use of the stripper clips in the rifle.
The slight notch in the front of the loading port is so emptying the rifle of loaded rounds, the lengthy things don't hang up in the port each time.

Empty brass is no problem of course.

It could be one of any of a basket full of 30cal rounds. Both factory chamberings and Improved rounds plus Wildcat numbers.

Standard bolt face,,or Magnum dimension?,,that can elliminate a few choices. Look at the feed rails and see if they have been altered/ground from their original spec. That would indicate conversion to a case much different than that orig chambered in the action.
Has the magazine box been altered,,lengthened at the front and or back to allow a longer round to be used?
The bolt stop is sometimes cut back to minimum for a greater bolt throw and the back of the box filed and milled out to get extra room.
The front is sometimes extended and the feed ramp shortened as a result.
These alterations would usually be in a Magnum conversion like 300H&H or the like.
You might be surprised what can be stuffed down into one of those standard 98's.

With no markings on it and only a say-so from the seller,,I'd want a chamber cast of some sort to look at.
It doesn't have to be anything special like those cast from Cerrosafe at this point.
A simple wax or 5min epoxy cast of the chamber and just a bit of the bore will be enough to tell you what exactly you have.,,both chamber and bore spec.

Sure it's a 30cal?,,Try the quick bullet point first into the bore test at the muzzle.

A 30-06 wouldn't be a bad find, but something like a 8mm BillyBob Imp Whelen maybe not so much.

 

[Absalom]

First, make sure it actually was a military 8mm Mauser action that was converted. Does the action have identifiable military markings?

Zastava in former Yugoslavia and the Czech factory at Brno later known as CZ made a gazillion standard Mauser actions and sold them commercially in the West post-war for being assembled into sporters, dimensioned for pretty much any caliber you desired.

 

[diyj98]

Without checking into it I took the owners word for it, but am thinking a bit about it, and it seems to me that 30-06 would be the proper caliber, because of the long action. It just seems to me the 308 action is shorter. I am concerned that the owner may be confused, or is it me?

There's no reason why you can't use a long action for a 308, but it's just wasted weight and bolt travel. As others have said, the best and safest way to tell the caliber is to do a casting of the chamber.

 

[Kurusu]

I saw a rifle today with a Mauser action. Originally it was an 8mm Mauser. I saw no caliber stamping, but the action had a stainless bbl put on it, and i was told it was 308 Winchester now. Without checking into it I took the owners word for it, but am thinking a bit about it, and it seems to me that 30-06 would be the proper caliber, because of the long action. It just seems to me the 308 action is shorter. I am concerned that the owner may be confused, or is it me?

I can only tell you that I have shot a Mauser 98K that was converted to .308.

 

[Absalom]

I can only tell you that I have shot a Mauser 98K that was converted to .308.

The 98k and variants in its original 8mm caliber became a standard rifle of the Israeli Defense Forces since even before independence. Nazi guns, plus pre- and post war Czech and FN production were the main sources.

When Israel adopted the FN-FAL in the 1950s, many of these, as Lobo alluded to above, were converted to .308 at Israeli arsenals and remained in service for decades longer. You still see them quite commonly in photos from the 1967 war, and they supposedly remained on reserve duty into the 1980s

Those FN-made BAR’s that were originally in both 8mm and .30-06, were also converted to .308, by the way, and adapted to FN FAL magazines.

 

[BB57]

Mauser 98s have long been chambered in shorter rounds, folks today thinking it's either not possible or some kind of sin.

The major difference between military Mauser 98s and commercial Mauser 98s is usually the safety and bolt shroud. The military Mauser 98s have a bolt shroud mounted safety lever that physically locks the striker back. These are normally replaced with a curved safety on a commercial or converted Mauser to accommodate a scope. The newer commercial Mausers tend to have a much cleaner bolt shroud with a sliding safety on the right side of the receiver.

-----

Zavodi Crveno Zastava made the M48 military version of the 98 Mauser and from 1970 onward made commercial 98 Mauser rifles and barreled actions. These Yugoslavian made Mausers are FN Mausers made on the machines bought from FN and moved Yugoslavia.

These Zastava M70s were sold over the years as the Interarms Mk X, Charles Daly Mauser, and Remington 798.

The Zastava M70 was also sold in barreled action and was the basis for a wide range of custom Mausers. Interarms stopped importing them in 1990 during the unpleasantness in Yugoslavia and the resulting arms embargo which not only prevented imports to Yugoslavia but stupidly enough also exports. Charles Daly picked them up after the arms embargo (Interarms was gone by then), and Remington

They had a 3.385" magazine box for the standard length cartridges, and a 3.385" magazine box with an insert in the front for the shorter cartridges like the .22-250 and .308 Win. They also had a magnum length action with a 3.6" long magazine box.

Interarms marketed the "Mark X Alaskan" chambered for 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag. Interarms also imported the Whitworth African express series rifle which was made by the Whitworth rifle Co in Manchester England but on the Zastava barreled action. This model was only chambered for 375 H&H, and 458 Win Mag.

The standard length Mark X sporting rifles were chambered for 22-250, 243, 25-06, 270, 7X57, 7mm rem Mag, 308, 30-06, and 300 Win Mag.

Interarms marketed them as the:
- Mark X Viscount with a plain walnut stock;
- Mark X Cavalier which had a stock with more figure Tenite grip and fore end caps and white line spacers; and
- the Mark X Mannlicher rifle with a full length stock, and butter knife bolt handle.

In 1985 Zastava started producing a mini-mauser designed for short cartridges including the .22 Hornet, .222, .223, and 7.62x39. Interarms called it the Mini Mark X. Zastava called it the M85 (not to be confused with the AKM clone of that same year), Charles Daly called it the Charles Daly Mini Mauser, and Remington called it the Remington 799.

Charles Daly used composite stocks on their rifles and Remington used laminate stocks and deleted the front sight.

CAI currently imports and markets the Zastava M70 and M85 under those model numbers. The stock checkering and finish leaves something to be desired on the CAI imported rifles, but the metal polish and blue is still superb.

----

Folks who are shocked that Remington sold a Mauser action rifle need to consider that Remington made Pattern 14 Enfields for the British, and M1917 Enfields for the US during WWI. The P13, P14 and M1917 were in essence Mauser 98 actions with some changes incorporated by the British. (Similarly, the M1903 was also a Mauser 98 ripoff with some changes to the striker and safety and a coned breech for improved feeding - but it was so close that the US had to pay royalties to Mauser.)

After the war Remington sold a sporting version of the M1917 as the Remington Model 30 beginning in 1921 and ending in 1940. It was replaced slightly improved Model 720 which was produced until 1948. So the first 27 years of Remington commercial bolt action rifles were based on the Mauser 98.

Even today it's estimated that about 1/4 off all bolt action rifles on the planet are or are derived from the Mauser action.

 

[diyj98]

Even today it's estimated that about 1/4 off all bolt action rifles on the planet are or are derived from the Mauser action.

I'd be shocked in the number wasn't higher than 1/4.

 

[DWalt]

I am assuming that the conversion involved rebarreling, as it would not be possible to use the original barrel as the bore diameter is far too large to use with a .308 or .30-'06. It is totally unnecessary to rechamber any military M98 barrel (if the bore is in good condition) as the 8x57JS Mauser is an excellent cartridge, fully the equal of a .30-'06, especially if handloaded to the velocity of German military cartridges. After WWII, many issue 8mm barrels on GI bringback M98 military acttions were rechambered to the 8x63mm (or 8mm-'06) caliber, essentially the .30-'06 case necked up to 8mm. It is a most excellent and potent large game cartridge. The Swedes had M98 military rifles chambered in a very similar (but not the same) 8x63mm cartridge, which is slightly fatter and more powerful than the 8mm-'06. They also had a machine gun in the same caliber.

Back in the late 1960s I bought a sporterized M98 Mauser in 8x57 for a very reasonable price. It was very well done, and the original military barrel was profiled to sporter dimensions. The bore was perfect. It shot excellent groups at 100 yards using WWII 8mm German military ammunition which was very cheap at that time. I still remember the difficulty I had drilling and tapping the scope mount holes in the receiver - very tough steel.

I still have a Belgian FN M98 commercial sporting rifle in .220 Swift from the early 1950s. The FN action is very similar to the German military M98, with a few refinements. Mine was designed specifically for the .220 Swift and no other caliber. It has the most elegant blued finish of any rifle I own (comparable to a Colt Python finish), but the stock is a little too fat and clubby for my taste, and too heavily checkered on the fore-end and grip. I have thought about having it re-stocked with a more pleasing design, but I don't want to destroy its originality.

 

[LVSteve]

I'd be shocked in the number wasn't higher than 1/4.

I wondered about that, but then I remembered the estimated 27 million Mosin Nagants, 3 million or so Carcano, various straight pulls, 17 million plus Enfields and all manner of Mannlicher type actions that were built. Many are still about. Many military Mausers went to the smelter because they were on the losing side. Commercial Mauser production is likely a drop in the bucket by comparison.

Of course, if the definition of "Mauser action" is made tight, i.e. Gewehr 98 length receiver, non-rotating extractor, controlled feed, then the 25% number becomes quite possible.

 

[DWalt]

I'd say that the U. S. 1914/1917 Enfield actions are essentially Mauser 98 actions, except they have the rear sight mounted on the rear of the action and cock on closing. The British Enfields are a bit different, locking up on the rear of the bolt and feeding from a removable box magazine. Nearly all modern bolt action sporting rifles are direct ancestors of the M98 design.

 

[Narragansett]

A conversion to 30-06 is easy enough to do on a std length 98. But as LVSteve points out, the back top edge of the recv'r ring is generally notched for the bullet point for easier loading. Many times the front rt edge of the loading port in the ring also for easy ejection of a loaded round.

Loading them into the magazine w/o notching the ring is certainly easy, just load one by one and bullet first to get by the ring.
The notch is to afford the use of the stripper clips in the rifle.
The slight notch in the front of the loading port is so emptying the rifle of loaded rounds, the lengthy things don't hang up in the port each time.

Empty brass is no problem of course.

It could be one of any of a basket full of 30cal rounds. Both factory chamberings and Improved rounds plus Wildcat numbers.

Standard bolt face,,or Magnum dimension?,,that can elliminate a few choices. Look at the feed rails and see if they have been altered/ground from their original spec. That would indicate conversion to a case much different than that orig chambered in the action.
Has the magazine box been altered,,lengthened at the front and or back to allow a longer round to be used?
The bolt stop is sometimes cut back to minimum for a greater bolt throw and the back of the box filed and milled out to get extra room.
The front is sometimes extended and the feed ramp shortened as a result.
These alterations would usually be in a Magnum conversion like 300H&H or the like.
You might be surprised what can be stuffed down into one of those standard 98's.

With no markings on it and only a say-so from the seller,,I'd want a chamber cast of some sort to look at.
It doesn't have to be anything special like those cast from Cerrosafe at this point.
A simple wax or 5min epoxy cast of the chamber and just a bit of the bore will be enough to tell you what exactly you have.,,both chamber and bore spec.

Sure it's a 30cal?,,Try the quick bullet point first into the bore test at the muzzle.

A 30-06 wouldn't be a bad find, but something like a 8mm BillyBob Imp Whelen maybe not so much.

Thanks for the info. I probably gave the wrong impression. I am not buying this, just something somebody showed me and said it was 308. I just thought the action looked a bit long for 308, when I was reflecting on it later. I have 4 30-06 rifles. Enough to last me the rest of my life

 

[Narragansett]

First, make sure it actually was a military 8mm Mauser action that was converted. Does the action have identifiable military markings?

Zastava in former Yugoslavia and the Czech factory at Brno later known as CZ made a gazillion standard Mauser actions and sold them commercially in the West post-war for being assembled into sporters, dimensioned for pretty much any caliber you desired.

I saw no markings on the receiver. Puzzled me a bit, but It was not my gun, or something I was buying, so I did not pull it out of the stock. It had what I beliebe was a gunsmith's name on it. I do not remember the name

 

[Narragansett]

Mauser 98s have long been chambered in shorter rounds, folks today thinking it's either not possible or some kind of sin.

The major difference between military Mauser 98s and commercial Mauser 98s is usually the safety and bolt shroud. The military Mauser 98s have a bolt shroud mounted safety lever that physically locks the striker back. These are normally replaced with a curved safety on a commercial or converted Mauser to accommodate a scope. The newer commercial Mausers tend to have a much cleaner bolt shroud with a sliding safety on the right side of the receiver.

-----

Zavodi Crveno Zastava made the M48 military version of the 98 Mauser and from 1970 onward made commercial 98 Mauser rifles and barreled actions. These Yugoslavian made Mausers are FN Mausers made on the machines bought from FN and moved Yugoslavia.

These Zastava M70s were sold over the years as the Interarms Mk X, Charles Daly Mauser, and Remington 798.

The Zastava M70 was also sold in barreled action and was the basis for a wide range of custom Mausers. Interarms stopped importing them in 1990 during the unpleasantness in Yugoslavia and the resulting arms embargo which not only prevented imports to Yugoslavia but stupidly enough also exports. Charles Daly picked them up after the arms embargo (Interarms was gone by then), and Remington

They had a 3.385" magazine box for the standard length cartridges, and a 3.385" magazine box with an insert in the front for the shorter cartridges like the .22-250 and .308 Win. They also had a magnum length action with a 3.6" long magazine box.

Interarms marketed the "Mark X Alaskan" chambered for 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag. Interarms also imported the Whitworth African express series rifle which was made by the Whitworth rifle Co in Manchester England but on the Zastava barreled action. This model was only chambered for 375 H&H, and 458 Win Mag.

The standard length Mark X sporting rifles were chambered for 22-250, 243, 25-06, 270, 7X57, 7mm rem Mag, 308, 30-06, and 300 Win Mag.

Interarms marketed them as the:
- Mark X Viscount with a plain walnut stock;
- Mark X Cavalier which had a stock with more figure Tenite grip and fore end caps and white line spacers; and
- the Mark X Mannlicher rifle with a full length stock, and butter knife bolt handle.

In 1985 Zastava started producing a mini-mauser designed for short cartridges including the .22 Hornet, .222, .223, and 7.62x39. Interarms called it the Mini Mark X. Zastava called it the M85 (not to be confused with the AKM clone of that same year), Charles Daly called it the Charles Daly Mini Mauser, and Remington called it the Remington 799.

Charles Daly used composite stocks on their rifles and Remington used laminate stocks and deleted the front sight.

CAI currently imports and markets the Zastava M70 and M85 under those model numbers. The stock checkering and finish leaves something to be desired on the CAI imported rifles, but the metal polish and blue is still superb.

----

Folks who are shocked that Remington sold a Mauser action rifle need to consider that Remington made Pattern 14 Enfields for the British, and M1917 Enfields for the US during WWI. The P13, P14 and M1917 were in essence Mauser 98 actions with some changes incorporated by the British. (Similarly, the M1903 was also a Mauser 98 ripoff with some changes to the striker and safety and a coned breech for improved feeding - but it was so close that the US had to pay royalties to Mauser.)

After the war Remington sold a sporting version of the M1917 as the Remington Model 30 beginning in 1921 and ending in 1940. It was replaced slightly improved Model 720 which was produced until 1948. So the first 27 years of Remington commercial bolt action rifles were based on the Mauser 98.

Even today it's estimated that about 1/4 off all bolt action rifles on the planet are or are derived from the Mauser action.

""" These are normally replaced with a curved safety on a commercial or converted Mauser to accommodate a scope."""

The safety modification was done for the scope

 

[Narragansett]

I am assuming that the conversion involved rebarreling, as it would not be possible to use the original barrel as the bore diameter is far too large to use with a .308 or .30-'06. It is totally unnecessary to rechamber any military M98 barrel (if the bore is in good condition) as the 8x57JS Mauser is an excellent cartridge, fully the equal of a .30-'06, especially if handloaded to the velocity of German military cartridges. After WWII, many issue 8mm barrels on GI bringback M98 military acttions were rechambered to the 8x63mm (or 8mm-'06) caliber, essentially the .30-'06 case necked up to 8mm. It is a most excellent and potent large game cartridge. The Swedes had M98 military rifles chambered in a very similar (but not the same) 8x63mm cartridge, which is slightly fatter and more powerful than the 8mm-'06. They also had a machine gun in the same caliber.

Back in the late 1960s I bought a sporterized M98 Mauser in 8x57 for a very reasonable price. It was very well done, and the original military barrel was profiled to sporter dimensions. The bore was perfect. It shot excellent groups at 100 yards using WWII 8mm German military ammunition which was very cheap at that time. I still remember the difficulty I had drilling and tapping the scope mount holes in the receiver - very tough steel.

I still have a Belgian FN M98 commercial sporting rifle in .220 Swift from the early 1950s. The FN action is very similar to the German military M98, with a few refinements. Mine was designed specifically for the .220 Swift and no other caliber. It has the most elegant blued finish of any rifle I own (comparable to a Colt Python finish), but the stock is a little too fat and clubby for my taste, and too heavily checkered on the fore-end and grip. I have thought about having it re-stocked with a more pleasing design, but I don't want to destroy its originality.

Yes stainless re barreled