9 vs 45

[EvilNuff]

My opinion is go with the 9mm and honestly to *me* it is a no-brainer. First off 9mm is just flat out cheaper. You will shoot more with 9mm than any other non 22LR load. This means you are allowing yourself more time to be a better shot.

Second 9mm with modern good defensive ammunition is absolutely fine as a defensive round. There are tons of threads and links and all the information you could ever want to compare the effects of 9mm vs .45. My opinion, formed by reading the information available, is that they are almost the same. (Assuming you use modern quality defensive ammunition.)

Third, mag capacity. In the M&Ps we are talking 10 vs 17 rounds. If you carry a spare mag that's 34 vs 20 rounds. That is a *huge* monumental difference. That difference in round count (IMO) more than makes up for any possible difference in the bullets effectiveness.

So really for me the comparison comes down to this. The *only* rounds that count are rounds that you are able to put on target.
Cheaper, 70% more rounds, easier to shoot...all these make 9mm the only option. I honestly don't see any place at all for .45 in a defensive handgun. (Hell if they were the same price I would still pick 9mm!)

 

[Lost Lake]

I like stopping power over quantity of bullets.

This is where we disagree I guess, but that's fine. I used to think that my .357mag was the only round I'd ever carry because in my mind it was the most powerful round in a modern handgun. The 125 grain bullet has some impressive gel numbers and I was mesmerized by them.

After reading a lot of reports from people that spend time researching these things, I realized every shooting is different and you cannot take past shootings and predict future events. You never know how a bullet will affect a person. If a .45 incapacitates a 400 pound madman in one shot, that DOES NOT mean it will surely take out a 100 pound lunatic in one shot.... maybe not in 10 shots. You can't make that claim with any bullet. Ever.

What I have read is that all these bullets basically do the same thing. They make holes. As long as those holes are deep enough, they have done their job.

My job is to make holes in the exact places they need to be to stop someone. I think the more shots I have, the better chances I have of hitting some vital part that will stop a bad guy.

So I'll take an extra 7 rounds of 9mm instead of the extra six hundreths (.06") of an inch of .45 sectional area.

 

[Moonman]

The REAL ANSWER is;

WWII GERMAN'S USED 9mm, We the 45ACP

We WON!!!!!

Case closed, if you can use a 45, use it. Cost of ammo doesn't count, round count doesn't count, TRIGGER CONTROL AND SIGHT ALIGNMENT DOES.

Lost Lake,

That FBI ammo report was from 1989 (45ACP vs 9MM)

A lot of ammo has changed in the last 22 years.

 

[Lost Lake]

Moonman,

Handguns didn't win the war....

The US had the 7.62mm and the .223, both MUCH smaller than the .45.

If I remember correctly, the Tommy Gun is a .45 and the MAC 10 is a .45 also. Now those two weapons are pretty devastating because of the numbers of bullets they can put out...

 

[Moonman]

Lost Lake,

WWII 1941-1945

45 ACP Handgun
45 ACP Thompson and 45 ACP GREASEGUN

30-06 M-1 GARAND Rifle
30 Cal CARBINE

 

[jcswi888]

Please don't ever let this thread end, it is my entertainment everyday.

 

[Lost Lake]

Yes the .223 wasn't in WW2, I'm just pointing out the weapons of choice for our troops (not much choice really, just give us something that works!).

Besides, in full army gear, you can carry spare mags pretty handily. Not so when you are in civilian attire.

Let's quit beating this dead horse, and agree some like chocolate and some like vanilla.

 

[Moonman]

Lost Lake,

THANK YOU AND OTHERS FOR THEIR SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY.

It was fun pulling your leg.

I would HIGHLY recommend not standing in front of the MUZZLE of any of them.

Sometimes you just must retreat and call for some AIR POWER ASSISTANCE.

 

[Lost Lake]

Sometimes you just must retreat and call for some AIR POWER ASSISTANCE.

Now this is off topic but back in my day we had the A-10 Warthog to cover our butts...

It has a 30mm gattling gun mounted in the nose that is capable of firing almost 4,000 rounds per minute.

30mm.... that's about 1 1/4" in diameter... at 65 rounds per second (per second!!!) it makes a braaaaaap sound that is unmistakable.

Between the Blackhawk and the Warthog, a troop on the ground is in dang good hands when the SHTF with his air support.... Without those guys in the sky though....

My eyes weren't good enough to be a pilot, my schooling was good enough to be a flight engineer but I said no. If I couldn't be the pilot I didn't want any of it. Probably stupid move #1 of many.

Again, off topic, but God Bless our troops fighting for us every day....

 

[Fat B]

The REAL ANSWER is;

WWII GERMAN'S USED 9mm, We the 45ACP

We WON!!!!!

Case closed, if you can use a 45, use it. Cost of ammo doesn't count, round count doesn't count, TRIGGER CONTROL AND SIGHT ALIGNMENT DOES.

Is that the reason we won? All this time I was thinking it was our superior industrialization, the ability to strike their homefront while ours remained virtually untouched, and huge mistakes by the Germans including overextending themselves by breaking their non-aggression treaty with the USSR.

I also thought Stalin's ruthlessness and cold heart contributed to the downfall of Germany through ordering victory with no retreat and his willingness to sacrifice millions of Russian soldiers in order to push the German army backwards. Or maybe it was the fact that Hitler turned into a crazy psycho. And this whole time it was the 45ACP!

LOl. Just having some fun.

The cost of ammo does count because the more I practice, the better I'll be at trigger control and sight alignment.

Shoot twice, reassess. Then go for the head. It drives me crazy when I see videos of police officers shooting as fast as they can, spraying and praying. It makes me wonder if some of these officers have had firearms training past slow fire at the range.

Then again, I've never been shot at so i type that while I'm sitting at my computer safe and sound critiquing what others are doing in life threatening situations.

 

[Moonman]

Fat B,

Shoot twice center mass, reassess, then try the PELVIS, it's a bigger target than the head with lots of area for blood

vessel damage and if the pelvis is broken, they're going down, and you keep shooting until the threat subsides.

 

[NICKTHEFISH]

AGREE TO DISAGREE

My job is to make holes in the exact places they need to be to stop someone. I think the more shots I have, the better chances I have of hitting some vital part that will stop a bad guy.

So I'll take an extra 7 rounds of 9mm instead of the extra six hundreths (.06") of an inch of .45 sectional area.

I guess you do have a point but i still love 45cal! I am a pretty good shot!

 

[jhallnv]

The REAL ANSWER is;

WWII GERMAN'S USED 9mm, We the 45ACP

We WON!!!!!

Case closed, if you can use a 45, use it. Cost of ammo doesn't count, round count doesn't count, TRIGGER CONTROL AND SIGHT ALIGNMENT DOES.

Lost Lake,

That FBI ammo report was from 1989 (45ACP vs 9

A lot of ammo has changed in the last 22 years.

Are we really supposed to believe that everyone on the battlefield were shooting pistols at each other.

 

[jhallnv]

The 9mm is more than adequate and underrated. I believe it's got a bad stigma by People who don't know much about it, other than it looks much smaller than a .45 therefore it's no good. With quite a few calibers filling the gap from 9mm to say .44magmun. the 9mm may seem small, but it's got quite a bite!

I see the same thing with .22 riffles. They are way underrated and people think the .22 is only good for taking out squirrels. I've seen coyotes and javelinas go down just as effectively with the "puny little" .22.

9mm for me, even though I'm loving my new M&P40C!

I agree with you. Here in the US we seem to be obsessed with power, but what really matters is shot placement, and being able to hit what you are aiming at. The .22 is much more effective than people think. Diameter of the bullet has nothing to do with it. The 357 mag is a "9mm" bullet yet it is one of the best man stoppers on the market. If we are to believe that bullet size it the only thing that matters, then the 357 mag would be much less effective than the 45, which anyone in the know knows is untrue.