Pizza Bob
Member
The original impetus for this post was rather self-serving. I read a post by Vladislav about his search for moon clips for his 929, that would work with Geco ammunition (he lives in Switzerland). He was originally searching for EDM cut, split arm design type clips. Those are what I use for my 627-4PC (.38 Super). Often times, when you find clips listed for the 8-shot 9 mm, it also stipulates that they will work for .38 Super.
The original search was unsuccessful, however, Vlad did find that EZMoonclip was now making their Rimz poly moon clip for the 8-shot 9 mm Smith. He felt that it worked pretty well and to demonstrate that he posted a video in the thread. I was amazed at how rigidly they held his 9 mm cartridges. A little light bulb went off in the back of my brain. "Hey, I bet these would work for .38 Super too."
In my original search for the perfect moon clip for my .38 Super, I tried four different clips with my brass of choice (in this case Starline), and found, just like Little Red Riding Hood, that some were too tight, some were too loose and the only one that was just right were the split arm ones that I described above.
A little side note about what constitutes "just right". If you are just using your 929 as a range gun, then fitment of the cartridge to the clip isn't critical, as long as it isn't too difficult to load or unload the clip. If, however, speed and ease of loading is important, as it would be in a practical gun game, where you are loading on the clock, then fitment becomes critical. The cartridges cannot be too loose in the clip creating cartridge flop, wherein, when looked at from the side, the top cartridges are actually resting on the next lower row…
Left: Too much flop / Right: Just right
The cartridges need to be held rigidly enough that they can be easily inserted into the charge holes in the cylinder – but still have just a little play so that they self-align to a degree. This is unlike loading a 25/625/325 which will work well with any clip regardless of fit – six big holes, a 230 grain round nose bullet, and a short case length means .45 ACP wheelguns practically load themselves. The 8-shot .357/9 mm guns are a whole different ballgame.
Being excited about my potential discovery, I fired off a communication to Denny Bennett, owner of EZMoonclips, told him that I wanted to try his 929 clip with .38 Super ammo, and much to his credit he sent me a clip for T&E. Understand that he really stood very little to gain from this as there were less than a thousand 627-4PC's made, so this would address a very small niche.
The extractor grooves of the 9 mm and the .38 Super differ by only .03 mm, but both Dennis and I missed the obvious – the .38 Super has a vestigial rim. Not important with metal clips due to how thin they are. Very important to the polymer clips as they are thick and actually have a rebate cut in them that surrounds the case head – the case head sits flush with the poly clips, while it extends above the clip with the metal clips. Doh!
Rebated loading slots
But when the clip arrived, I decided to try it anyway. All eight rounds of 38 Super snapped into place and were held as rigidly as the 9's were in Vlad's video. I inserted the loaded clip into the gun successfully. Almost home – and then attempted to close the cylinder. It was a disappointing no-go.
Not done with the idea yet. Since it seemed the rim was the sticking-point, what if I tried .38 Super Comp? Which is essentially a rimless .38 Super, as far as exterior dimensions go. Here is how that turned out…
This would work for range use, but comes up just a little bit short for competition use. I really think that the miniscule difference in extractor groove diameter is the culprit for allowing just a smidgen too much flop.
At this point I wouldn't deem my experiment a total flop (pun intended), but it didn't accomplish my desired end.
But I don't want to end this missive here (yeah, I can almost hear the collective groan) because what we do have with the polymer moon clips is a terrific clip for those of you that currently have, or are exploring buying, a 929.
At the matches I attend I hear stories of the problems with 929's regarding what combination ammo and clip seem to work. My gunsmith, who is a GM in Revolver Division in USPSA shoots a 929, so I asked him what he used. His response: A custom made .040" clip specially cut for R-P brass. I showed him the RIMZ clip. He loaded it up with his match ammo and was impressed. It was not quite as rigid as his set-up, but pretty darn close and at half the cost per clip. Given the thickness of the RIMZ clip he was a little concerned with clearance between the cartridge head and the recoil shield. He measured it and it had less than .0005" difference than the custom clips.
Here's the true beauty of the RIMZ clip – it is not ammo picky. I tried it with three different headstamps – R-P / Speer / Fed AE – sorry I didn't have any Winchester. Also remember that Vlad shows RIMZ loaded with GECO, which is what started this whole ball of wax. Here are the three I tried…
R-P
Speer
Fed AE (Sorry no flash on this one)
All would be suitable for competition. It does seem to hold the Federal the firmest, but any of them would work. I hesitate to say that it would probably work just as well with mixed headstamp brass.
The cost of these is generally less than the metal clips, in some cases by as much as half. Also factor in that no special tools are needed to load and unload the clips. These are just the ticket for those shooters "cutting their moon clip teeth" on a 929, as well as experienced shooters who are not quite happy with their current choice of headstamp/clip. Definitely worth trying.
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Ezmoonclip in any way. The only recompense was Dennis' supplying of the clip for T&E. This is written based on my experience with the product as described. Your results may differ.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
The original search was unsuccessful, however, Vlad did find that EZMoonclip was now making their Rimz poly moon clip for the 8-shot 9 mm Smith. He felt that it worked pretty well and to demonstrate that he posted a video in the thread. I was amazed at how rigidly they held his 9 mm cartridges. A little light bulb went off in the back of my brain. "Hey, I bet these would work for .38 Super too."
In my original search for the perfect moon clip for my .38 Super, I tried four different clips with my brass of choice (in this case Starline), and found, just like Little Red Riding Hood, that some were too tight, some were too loose and the only one that was just right were the split arm ones that I described above.
A little side note about what constitutes "just right". If you are just using your 929 as a range gun, then fitment of the cartridge to the clip isn't critical, as long as it isn't too difficult to load or unload the clip. If, however, speed and ease of loading is important, as it would be in a practical gun game, where you are loading on the clock, then fitment becomes critical. The cartridges cannot be too loose in the clip creating cartridge flop, wherein, when looked at from the side, the top cartridges are actually resting on the next lower row…
Left: Too much flop / Right: Just right
The cartridges need to be held rigidly enough that they can be easily inserted into the charge holes in the cylinder – but still have just a little play so that they self-align to a degree. This is unlike loading a 25/625/325 which will work well with any clip regardless of fit – six big holes, a 230 grain round nose bullet, and a short case length means .45 ACP wheelguns practically load themselves. The 8-shot .357/9 mm guns are a whole different ballgame.
Being excited about my potential discovery, I fired off a communication to Denny Bennett, owner of EZMoonclips, told him that I wanted to try his 929 clip with .38 Super ammo, and much to his credit he sent me a clip for T&E. Understand that he really stood very little to gain from this as there were less than a thousand 627-4PC's made, so this would address a very small niche.
The extractor grooves of the 9 mm and the .38 Super differ by only .03 mm, but both Dennis and I missed the obvious – the .38 Super has a vestigial rim. Not important with metal clips due to how thin they are. Very important to the polymer clips as they are thick and actually have a rebate cut in them that surrounds the case head – the case head sits flush with the poly clips, while it extends above the clip with the metal clips. Doh!
Rebated loading slots
But when the clip arrived, I decided to try it anyway. All eight rounds of 38 Super snapped into place and were held as rigidly as the 9's were in Vlad's video. I inserted the loaded clip into the gun successfully. Almost home – and then attempted to close the cylinder. It was a disappointing no-go.
Not done with the idea yet. Since it seemed the rim was the sticking-point, what if I tried .38 Super Comp? Which is essentially a rimless .38 Super, as far as exterior dimensions go. Here is how that turned out…
This would work for range use, but comes up just a little bit short for competition use. I really think that the miniscule difference in extractor groove diameter is the culprit for allowing just a smidgen too much flop.
At this point I wouldn't deem my experiment a total flop (pun intended), but it didn't accomplish my desired end.
But I don't want to end this missive here (yeah, I can almost hear the collective groan) because what we do have with the polymer moon clips is a terrific clip for those of you that currently have, or are exploring buying, a 929.
At the matches I attend I hear stories of the problems with 929's regarding what combination ammo and clip seem to work. My gunsmith, who is a GM in Revolver Division in USPSA shoots a 929, so I asked him what he used. His response: A custom made .040" clip specially cut for R-P brass. I showed him the RIMZ clip. He loaded it up with his match ammo and was impressed. It was not quite as rigid as his set-up, but pretty darn close and at half the cost per clip. Given the thickness of the RIMZ clip he was a little concerned with clearance between the cartridge head and the recoil shield. He measured it and it had less than .0005" difference than the custom clips.
Here's the true beauty of the RIMZ clip – it is not ammo picky. I tried it with three different headstamps – R-P / Speer / Fed AE – sorry I didn't have any Winchester. Also remember that Vlad shows RIMZ loaded with GECO, which is what started this whole ball of wax. Here are the three I tried…
R-P
Speer
Fed AE (Sorry no flash on this one)
All would be suitable for competition. It does seem to hold the Federal the firmest, but any of them would work. I hesitate to say that it would probably work just as well with mixed headstamp brass.
The cost of these is generally less than the metal clips, in some cases by as much as half. Also factor in that no special tools are needed to load and unload the clips. These are just the ticket for those shooters "cutting their moon clip teeth" on a 929, as well as experienced shooters who are not quite happy with their current choice of headstamp/clip. Definitely worth trying.
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Ezmoonclip in any way. The only recompense was Dennis' supplying of the clip for T&E. This is written based on my experience with the product as described. Your results may differ.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
