9mm Shield questions

[DrakeOwens]

I've been asked to look for a first handgun for a friend of mine who wishes to use it as a concealed carry piece. I think that the 9mm Shield would be a good choice for her. There are a couple of things that I'd like to know more about first. The Shield comes in three flavors, standard with a thumb safety, standard without a thumb safety and the Performance Center model. I live in California and I don't know if all versions can be purchased here. The main problem most people seem to have with the Shield is the trigger. An Apex kit is $150 plus installation whereas the Performance Center model has an improved trigger and only costs $60 more than the standard model. I don't like the fiber optic sights for a concealed carry piece but it's a minor quibble. If I can get the Performance Center model here in California that probably would be my first choice. If I can't then my second choice would be a standard Shield without the thumb safety then get a trigger kit and c'mon the Glock 43 doesn't have a thumb safety and is sold in California(I don't mind rational laws but California has a real bad case of stupid). Last choice is with a thumb safety with a trigger kit. Is Apex the only one available or can I get one from S&W? What if I sent a new one to S&W for "repair"? I'd happily pay for a trigger "adjustment"! I still think the Shield is the best choice but I'd appreciate advice, thanks!

P.S. What does M&P stand for?

 

[kilyung]

"Military & Police"

 

[shakyshoot]

M&P stands for Military and Police. There is only one Shield on the Cal roster and it's this one: Product: Smith & Wesson M&P SHIELD™ 9mm CA Compliant

It has a thumb safety and a magazine disconnect, as well as the "shark fin" loaded chamber indicator. The reason the no thumb safety version is not on the roster is not because it has no thumb safety, it's because S&W has only submitted this model for approval. Don't expect ANY new pistol models on the roster, because they require that all new submissions include non-existant technology. (microstamping)
I suggest taking your friend to a range that rents firearms and letting her try several. Many women like the Shield, but many women also have a hard time racking the slide.
Try the trigger and give it a few hundred rounds before thinking about upgrading. My stock Shield trigger is JUST FINE, and I have no desire to change it. I've seen so many posts on here to the effect that "I just got a new Shield. Put the Apex trigger in, did this that and the other thing, now can't wait to try shooting it." Don't be that guy.

 

[JohnRoc65]

The standard Shield trigger is right at about 6.5 lbs out of the box.

That's what you want for a concealed carry gun.

 

[ChiefStealth]

One common complaint with the Shield is the relative stiffness of the recoil springs. For some people, the slide can be difficult to pull all the way back. I recommend that you let your friend try out the Shield. Try out moving that slide. I have a friend that rejected the Shield because of the slide stiffness.

 

[coachray]

I think the shield would be great. As others have stated the slide is stiffer to rack, and the 8 round magazine could be stiffer to fully load. I agree that trying one first would be better.

 

[Ranger17]

I noticed on a couple Shields that I held at stores, I had some difficulty with the slide (well, one gun was still covered in shipping grease/oil so that didn't help lol). But others were fine. My new Shield (PC model) is no problem racking, my wife can handle it fine as well. She's not much of a shooter, but actually liked the Shield compared to my full size and compact MP's.

I agree, the best option for someone new to guns is to go try some out at a range. There can be a difference between holding one on a store floor, and running some rounds thru it at the range.
And yes the mags on the Shield can be stiff (I'll make the assumption most single stack mags can do the same), so a mag loader (Uplula) is a huge helper. After all, if one doesn't enjoy spending time with their gun and at the range, they wont practice and improve.

 

[bigwheelzip]

She should weigh her own options based on what gun she can operate and shoot properly, and also what works with her anticipated method of carry. For someone not dedicated, a smaller firearm than a Shield requires less modification to wardrobe and thus more likely carried.

Something like a Sig P238 is small enough to always be carried, and is one of the easiest slides to operate.

 

[DrakeOwens]

Thank you all for your advice. I've learned a lot this week about the entire subject of concealed carry handguns. My own shooting is with my beloved S&W Model 41 7 3/8" with muzzle brake made in 1958. I go to the range twice a week and don't own any other firearm. Some of the things I've learned. First, microstamping(thank you Shakyshoot), what can I say except "are you kidding me?". Second, wise folks who think that I'll probably find that the stock Shield is perfectly fine(okay, I might try Taurus grips anyway, for just $20 it's no big deal). The third point about the stiff slide I don't think will be a problem. The lady in question is a rather big cowgirl who spends most weekends with my aunt competing with cutting horses(BTW my aunt is 86, it takes her 10 minutes to get on her horse but once she's on look out).

The last issue is probably the most important of all. I go to the range twice a week weather permitting. My 41 will see well over 10,000 rounds this year. Sadly I see so many who have big(always big), expensive handguns and they come to the range once or twice and they think they know what they are doing. They can barely hit the target and those are the ones that even manage to go to the range at all. The lesson is simple, if one wants to be proficient enough with a handgun to carry it you have to be committed to practicing, a LOT. Very few are willing to spend that sort of time and money. Sadly this is also true of some members of the law enforcement community. I see some of our local police all the time and they are very good but many others only practice on training days and it shows. Last year four local officers were involved in an incident where, at 5 yards, 54 shots were fired at an unmoving man and the officers only managed 20 hits. Man sized target, 5 yards. The bottom line from all this is that I'm going to have a sit down with my friend and I'm going to explain to her that she should only buy a handgun if she is willing to put in the time and ammo cost to become truly proficient(that very much includes taking lessons). She wouldn't think herself proficient on a horse if she only rode every 3 months and the same is true of handguns.

Thank you all again for your advice. I'd love to hear any other comments you might have.

Edit: While I was writing this several other posts appeared. To bigwheelzip, many years ago I owned a P238 and I loved it but like so many other quality handguns they are no longer available in California.

 

[hstrawn]

One common complaint with the Shield is the relative stiffness of the recoil springs. For some people, the slide can be difficult to pull all the way back. I recommend that you let your friend try out the Shield. Try out moving that slide. I have a friend that rejected the Shield because of the slide stiffness.

I fully agree here and with others as to the stiffness of the springs and difficulty in racking the slide BUT mine has significantly loosened up after 500 rounds or so, therefore the performance of one in the store versus one that has been shot may be quite different.

 

[PaKnH3aT4U]

Stainless steel RSA

Stainless steel recoil spring assembly. I dropped one in my girls, much smoother/easier to rack the slide. She loves her shield 9. Been nothing but reliable, just a FYI guys. Highly recommend.

 

[Targets Guy]

If she can handle the slide then go for it. BUT get a mag loader. With that the Shield is near perfect.

 

[DrakeOwens]

Stainless steel recoil spring assembly. I dropped one in my girls, much smoother/easier to rack the slide. She loves her shield 9. Been nothing but reliable, just a FYI guys. Highly recommend.

Can you remember the manufacturer, part # and where you got it from? Thanks!

 

[MMT]

A small single-stack handgun is not a good idea to get as a first handgun. Not starting on a full size or at a minimum G19 sized pistol is not conducive to successfully learning how to use a handgun. This is even more true for women as people always recommend them get a tiny handgun, which is the most difficult type to shoot; since they are generally less physically strong and have smaller hands than men it makes it even more difficult to learn the fundamentals. Even though a full-size or compact sized handgun will likely be too large to conceal it is really where everyone needs to start out on.

 

[PaKnH3aT4U]

Can you remember the manufacturer, part # and where you got it from? Thanks![/

Smith and Wesson Shield Stainless Steel Guide Rod Assembly - Stainless Steel Guide Rods

 

[Bad_Andy]

A couple of things to consider.... depending on what county she lives in, she should check with the county sheriff and/or her CCW instructor. You may not be able to put an Apex trigger kit, or make any other internal adjustments. Some counties may allow it, others strictly prohibit it.

Also the G43 (and G42) are off roster. They are not available for sale in California.

As others have said, I would take her to the range, and let her try a few different rental guns to see what SHE likes. While I love my shield, there is no way of knowing if it would work for her. Also, if she is new to guns, she would be wise to take a few classes, in addition to her CCW class.

 

[kramden]

I have a Shield and a G43. Shield is my favorite but the Glock is a little nicer for CC (its abit smaller)

 

[lrmnut]

I called S&W this week about a new trigger for my FS M&P they said $150
I don't know how it compare's to the Apex kit but it keeps the warranty intact I was actually wonder how it compared has anyone had S&W do a trigger job for them?