9mm with 158 or 165gr bullets?

[Nevada Ed]

I have loaded 115,124, 147 and just posted my plated Xtreme 135gr finals.

Has any one loaded the larger 158gr or the even larger 165gr 9mm bullets yet ?
With the reduced volume, will Ball powders be the way to go?
Thanks for any info.

 

[reddog81]

I've used 3.0 grains bullseye with a Lyman 358311 158 grain bullet. 3.0 was the min load in a old Lyman manual. 3.5 was the max load.

3.0 didn't always cycle the best in my gen3 Glock but worked most the time and functioned in other guns. In the limited testing I've done accuracy was always good. These loads basically turn your 9mm into a 38 special. I'm sure someone will say it's pointless and why would you do such a thing, but it can definitely work.

 

[Alk8944]

I'm sure someone will say it's pointless and why would you do such a thing, but it can definitely work.

Might as well agree with this, I have said it several times before as Nevada Ed isn't the first one to ask this. You want to shoot a .38 Spcl. then shoot one. At least you won't have cycling problems with the revolver.

 

[rockquarry]

A 160 grain round nose is the absolute maximum, and I'm taking about cast bullets here. Plated? I'm guessing they might raise pressure at least slightly in comparison with a cast bullet, but I'm not a ballistics expert.

With a very heavy bullet, just a slight deviation in seating depth could raise pressures to the danger point quickly. The case capacity on the 9mm is pretty well used up with a 160 grain bullet. You're also at the point of diminished returns when you consider that you may not be able to safely achieve a useful velocity for the cartridge.

I've worked with heavy bullets in the 9mm and have found a 150 grain round nose .38 Special cast bullet to be about a practical maximum weight for accuracy and velocity.

 

[flyrobb]

Ran across this article. Reloading Heavy Bullets in 9mm Luger - Shooting Times
Just curious, is there a specific reason or purpose for using that heavy a bullet?

 

[rockquarry]

Most of that article is based on QuickLOAD numbers; a crude guide at best. Not exactly what you want to be working with at the outer limit of safety, not to mention some feeble velocities. Many of the loads probably wouldn't cycle an action with 100% reliability.

 

[reddog81]

Might as well agree with this, I have said it several times before as Nevada Ed isn't the first one to ask this. You want to shoot a .38 Spcl. then shoot one. At least you won't have cycling problems with the revolver.

How many 17 round revolvers are out there? How do you put a suppressor on a revolver? Those are just 2 of the reasons I was interested.

 

[fredj338]

A lot of the guys i shoot idpa with are running 158-165. The recoil is stupid soft at 9mm minor. like shooting 38sp wc. I use WST or ReDot, but vv310 & 320 work well as do any of the faster powders, ball or flake. Accuracy in my 1911 is extremely good, but i have gone back to 147gr for 9mm minor. I just like the recoil impulse a bit better with a heavy slide. In a Glock, the 158gr + are really easy to shoot fast.

 

[fredj338]

Ran across this article. Reloading Heavy Bullets in 9mm Luger - Shooting Times
Just curious, is there a specific reason or purpose for using that heavy a bullet?

Very light recoil & almost no blast, very quiet. The affect allows extremely fast split times. In my G26, very fun to shoot.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Two reasons for bullets that heavy in 9mm :

1. Aforementioned gamer loads for minimum recoil/ flip at a specific power factor.

2. Suppressed use ( aka silencer ).


If you are doing one of those, you are purposefully seeking specialized ammo for specific purpose, and will work out those details to reach an end.

If you're not doing one of those two things, don't bother, and just use common 147gr .

 

[Forrest r]

Or how about simply using the same bullet for all your 38spl/357/38 super/9mm plinking needs.

Decades ago I used to cast the lyman 358311 158gr rn bullet making piles of them. I'd size them to .358" and run them in every 35cal firearm I owned.

Paper, beverage cans, shotgun shells, clay targets, dirt clods @ 10 paces or anything else couldn't tell the difference.

 

[Rogeronimo]

The one thing that grabbed my attention is the use of ball powders. They will spike when compressed, so my input would be to simply keep this in mind when working up loads. I like the short cut extruded varieties that Vihtavuori offers.

 

[colt_saa]

I have been loading 158 grain plated TC Extreme projectiles in 9MM Luger for about a decade now. A group of us got a stupid good deal on these but we had to buy a pallet.

The reason of course is suppressed fire.

I have been loading these 158s with 231 and getting great results. They move out at roughly 950 FPS from the handguns, just like the IMI 158s, which makes them about 100 FPS faster than the Fiocchi 158 offering.

Recently I got several thousand X-treme 165 plated RN to work with. Using a nice charge of AA#7 these are VERY quite at about 900 FPS from the hand guns. I did not chronograph any of these loads from the SMG.

 

[H Richard]

I do like the Horandy 147gr. Very accurate and soft shooting. The 147 Coated (Bayou) shoot nearly the same.

 

[Forrest r]

Boy are you guys spoiled!!!

 

[Nevada Ed]

A Pallet load !!
Mercy.

 

[Wee Hooker]

I've found a few of my pistols wont shoot 147 gr projectiles well. ( Barrel twist rate is the suspect here.) I don't think I'd experiment with anything heavier. If I had to pick one bullet weight to feed them all, I would go with 130 gr.
Of course, your needs may vary.

 

[Duckford]

Very interesting subject. Bullet weight and sectional density offer superior performance in the terminal ballistic sense, so hollow points of heavier weights could offer superior performance. It also allows the 9mm to be a better choice for some hunting, especially with a carbine, and subsonic certainly has its advantages, especially if all this talk of can restrictions being scrapped turns true instead of a fairy tail. Most of all, its fun to throw extremes at a cartridge and see what happens.

Unlike Mr. Wee Hooker, my problems have come from stabilizing 115 grain bullets in my 16 inch barrel Uzi. Since it is a strong gun, and can handle, if not prefer the higher pressure ammunition, it would be interesting to see what these big boys could do, safely maxed of course. My carbine has no recoil issues, so a stronger load would be ideal.

Heavy bullet/subsonic pistol rounds are fascinating to me, and I've had very good luck with my 45 ACP projects, throwing 255 Keith's at 1070fps and 300 grain flat nose at 950 fps out of my Tommy gun, subsonic, powerful, accurate, and pleasant to shoot. I'll have to give the Uzi a go at .355's extremes as well.

 

[fredj338]

The one thing that grabbed my attention is the use of ball powders. They will spike when compressed, so my input would be to simply keep this in mind when working up loads. I like the short cut extruded varieties that Vihtavuori offers.

Not sure where you heard this but it is NOT a general fact but powder specific. Burn rate has a bigger affect on compression than being flake or ball or stick.

 

[flyrobb]

Very light recoil & almost no blast, very quiet. The affect allows extremely fast split times. In my G26, very fun to shoot.

Peaked my interest now. Bet my G19 would like them as well.