fredj338
Member
I like the recoil impulse in a Glocks but in my heavy slide 1911, it feels sluggish, so back to the 147gr. The 160gr from Bayou are very accurate. Nothing wrong with the Xtreme 165gr either.
Last edited:
9mm with 158 or 165gr bullets?
- Thread starter Nevada Ed
- Start date
I like the recoil impulse in a Glocks but in my heavy slide 1911, it feels sluggish, so back to the 147gr. The 160gr from Bayou are very accurate. Nothing wrong with the Xtreme 165gr either.
Rogeronimo
Member
Norma reloading manual No. 1, page 98, paragraph 2, 1st sentence.
fredj338
Member
So that would be specific to Norma powders, not all ball powders. There are few general statements in reloading that follow all the variables available. You do not see this admonition in other manuals. Powder compression, in general, is burn rate & even case size specific. Just keeping it real.
Last edited:
OP
Thanks all, for all the information and pictures, posted.
I don't shoot comp. any more and for some odd reason there is only one
long barrel XD9, in the whole family's arsenal.
There are 800fps loads that I have found, some accurate, some not
so it looks like I might not need to try those heavy weight bullets
out in our short barrel pistols, after all.
Thanks for the help and advise.
I don't shoot comp. any more and for some odd reason there is only one
long barrel XD9, in the whole family's arsenal.
There are 800fps loads that I have found, some accurate, some not
so it looks like I might not need to try those heavy weight bullets
out in our short barrel pistols, after all.
Thanks for the help and advise.
Rogeronimo
Member
Actually, Norma doesn't offer a ball powder, but they are in the powder business and have earned their strong opinion on the subject. I'm just sharing published information on the subject. As real as it gets.
fredj338
Member
I understand they do not offer ball powder. What you are sharing is the opinion of the guy that put the book together. Find that opinion in ANY other reloading manual. Again, few blanket statements are true in the vast realm of reloading.
Rogeronimo
Member
I agree, I don't know the credentials of the author, and this is certainly a hotter topic than I anticipated ... Noone else makes Norma's bold statement. The OP pondered small case volume, overweight bulluts, and ball powders, and the controversial opinion came to mind.
fredj338
Member
I agree, I don't know the credentials of the author, and this is certainly a hotter topic than I anticipated ... Noone else makes Norma's bold statement. The OP pondered small case volume, overweight bulluts, and ball powders, and the controversial opinion came to mind.
Just about anything you put into a 9mm case with a 160gr+ bullet is going to suffer some compression, no way around it. Waaaaay too many of us doing it to believe a statement by one guy in a manual. They are guides, not bibles. Lots of nebulous statements in reloading manuals.
m657
Member
"Very light recoil & almost no blast, very quiet."
not what I'd expect certainly....
interesting thread on a subject I really don't care to explore myself.
I've found I just don't care for 147g 9mm loads in any recipe I've tried, in 4 different pistols.
Given the astounding variety of unexplored recipes I've yet to get around to trying, it's nice to see what others have done.
not what I'd expect certainly....
interesting thread on a subject I really don't care to explore myself.
I've found I just don't care for 147g 9mm loads in any recipe I've tried, in 4 different pistols.
Given the astounding variety of unexplored recipes I've yet to get around to trying, it's nice to see what others have done.
Just curious what's wrong with 147gr ?
OP
The 147 works great at 800-830fps with Red Dot and HS-6 for me. Unique and HS-6 will match factory fps and accuracy.
As for the compressed ball powder, thing.....
Back in 1977 the was "the complete book of practical handloading" by John Wootters.
I believe, some where in that book, the dangers of compressed loads of ball powder can be dangerous, is mentioned.
I am too old to go through the whole book to find it, if this is the book........... but I did read about this in some article, some where, in my readings, over the years.
Generally, ball powders are at their maximum, way before they get to a compressed loading. None of my 9mm or 38 special loads come close to getting near my bullets.
Now SR4756 and IMR4227 will max out in some of my 9mm loads tested but they are so slow that they only reach standard loadings, for me, if lucky..........
but w231, CFE and HS-6 are still down there, some where, in the case, with my loadings.
As for the compressed ball powder, thing.....
Back in 1977 the was "the complete book of practical handloading" by John Wootters.
I believe, some where in that book, the dangers of compressed loads of ball powder can be dangerous, is mentioned.
I am too old to go through the whole book to find it, if this is the book........... but I did read about this in some article, some where, in my readings, over the years.
Generally, ball powders are at their maximum, way before they get to a compressed loading. None of my 9mm or 38 special loads come close to getting near my bullets.
Now SR4756 and IMR4227 will max out in some of my 9mm loads tested but they are so slow that they only reach standard loadings, for me, if lucky..........
but w231, CFE and HS-6 are still down there, some where, in the case, with my loadings.
Rogeronimo
Member
I actually run flakes in my 9mm ... Herco for 147gn and 800X for a compressed 124gn load. I believe it was Roy Weatherby who worked closely with Norma to develop some of the stiffest magnums we have to choose from. It would be pure speculation to assume that his R&D uncovered some unfavorable dynamics with certain powders. It would be just as plausible to assume that the negative press was simple marketing aimed at American competition. Nonetheless, the opinion is out there, and you're no stranger to it. I completely agree that faster burners will overpressure before this becomes anything to consider.
m657
Member
"Just curious what's wrong with 147gr ?"
not making that claim, just noting personal preference....
then again maybe the loads were just a bit on the upper end of the published range & not friendly to my use.
I've labored long & hard to get personal 9mm reloads to be reliable as well as accurate in a variety of pistols.
While not spending much range time on paper to actually SEE grouping, the 8" falling plates at 50' should help tell what I'm after.
If I can run the 6 plate rack a dozen times with 115/124 and then miss most of the next 50 shots with 147 I'm not doing something right.
What's right, is that particular batch of 147 reloads is about gone and I don't plan on getting more. Using P35/P229/PPX/ that give me otherwise great results, I'm satisfied to not take time for further exploration of 147 for my own use.
not making that claim, just noting personal preference....
then again maybe the loads were just a bit on the upper end of the published range & not friendly to my use.
I've labored long & hard to get personal 9mm reloads to be reliable as well as accurate in a variety of pistols.
While not spending much range time on paper to actually SEE grouping, the 8" falling plates at 50' should help tell what I'm after.
If I can run the 6 plate rack a dozen times with 115/124 and then miss most of the next 50 shots with 147 I'm not doing something right.
What's right, is that particular batch of 147 reloads is about gone and I don't plan on getting more. Using P35/P229/PPX/ that give me otherwise great results, I'm satisfied to not take time for further exploration of 147 for my own use.
fredj338
Member
The compression issues of ball powder back then was in rifle loads & the loss of air space which could result in a hangfire or misfire. Think 458winmag & first ball powder loads.
fredj338
Member
Maybe just an issue with your exact loads. Waaay too many competition guys are running 147gr + heavier. Run at low 9mm minor vel, recoil is noticeably softer.
m657
Member
"Maybe just an issue with your exact loads. Waaay too many competition guys are running 147gr + heavier. Run at low 9mm minor vel, recoil is noticeably softer". I may yet get to that approach, thanks.
Recently have been sending a lot of 10mm lead down range.
Don't want to highjack the OP thread here, other than note there are some similar fundamentals in reloading different recipes.
Given 155 RN .401 and certain recipes they shine in my own use compared to the 147 9mm or the 180g 10mm.
Recently have been sending a lot of 10mm lead down range.
Don't want to highjack the OP thread here, other than note there are some similar fundamentals in reloading different recipes.
Given 155 RN .401 and certain recipes they shine in my own use compared to the 147 9mm or the 180g 10mm.
Similar threads
