A Different Patton Gun

[Texas Star]

I am reading Gen. George Patton's memoirs, and he mentioned another general bringing him a new winter coat and a .38 with pearl grips.

Yes, that was Patton writing, and he said, "Pearl", not ivory!

I'm guessing that his benefactor had read news stories about him liking pearl-handled guns, and didn't know that Patton had made a disparaging remark about pearl grips and who was likely to own them. I hope that he was gracious enough to accept the gift without being too nasty.

Does anyone know what this ".38 pistol" was? That's how he referred to it; no make or model or barrel length.

T-Star

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

There is a photo of him wearing a Colt Detective Special .38 on his right hip, but I believe the stocks were wood. Perhaps, knowing his disdain for pearl, he just swapped them out sometime after receiving the revolver? Just my conjecture of course. There was a list of Gen. Patton's guns in a biography of him, but I can't place it at the moment. Why not google "Gen. George Patton's guns"?

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[M29since14]

I believe that is correct. I think Patton did replace the stocks with something else but can't remember for sure.

His old friend Gen. Joyce also either delivered or sent a pistol to him during the war, for reasons I don't think were ever explained - probably just a gesture of friendship. It was a small autoloader of some kind, possibly a Remington or a Savage.

I have seen pictures of GSP with the Colt revolver, but do not recall seeing any of him with the automatic given by Joyce. After the war, it was not uncommon to see pics of him with the Army-issue general officer's model Colt .32 (or .380) that had wood stocks with three or four stars inlaid.

The Colt .38 revolver came to him before or during the European campaign, I believe, and I recall reading a comment by Patton that he liked it as a "headquarters gun," or something like that.

A lot of people believe Patton's handguns were merely props used as part of his "stage show" in motivating troops. The truth is that Patton not only enjoyed handguns and was an expert marksman with them throughout his life, but also that he had a record of carrying them when not on duty - for example, at his daughter's wedding.

 

[gkitch]

If one is ever near it, the Patton Museum at Fort Knox is marvelous. Several of his personal guns are displayed, to include his Colt SAA and S&W Registered Magnum.
I found the Colt DA 38 Special interesting. It is a standard 6" with fixed sights that he used to compete in the Pentathalon. Most of the other competitors were using 22s at the time.

 

[David LaPell]

I know when Patton competed in the olympics when he was young, while the other competitors used .22's, Patton preferred a .38 because he wanted to be true to the military spirit. Patton was an excellent pistol shot, both at the range and in combat.

 

[M29since14]

Another little curiosity that comes to mind about Patton's DS, or whatever the model was called at that time, is that when you see a photo of him with the gun, the holster used is very unusual. It is not a Myers rig similar to those used with the Colt SAA and S&W .357. The holster is a straight, strong-side holster that drops slightly from the belt. It appears to be a slab of fairly stiff leather, cut in a rectangular pattern, with a pocket for the gun of somewhat thinner leather sewn onto the rectangular slab. It's a very odd arrangement, and not typical of anything that Patton acquired for his own use. Patton's own acquisitions showed a certain class and style - always good quality and contemporary with the times. The holster for the Detective Special appears to be something someone whipped up for him that knew very little about holster making - or at least they were not concerned about a traditional appearance.

 

[walnutred]

.... The holster for the Detective Special appears to be something someone whipped up for him that knew very little about holster making - or at least they were not concerned about a traditional appearance.

As in: Made by some poor Ordnanceman in the Theater of Operations who had never made a holster before but was told he had to stitch something up for Patton?

 

[M29since14]

As in: Made by some poor Ordnanceman in the Theater of Operations who had never made a holster before but was told he had to stitch something up for Patton?

Yes, that is what I thought when I saw it.

Another thought that came to mind is that the whole mess might have been made for airmen and designed that way as a matter of function, viz. the leather rectangle fit in a certain space or container, or something like that, that kept the gun and holster from rattling around... ?

Patton was on very good terms with Weyland and XIX TAC. I wondered if the Colt and holster might not have come from that direction?

As evidence of this mutual fondness, there are more than a few references in various historical works to Gen. Weyland personally flying escort missions when Patton was flying here and there. Even more unusual, Gen. Weyland appears to have taken a personal interest in Patton's travel and sometimes discouraged trips he thought too dangerous, for other reasons, by telling Patton the "weather is too bad [for flight]." One can imagine this could be a pretty risky enterprise unless on the best possible terms with GSP.

 

[Art Doc]

Patton had a 32 or 380 Colt auto with pearl stocks. He always wore it concealed. I never understood his disparaging comment considering he routinely carried a pistol with pearl stocks.

 

[feralmerril]

I suspect "the ginneral" was just haveing a little fun with george. Were it me I would have sent him a pear handeled rossi.
I have this american historical fondation Uberti Patton commemerative. I aint into commemratives, but I got it cheap.
Fully engraved and real silver plated too! (Faux ivory though.)

 

[kwill1911]

Patton had a 32 or 380 Colt auto with pearl stocks. He always wore it concealed. I never understood his disparaging comment considering he routinely carried a pistol with pearl stocks.

Do you have some evidence--a reference--for this statement?

Thanks,
Kevin Williams

 

[keith44spl]

T-Star,

Do recall something about a Colt 38 also...

***************************************************

Feral,

Your picture looks just like mine

Yeah, I know folks...Just keep those cards and letters

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Another little curiosity that comes to mind about Patton's DS, or whatever the model was called at that time, is that when you see a photo of him with the gun, the holster used is very unusual. It is not a Myers rig similar to those used with the Colt SAA and S&W .357. The holster is a straight, strong-side holster that drops slightly from the belt. It appears to be a slab of fairly stiff leather, cut in a rectangular pattern, with a pocket for the gun of somewhat thinner leather sewn onto the rectangular slab. It's a very odd arrangement, and not typical of anything that Patton acquired for his own use. Patton's own acquisitions showed a certain class and style - always good quality and contemporary with the times. The holster for the Detective Special appears to be something someone whipped up for him that knew very little about holster making - or at least they were not concerned about a traditional appearance.

Oddly enough, I am familiar with the holster you refer to. Although I can't recall exactly, it was made by a very high quality maker of the time, who Patton patronized for much of his custom gunleather. This was the very same maker who produced the holsters for the Colt SAA and S&W Registered Magnum, gunbelt and handcuff pouch which he used for a spare ammo pouch. I'll have to look at some references, but I'm pretty certain that is so.

Cheers;
Lefty

P.S. If you use the search function, you might find one of several past threads in which we have discussed Pattons guns and leather accessories on, in years past. I know we have discussed it in detail previously.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

As in: Made by some poor Ordnanceman in the Theater of Operations who had never made a holster before but was told he had to stitch something up for Patton?

Not a chance. It was clearly made by a pro.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[feralmerril]

Dave, that is sweeet! The engraveing looks just like mine!

 

[OFT II]

Lefty, are you thinking of Myres?

 

[Texas Star]

I have seen pics of Patton with the Detective Special. Don't know if it was his, or an "issue" gun. Eisenhower had a DS that was issued to him (square butt, I think), but turned it in later. The Army acquired some of those little Colts in the 1930's There were also postwar acquisitions, mainly for CID agents. I think the DS holster was by Myres. I have seen it elsewhere.

Patton's .32 or .380 Colt had wood grips with stars in them in the photo or two that I've seen. He also had a Remington .380.

Patton did carry off duty. He was armed when he tried to stop what appeared to be a kidnpping in New York in 1928, I think. It turned out to be an eloping couple clowning around, or something similar. There was even a reference to this in the movie, Patton, where the German intelligence officer assigned to study Patton was reporting to his general.

I wondered if the Detective Spcl. was the gift .38 mentioned and he just changed the grips. Or if it was a gun never illustrated with his others.

What was the Colt .38 used in the Olympics? An early Officer's Model? Be interesting to know if it was based on the Army Special (later, Official Police) or the older New Army Target. I think the Army Special appeared in 1908. Which Olympics was he in? I know that Patton was also an expert fencer and designed the Patton saber that basically copied the British Pattern of 1908 (1912, for the Officers Model). Until Wilkinson went out of the sword business some years ago, they still made that pattern. I handled one, but it was a little long unless you were on a horse.

The Patton sword was the last US sword designed for combat.

I guess that everyone here knows that Patton used his Colt SAA .45 to kill several of Pancho Villa's men during Pershing's raid into Mexico, about 1916?

I believe that Patton used ivory grips on some guns because he was a bit "showy" and because he would have known that Roman generals wore ivory-hilted swords. He was quite a historian.

 

[M29since14]

Lefty, it will be interesting to learn what your research turns up on the mystery holster. Let us know.

Patton's "duty rig" was made by Myers and there is no real likelihood of conjecture here. I have seen photos of the Myers stamps on the backs of the holsters. The belt was a creation of Myers using the buckle from an Army-issue web belt that pre-dated WW I, I believe. Patton supplied the buckle and Myers took it from there.

I've also seen pics of GSP with other guns, including a Colt .22, and the leather is always attributed to Myers, so I gather Myers was his favorite maker. Patton was stationed in that area of the country early in his career, in anticipation of the Mexican Punitive Expedition, and became familiar with the "gun culture" of the area. One of the more amusing stories I can recall reading is his recollection of his encounter with a "panther hunter" in a bar somewhere down along the border. A great story, but with some racial overtones that might cause the modern, faint-of-heart types to have trouble sleeping at night.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Lefty, are you thinking of Myres?

OFT;

Yeah, but I'd prefer to cite the resource where I actually read it. Seems like I've loaned the book to someone....and I can't remember who it was. Welcome to the golden years!

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[kwill1911]

Here are a few sources on Patton's guns:


• Elman, Robert, Fired in Anger, The Personal Handguns of American Heroes and Villains, Doubleday & Company, Inc. , 1968.
• Perry, Milton F. and Parke, Barbara W., Patton and His Pistols, The Stackpole Company, 1957.
• “Patton’s Peacemaker,” Ronald A. Ogan, American Rifleman, May, 1986.
• “Patton: Guns Made Him Great,” Whit Collins, Guns & Ammo, August, 1971.
• “Guns of General Patton,” Charles M. Province, Guns Magazine, December, 1986.
• “Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Olympic Competitor,” John J. Grubar, Man at Arms, Number 3, 1995.

Regards,
Kevin Williams