A good starting load?

[flyrobb]

I want to load some 9mm, 115gr, LRN coated from Bayou with Power Pistol. I'll be shooting them out of my G19 or 3913. I can't find any exact data for 115 LRN in any of my manuals so based on what I have I think 5.0 to 5.2 would be a good place to start. I wanted to run it by the experienced handloaders here to see what you think. Below is the data I came up with for various 115 gr bullets from different manuals.

Speer: 115 TMJRN 6.2 - 6.7
Hornady: FMJRN 4.8 - 6.7
Nosler: 115 JHP 5.6 - 6.6
Alliant: 115 SGDHP 6.0 - 6.7
Lyman Cast: 124 LCN 5.0 - 5.5

I realize none of these are the same bullet I am loading but I gotta go with data I have and come up with something. You think 5.0 - 5.2 is too low, too high or about right to start and how high would you go?

 

[Old 44 Guy]

I'm loading 4.4 Grs. Bulls Eye for target & a starting load with a 115 Gr. Jacketed bullet. Very accurate.

 

[rwsmith]

My Lyman 49th has....

For a cast 120 grain bullet (SWC) they recommend 5.1 to 5.7 of Power Pistol. 5 grains isn't much difference in bullet weight and the SWC is pretty close to a RN in profile so I'd go with that.

 

[Wise_A]

Forget the jacketed data. You've done well to select the 125 gr LCN. The weight and profile are different, but it's only marginally heavier, and it's the same construction.

Heavier bullets in pistol cartridges typically use less powder for starting loads than lighter bullets, in my experience. 5.0-5.2 errs properly on the side of caution. It may or may not cycle, but it's not going to blow up.

 

[muddocktor]

I would think around 5.5 grains would be a good starting point for your Bayou/PP loading experience myself. Load around 50 or so and go to the range with them along with some white box 115 grain RN factory stuff and see how they print and group as compared to the white box stuff. Then adjust from there, as well as checking out the ejected cases for any abnormal signs.

 

[rwsmith]

The main things about bullet profiles......

If they are the same diameter.

If they are the same weight

The area of contact with the barrel. This is minor consideration. About the only difference in contact area that I'd consider would be a full wadcutter and a Keith bullet.
Most pistol bullets of the same weight have nearly the same contact area for friction.

The hardness of the lead bullet may count some, like between a hard cast and a swaged bullet, but like is posted above, err a little on the side of safety.

 

[rwsmith]

Everybody here has a slightly different approach...

But looking at the similarity of the results tells me something. I'd bet that any of these suggestions would work and also that a few tenths of a grain either way at the starting load isn't going to make a lot of difference. Definitely not enough difference to kaboom your fine weapon.

 

[flyrobb]

For a cast 120 grain bullet (SWC) they recommend 5.1 to 5.7 of Power Pistol. 5 grains isn't much difference in bullet weight and the SWC is pretty close to a RN in profile so I'd go with that.

Now that you mention that bullet I looked in the 49th and see the 120 gr LRN lists P.P. @ 5.0-5.6 so pretty close. Don't think I'll go any higher than 5.7 though.

Wise_A; Forget the jacketed data. You've done well to select the 125 gr LCN. The weight and profile are different, but it's only marginally heavier, and it's the same construction.

Good advice. Just muddying up things with jacketed and plated when there's lead data that's much closer.

I am feeling more confident interpolating data when there isn't data for the exact bullet/powder combo but still feel better double checking in here.

 

[BC38]

I am feeling more confident interpolating data when there isn't data for the exact bullet/powder combo but still feel better double checking in here.

Same here. As my ol' pap used to say....
"Two heads are always better than one - even if one of them is a cabbage head!"

 

[Wise_A]

I am feeling more confident interpolating data when there isn't data for the exact bullet/powder combo but still feel better double checking in here.

Yeah, going off of a near-enough bullet isn't too bad. Many people happily reload without knowing the exact weight of their bullets anyway.

For instance, I got a box of balky reloads off a guy. Feed/extract issues, .45 ACP LSWC. The amount of exposed shoulder was all over the place. Chamber-checked a bunch, the ones that passed got used in a 1911, the ones that didn't went through a 625, and I saved maybe 20 of them because I'm a curious sort, and was just starting out reloading and wanted to check to see if LSWCs could be made to feed reliably in my guns. So they ended up sitting on my bench for a couple years.

Eventually, I got around to them. They're all loaded to a consistent OAL. So I pull 'em and weigh 'em. Even cherry-picking the most undamaged, similar-looking ones, they range from 186 grains to 201!

Turns out they have varying amounts of shoulder because they're slightly different 185-grain-type designs, one slightly stubbier than the other, but still not a 200-grain. That explains the varying shoulder, which explains why they don't like feeding when you also consider that the crimp was almost non-existent.

So I load some dummies, and hand-cycle them--no probs. Load them up with a 185-grain starting load (which was just .2 grains above a 200-grain starting load), and shoot them. No problems.

Near as I can guess, they were two different bullets that were supposed to be a 185-grain, but weren't. I suspect that they were from the same well-known (and expensive) caster that the gentleman in question gets all his bullets from.

I plan on buying some LSWCs from Missouri Bullet, as most of their bullets have weighed much more consistently, for far less money.

 

[fredj338]

With lead bullets, if you lack data, you can always start with equiv jacketed data & work it up. Load to the longest oal that functions on your gun. You will get a bit more vel than you would with a jacketed bullet.

 

[Steely85]

With lead bullets, if you lack data, you can always start with equiv jacketed data & work it up. Load to the longest oal that functions on your gun. You will get a bit more vel than you would with a jacketed bullet.

Just remember, generally lead will generate higher pressures than jacketed bullets with the same charge.

 

[fredj338]

Just remember, generally lead will generate higher pressures than jacketed bullets with the same charge.

Which is why i said use starting jacketed data. I should have added to work to max loads very carefully.

 

[flyrobb]

Just remember, generally lead will generate higher pressures than jacketed bullets with the same charge.

Is that because the jacketed will leave the barrel quicker resulting in less pressure being built up?

 

[hdwhit]

I want to load some 9mm, 115gr, LRN coated from Bayou with Power Pistol.

What's the diameter of the bullet?

If you don't know from the manufacturer, spend the money and get a good micrometer or digital caliper. 9mm Jacketed bullets typically run 0.355 inch and Lead as well as Plated and Coated bullets often run 0.356 inch. When you shoot a .356 bullet, the expanding powder has to ram a larger bullet down the barrel. This may increase pressures.

If you cannot get instructions on which data to use from the manufacturer, first ask yourself why you are buying their bullets and then use lead bullet data for that particular weight. Always start with the starting load recommended. If there is no starting load, take the listed load, reduce by 10% and then go up 1/10 grain at a time.

Good luck.

 

[flyrobb]

What's the diameter of the bullet?

If you don't know from the manufacturer, spend the money and get a good micrometer or digital caliper. 9mm Jacketed bullets typically run 0.355 inch and Lead as well as Plated and Coated bullets often run 0.356 inch. When you shoot a .356 bullet, the expanding powder has to ram a larger bullet down the barrel. This may increase pressures.

If you cannot get instructions on which data to use from the manufacturer, first ask yourself why you are buying their bullets and then use lead bullet data for that particular weight. Always start with the starting load recommended. If there is no starting load, take the listed load, reduce by 10% and then go up 1/10 grain at a time.

Good luck.

They are .356 and all the cast bullet data from the Lyman manual that has been referenced in this post are .356 as well.

I was wanting to try some coated lead so just picked Bayou for a couple sample packs of 100 in 124 and 115 gr.

 

[fredj338]

Is that because the jacketed will leave the barrel quicker resulting in less pressure being built up?

Loaded with the same bullet wt & charge, the lead bullet is faster. My theory, the lead bullet seals the bore better utilizing all the pressure behind it. Some will say the lead. Ullet has less friction, but that does t jive when you moly coat jacketed, vel & pressre goes down. Spme day i'll get a pressure trace & see if mt theory is correct.

 

[Frank46]

Slug your barrels to see what exactly the bore and land measurements are before getting your bullets. Reason I say this is that my Beretta 92FS has a .357 bore measurement and when I tried the nominal .355 diameter cast bullets in it I got horrible leading. I actually got a bulk buy of remington 357 125 grain jacketed bullets and shot those in the Beretta and shot nicely. Frank