Circle K is "Unsafe Zone"

[Major 2]

Unless you are in an area prohibited by Florida law from carrying a firearm there, ignoring the sign is not against the law. However, if the owner of the store sees or knows that you have a gun, and asks you to leave, you must. Otherwise you can be charged with criminal tresspass.

That's my understanding, sometime back a favorite restaurant. posted a NO GUNS sign.
This a local favorite and local family owned (the Owner had died several years ago and the daughter and SIL took up the management) in s Sm. to Med size town in the WDW shadow.
Locals fell off, business suffered... the sign came down.

shows to go ya ! with a NO GUNS policy, a favored local place will shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[Telecaster]

It's a 14 year old post. The OP is most likely dead.

Given the average age of this forum's members, you're probably right.

 

[Smoke]

So the Army silver LTC insignia, looks much the same as USAF LTC

So does the Marine lieutenant colonel insignia and Navy Commander insignia

 

[Pisgah]

I fail to see how your actions will in any way improve Circle K's behavior. What you should have done is keep quiet... and carry every time you walk through the door. Concealed is concealed; until you squawked, I'll bet no one would have looked at you twice...

 

[Tony Tiger]

When asked if I have a gun, the answer is no. I have two, possibly three guns on me...

 

[Smoke]

Given the average age of this forum's members, you're probably right.

He hasn't logged in in over 10 years so...

 

[Smoke]

If we're going to run with this 14 year old topic, I don't recall the last time I saw a "No Guns" sign on any business that I frequent in Colorado Springs. The only exception to that is my wife's doctor's offices and the VA.

They used to have them at our bank but on the front door the sign was in black lettering on a black door at the bottom of the door and you had to be looking for it to see it. The side door they had a traditional Gun Buster sign but it was literally at the bottom of the door. I never asked but it was like they were going out of their way to make it difficult for you to see the sign. So they were following corporate policy but not actually restricting you from having a gun in their Bank.

FWIW I ignore the signs entirely when I take my wife to the doctor and I abide by them to the letter when I go to the VA. I rarely go to the post office but I abide by the rules there too.

 

[jscott]

I'm quite sure there are parts of your area that are the same...it's no different than anywhere else (unless you live in Detriot). My hood is pretty rough...but not as rough as some areas of the city. Houston has its warzones,

NYC is the same as LA, the riding DA usually relies on the PD to decide what course of action to take. Any death would result in a grand jury being convened.

I will say this, I would use my firearm to save my life or the life of another, I wouldn't use it to protect property. If I was a clerk in a store and was getting robbed, even with my ccw, I would hand over the cash and even throw in a few lotto tickets. I would only use force if I thought it would prevent an innocent person from dying. I never understood news stories where they had video of unarmed cashiers fighting a perp over a gun. For what? Your minimal wage job and your life?

If I was in a Bank that was being robbed and I thought they would just take the money and run and not hurt anyone, I wouldn't even bother to clear leather. Who cares about property?

NYC is the same as LA, the riding DA usually relies on the PD to decide what course of action to take. Any death would result in a grand jury being convened.

I will say this, I would use my firearm to save my life or the life of another, I wouldn't use it to protect property. If I was a clerk in a store and was getting robbed, even with my ccw, I would hand over the cash and even throw in a few lotto tickets. I would only use force if I thought it would prevent an innocent person from dying. I never understood news stories where they had video of unarmed cashiers fighting a perp over a gun. For what? Your minimal wage job and your life?

If I was in a Bank that was being robbed and I thought they would just take the money and run and not hurt anyone, I wouldn't even bother to clear leather. Who cares about property?

Problem is, sometimes they kill you just to kill you after they have want they want. Unpredictable. My experience working Homicide.

 

[jscott]

I'm quite sure there are parts of your area that are the same...it's no different than anywhere else (unless you live in Detriot). My hood is pretty rough...but not as rough as some areas of the city. Houston has its warzones, too.

Many years ago, I walked a foot beat in Detroit during the summer. I would take a break by sitting in the cooler of an Arab connivence store, knowing the clerks were better armed than me. It was the only place it was safe to take off my body armor.

 

[Oldsalt66]

I'm curious; does the 'No Guns' sign legally prevent you from carrying in Florida?

Texas has very specific requirements for enforceable signage, I was just wondering.

No, those signs have absolutely no force of law in Florida, and any non-prohibited person may carry a concealed weapon or firearm with or without a license in this state, except in the locations clearly specified by law.

I apologize for taking 14 years to answer your question.

 

[Glenn Nesmith]

I would have asked, with my 20-20 hindsight, "What does the sign protect you from?" If the employees' mouth starts gaping like a brook trout, I might add, "Do criminals obey signs?"

Asking an employee, who has no say whatsoever on the sign, is just silly. It's a corporate headquarters issue, so ask the CEO.

 

[judgecrater]

Here is GA you are expected to carry.

 

[BB57]

July 26, 2011

Today I stopped at the Circle K at the intersection of Interstate 10 and SR 281, just west of Pensacola, Florida.

I noticed a “No Guns” sign in the window. I dutifully disarmed myself, and went in to ask about the sign. I asked the assistant manager if this was local or corporate policy.

I was told that it was corporate policy and was, “for our protection”. I told myself that it was not “protection”, but a “target-rich” environment.

I told the assistant manager that her sign told me that I was not welcome in the store, and would not do business there anymore (or until the sign was removed). I did tell her I would contact the corporate office in Phoenix, Arizona, and let them know that I was no-longer a Circle K customer.

Fountain E. Conner

I've never felt all that well protected when I, as a well vetted, law abiding, armed citizen, is expected to disarm, when criminals committing violent crimes in convenience stores are going to just ignore the sign and come right in with greater expectation their intended victims will be unarmed.

They might as well put up a "rob me" sign.

I worked my way through college as a police officer. Half small city's residents were literally college students, so I worked a 9 month contract. In the summers I managed a convenience store for my uncle who owned seven of them in a larger city 40 minutes away. I worked the 4 to midnight shift and dropped between $5K and $10K at the bank's night drop on my way home.

He asked me once why my particular store had never been robbed even though I was in the most crime prone neighborhood, when all the other stores had been robbed on the night shift that summer. I explained that I watch who comes in and if they look sketchy and or look like they are casing the place for a robbery, I just lift up my shirt and make sure they can see the 1911. He was not pro gun at all. On the other had he was also no pro being robbed or paying worker comp claims when his workers got assaulted. He wasn't comfortable with my carrying a gun, but he also never said "don't do it".

From his perspective my carrying was outside of company policy, so he was covered and that was enough.

---

That's really what's at the core of "no guns allowed" policies. They not intended to protect customers or employees. They are intended to protect the business from liability as they will claim that since they posted it "no guns" they expected no criminals would bring a gun in the store (and I guess knives are less lethal).

Now...I might buy the "for your safety" argument if they also employed competent armed security guards and had them in the store, if not 24/7 at least during higher risk after dark hours.

 

[BB57]

Here is GA you are expected to carry.

Same in eastern NC. When I got my first permit the sheriff was very clear. He said:

"if you're ever stopped and are not conceal carrying I or my deputies will ask you 'why the hell not' as there is no possible way we can ever arrive in time to protect you or your family, you are responsible for your own self defense."

That certainly comports with my prior experience. Its unfortunate most police departments are not that honest about the reality of response times, or that many businesses don't have the same realization that they also cannot (or are unwilling to) be responsible for your protection in their business.

 

[BB57]

NYC is the same as LA, the riding DA usually relies on the PD to decide what course of action to take. Any death would result in a grand jury being convened.

I will say this, I would use my firearm to save my life or the life of another, I wouldn't use it to protect property. If I was a clerk in a store and was getting robbed, even with my ccw, I would hand over the cash and even throw in a few lotto tickets. I would only use force if I thought it would prevent an innocent person from dying. I never understood news stories where they had video of unarmed cashiers fighting a perp over a gun. For what? Your minimal wage job and your life?

If I was in a Bank that was being robbed and I thought they would just take the money and run and not hurt anyone, I wouldn't even bother to clear leather. Who cares about property?

That's pretty much a given in most jurisdictions.

In most states, the use of lethal force is not justified in defense of property. There must be an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm (including sexual assault) before deadly force can be used in self defense.

In most states, it's also allowed for you to assume that an intruder breaking into your home or vehicle (while you are in it, obviously) intends to commit murder or assault and thus deadly force is justified. That can create some fringe cases where you find an intruder already in your house committing what is clearly a property crime. Since they are already inside you can no longer assume they pose an imminent threat. As with any property crime you can still use physical force, but you can't escalate to lethal force unless they have already escalated to presenting an imminent threat.

As noted in a post above, I used to work summers as a night manager in a convenience store. I was not robbed in part because I was obviously armed. If someone had attempted a robbery using non lethal force, I would have complied and handed over the money rather than shoot, even in SD where the law was more permissive in a business. But that would not extend to letting myself be disarmed and if they were armed, then lethal force would have been used. You get what you give so to speak.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Unless you are OC, then why tell them you have one in the first place? While many of you on this forum might disagree with me, I carry everywhere except certain places (courthouses, etc)...to me, as long as I'm not playing Matt Dillon, it is no one's biz if I got my sidearm or not. To each his own and I'm not suggesting yea or nay on this, but in my book and in this day and age, I've only got one life and I intend on going home at the end of the day.

Convience stores are "convienent" for the crooks...in my neck of the woods they get robbed so often (often by the same knuckleheads) the clerks are almost on a first name basis with the robbers. Telling Circle K's corporate office is fine, but will do little to correct this matter. Some people/companies are just anti-gun and always will be. Sad, but true.

I ain't saying who, but most mom&pop convience stores around here have ARMED clerks.

Sir.........You get 2 Amens for this post...........AMEN & AMEN.

 

[BB57]

If we're going to run with this 14 year old topic, I don't recall the last time I saw a "No Guns" sign on any business that I frequent in Colorado Springs. The only exception to that is my wife's doctor's offices and the VA.

They used to have them at our bank but on the front door the sign was in black lettering on a black door at the bottom of the door and you had to be looking for it to see it. The side door they had a traditional Gun Buster sign but it was literally at the bottom of the door. I never asked but it was like they were going out of their way to make it difficult for you to see the sign. So they were following corporate policy but not actually restricting you from having a gun in their Bank.

FWIW I ignore the signs entirely when I take my wife to the doctor and I abide by them to the letter when I go to the VA. I rarely go to the post office but I abide by the rules there too.

In NC the law states "On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises."

I have over the years seen some guidance with specific recommendations as to:
- how large the sign needs to be;
- a maximum of how far from the door the sign can be; and
- how far from eye level the sign can be, but I don't think any of it is legally binding.

But, while "conspicuous", while a bit vague, is the requirement. If it's not conspicuous and you have to search for it, it can be ignored.

For example, one of the malls in the area had every door posted, except for an anchor store that sold guns. you could consequently, enter there and access the entire mall without ever seeing a sign. They eventually added a prominent sign at the inner exit from that store to the mall.

I've also entered posted businesses where i did not see the sign until I was exiting, as a sale or promotional sign placed in front of the door obscured the "no firearms allowed" sign. Again, not conspicuous.

We do have several chains that in the wake of those really short sighted and frankly stupid 2A demonstrations, posted their premises against open carry. In short, they don't object to you carrying a gun, but they do object to you doing it in a way that makes other customers uncomfortable. I fully support that as my right to carry also comes with responsibility to wield that right responsibly in a manner that doesn't infringe on the rights of others, like other customers feeling comfortable, and business owners making money in their business.

It demonstrates the value of concealed carry in exercising your right to self defense, without bothering anyone.

And when it comes to entering a posted private business, accidentally or otherwise, concealed is concealed, and if it's concealed you're most likely going to avoid any legal entanglement.

State and federal buildings, county courthouses, post offices, etc, that's a different story with much higher criminal stakes. And they usually have security guards to handle the safety aspect of it.