Attn:KY, OH, TN, residents.

[keith44spl]

I went to Joseph Beth Booksellers in Lexington Ky. (Davis Kidd in TN) with my wife tonight. We have been going there for years and my wife worked there for 3 years as a manager.
I've gone there countless times open carrying, with no incident, and I've made it a point to look for any "no concealed weapons" signs. So, I went there tonight carrying concealed as I have my CCDW, and after I took my light jacket off I was open carrying. KY is a pre-emptive open carry state, meaning no local government can override the open carry law. The only caveat is that private property owners can specify they don't want concealed carry on their premises, as all you guys are probably aware. They had no sign posted on their front door, which we entered. There we are in the back of the store reading magazines on a couch, when 6 uniformed officers surround me and tell me to stand. An officer takes my side-arm. They ask for my permit, and I say that I am not breaking any laws. I am a Police Studies major at E.K.U. and know for a fact that they have to have a sign posted by law. They escort me out and secure my side-arm in my truck. One officer said, "This is Lexington, you need to keep it concealed". The security at J.B.B. called the police after an anti-gun person told them I was carrying. I asked the officer where the sign was posted, and he said on another door. I know that KRS says the sign should be clearly and visible posted, and they sure do not have that covered. Also, they could have just asked me to leave. I was very cooperative and the officers were for the most part cordial, but they pretty much said, "give up your right to open carry cause of the anti-gun people." Please Boycott JOSEPH BETH BOOKSELLERS; they are anti-gun. Even their security said, "I have a CCDWL and they won't let me carry here either" Come on, these people need to get a clue. I will be calling NRA-ILA tomorrow to see if I have a case to sue.

Well Son,

First off let me thank you for your pending law enforcement service. This was a field training excerise at best...
If or when you sign on with KSP or whatever agency, you'll have some first hand experience in these kinda situations.

As for the LPD officers, it was probably their first time too.
And yes, I am fully aware of the open carry statutes within the KRS and that of the Kentucky Constitution.

When I'm in the Commonwealth or in Texas I carry concealed in public,
I pay the fee to do so and I use it.
I do open carry out on the rural route and not so much in town.

I attended a breifing/in-service training in Louisville hosted by the United States Attorneys' Office
and several of those acronymed agencies, that dealt with this very subject.

It addressed our conduct and discretion when armed in public.
It just all boils down to; Everyone doesn't need to know your carrying a personal defense firearm.

When I first started carrying a handgun, my ol' Dad told me, "Son every man's got one, so don't go pullin' yours out in public."

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[BE Mike]

Just because something is legal doesn't necessarily make it a good idea to practice in certain situations. Those who insist on this 'in-your-face' type of attitude may have the law on their side . . . for now . . . until they pizz off enough of the leftists who vote to effect a change in the law - again.

No amount of reasoning is going to reach someone who has made up his mind on this that his 'rights are being trampled'. I've seen this same discussion carried on ad nauseum on another forum where one or two stalwarts insist it's their legal right to text while driving and that they can do it safely. No amount of discussion can dissuade them from that view. Because they are right. Always. End of discussion. It's not illegal and they have rights.

I agree Fred. The members of the Westboro Baptist Church express their rights under the constitution. I don't think that it has won them any converts lately.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I can legally carry open or concealed. I don't carry open in public areas because it draws attention which I believe is an unnecessary risk.... whether it be from six officers intent on disarming me (tragic innocent mistakes can happen) or a crackhead thinking he can snatch an open sidearm... stuff like that. I would prefer to go about my business drawing the least attention possible which I believe to be the safest path. Afterall, my/family safety is why I'm carrying to begin with....

That said, I am willing to listen to why carrying open while walking through the shopping mall is a more sound practice.

 

[rocketdog]

When I first started carrying a handgun, my ol' Dad told me, "Son every man's got one, so don't go pullin' yours out in public."

Best of Thread award! LOL!

 

[cmort666]

That said, I am willing to listen to why carrying open while walking through the shopping mall is a more sound practice.

It's no more OR less "sound" of a practice. it's just a practice.

I don't open carry, but I certainly don't object to somebody else who wants to. Some of the objections (rants, actually) I see to open carry are so over the top that they are indistinguishable from any anti-gun rant against concealed carry. That they are often seamlessly blended into appeals to blind submission to illegitimate expressions of whim masquerading as "law" is just that more disturbing.

If you don't want to open carry, don't.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

It's no more OR less "sound" of a practice. it's just a practice.

I don't open carry, but I certainly don't object to somebody else who wants to. Some of the objections (rants, actually) I see to open carry are so over the top that they are indistinguishable from any anti-gun rant against concealed carry. That they are often seamlessly blended into appeals to blind submission to illegitimate expressions of whim masquerading as "law" is just that more disturbing.

If you don't want to open carry, don't.

Surely there must be some distinct advantages to open carry while walking through a shopping mall or other public places. If there weren't, then why would someone not carry concealed and avoid the risks of drawing attention to themselves?

 

[cmort666]

Surely there must be some distinct advantages to open carry while walking through a shopping mall or other public places. If there weren't, then why would someone not carry concealed and avoid the risks of drawing attention to themselves?

There doesn't need to be an "advantage". It just needs to be what the person LAWFULLY wants to do, whether for comfort, to make a statement, or on pure whim. In Texas it wouldn't be lawful. In Ohio and Pennsylvania it is.

I carry (among other things) a Norinco M1911. You don't need to justify to me why you carry something else.

 

[blujax01]

While it is lawful to open carry in Ohio, I was advised against it due to the possibility of arrest for "inducing panic" if someone freaks out when they see it.
This is the 21st century. Perception is reality.

 

[cmort666]

While it is lawful to open carry in Ohio, I was advised against it due to the possibility of arrest for "inducing panic" if someone freaks out when they see it.
This is the 21st century. Perception is reality.

Whoever told you that hasn't a clue regarding the law.

No lesser a personage than the Attorney General stated the contrary.

Lawful open carry UTTERLY fails to conform to the elements of the crime "inducing panic". I had a not too bright Rocky River cop tell me that nonsense when I inadvertently exposed my M1911. I didn't budge an inch. He apparently talked to a grownup who set him straight. He was none too happy about it, but life is full of little disappointments. I imagine he didn't derive much more pleasure from my letter to the Chief either.

There also seem to be a few people who think that you have to notify a cop in Ohio when you're NOT carrying... although of WHAT I'm going to notify him is a matter of some conjecture. That's a made up requirement too.

Know the law.
Obey the law.
Don't let yourself be bullied by the ignorant and the malicious.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

There doesn't need to be an "advantage". It just needs to be what the person LAWFULLY wants to do, whether for comfort, to make a statement, or on pure whim. In Texas it wouldn't be lawful. In Ohio and Pennsylvania it is.

I got the 'it's legal' part way back on post#10.

Just like when someone asked the other day what practical use was there for a can on a gun besides the coolness factor, I was just asking the same thing here about open carry. Besides the running theme of this thread so far, (to satisfy one's bravado or just cuz), what is the practical side to carrying open in public places like shopping malls and such. // 1. Comfort. Anything else?

 

[cmort666]

I got the 'it's legal' part way back on post#10.

That's the single most important matter.

Just like when someone asked the other day what practical use was there for a can on a gun besides the coolness factor, I was just asking the same thing here about open carry. Besides the running theme of this thread so far, (to satisfy one's bravado or just cuz), what is the practical side to carrying open in public places like shopping malls and such. // 1. Comfort. Anything else?

That's good enough for me.

As long as you're not committing a crime, I don't CARE why you do it.

I'm not advocating that people do it.

I'm advocating that they not be UNLAWFULLY prevented from doing it, just as I advocate that people not carry into liquor serving establishments where that's UNLAWFUL, or that people notify an LEO that they're carrying where that's REQUIRED by law.

I think our STARTING point should be that EVERYBODY, citizen and LEO, know and obey the law. Far too many of both, DON'T. If you're not doing what you HAVE to do, whether you're doing what somebody else WANTS you to do is utterly inconsequential.

If you go to a surgeon, are you more concerned about whether he leaves sponges in his patients, or the color of his scrubs?

First do no harm.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Well Cmort, these posts always tell us more about people than they intend.

It's obvious that although seasoned, reasonable people disagree with you, the only opinion that matters to you is yours. I can see that nothing is going to change that, except maybe time.

There's nothing wrong with standing up for your opinions either, but you know what that Greek guy said about the unexamined life. . . .

It's always good to at least listen to others before deciding what's right and wrong, and it's a darn good idea for law enforcement folks. Read some of Charlie Sherrill's posts; he may know the people and the situations very well, but he always listens to them before deciding on a course of action. A wise man.

 

[cmort666]

Well Cmort, these posts always tell us more about people than they intend.

It's obvious that although seasoned, reasonable people disagree with you, the only opinion that matters to you is yours. I can see that nothing is going to change that, except maybe time.

Perhaps you've overlooked that precisely the same could be said of the people who attack open carriers.

You're probably laboring under the misapprehension that I haven't previously given this a LOT of thought, or heard EXACTLY these same arguments previously. In fact, I came to my opinions on the matter quite a while ago, and repetition of the same counter-arguments is hardly more convincing now than then, ESPECIALLY when those arguments are posited in the most over the top, condescending way.

Time doesn't change the worth of an idea. A bad old idea is still bad. Letting people who couldn't care less if I lived or died bully me into catering to their whims is just as bad an idea today as it was five minutes or fifty years ago.

 

[GTbob]

I got the 'it's legal' part way back on post#10.

Just like when someone asked the other day what practical use was there for a can on a gun besides the coolness factor, I was just asking the same thing here about open carry. Besides the running theme of this thread so far, (to satisfy one's bravado or just cuz), what is the practical side to carrying open in public places like shopping malls and such. // 1. Comfort. Anything else?

Perhaps the obvious...... The one that is open carrying has applied for, but doesn't yet have their concealed carry permit.

 

[cmort666]

Perhaps the obvious...... The one that is open carrying has applied for, but doesn't yet have their concealed carry permit.

Another is that they CAN'T carry concealed, as NO citizen can do in Wisconsin.

That is in fact how we got concealed carry in Ohio. Governor Voinovich, Toby Hoover, the Highway Patrol, etc. virulently opposed concealed carry. The argument was that we didn't NEED concealed carry because court decisions protected OPEN carry. People began open carrying. This so horrified the hypocrites who only moments before opposed concealed carry, that they passed lawful concealed carry, albeit in a form which they thought would be unacceptable. Since then, CCW has been reformed, resulting in legal CCW AND open carry.

Like I said, the anti-gunner who doesn't want you to open carry doesn't want you to carry concealed EITHER, or indeed to OWN a firearm.

 

[setxn]

Pushing for your rights-OK Pushing your rights backwards over a cliff-not OK. There is really no good reason to Open Carry only someone proving they can or to annoy.I agree with other posters just because it is legal doesn't make it the most positive thing to do a particular time or place

 

[cmort666]

Pushing for your rights-OK Pushing your rights backwards over a cliff-not OK. There is really no good reason to Open Carry only someone proving they can or to annoy.I agree with other posters just because it is legal doesn't make it the most positive thing to do a particular time or place

"There is really no reason to Concealed Carry only someone proving they can or to annoy." That's a pretty accurate portrayal of my mother's opinion of concealed carry. She's HARDLY alone. You may have heard of former Governor of Ohio and U.S. Senator George Voinovich as well as the Ohio Highway Patrol. Perhaps you may also have heard of Barack Hussein Obama. I think he got elected to something in November of 2008. If we're going to cater to the whims of total strangers regarding open carry, shouldn't we similarly cater to the whims of these worthy personages regarding concealed carry, and indeed firearms OWNERSHIP?

Therefore everyone should tear up their concealed carry credentials and stop carrying, right? Heck, maybe we should look for the next gun buyback and just wash our hands of the whole mess...

 

[feralmerril]

Concealed carry means no one is suppose to see it. If you have the option of both why open carry unless you want to be in some ones face or "impress" kids?

 

[cmort666]

Concealed carry means no one is suppose to see it. If you have the option of both why open carry unless you want to be in some ones face or "impress" kids?

The police are there to "protect" us. Why carry a concealed firearm unless you're looking to kill somebody or to be a vigilante?

We both know that the above is a VERY popular sentiment in some circles, including my family. Why not cater to it as well?

 

[setxn]

It's legal in Texas to walk around in a leopard skin thong,but it is not commonly done. Kind of a concealed vs. open carry deal, can you do it-yes, should you do it-not unless it's to prove you can or annoy people.