Attn:KY, OH, TN, residents.

[Model29Lover]

I went to Joseph Beth Booksellers in Lexington Ky. (Davis Kidd in TN) with my wife tonight. We have been going there for years and my wife worked there for 3 years as a manager.
I've gone there countless times open carrying, with no incident, and I've made it a point to look for any "no concealed weapons" signs. So, I went there tonight carrying concealed as I have my CCDW, and after I took my light jacket off I was open carrying. KY is a pre-emptive open carry state, meaning no local government can override the open carry law. The only caveat is that private property owners can specify they don't want concealed carry on their premises, as all you guys are probably aware. They had no sign posted on their front door, which we entered. There we are in the back of the store reading magazines on a couch, when 6 uniformed officers surround me and tell me to stand. An officer takes my side-arm. They ask for my permit, and I say that I am not breaking any laws. I am a Police Studies major at E.K.U. and know for a fact that they have to have a sign posted by law. They escort me out and secure my side-arm in my truck. One officer said, "This is Lexington, you need to keep it concealed". The security at J.B.B. called the police after an anti-gun person told them I was carrying. I asked the officer where the sign was posted, and he said on another door. I know that KRS says the sign should be clearly and visible posted, and they sure do not have that covered. Also, they could have just asked me to leave. I was very cooperative and the officers were for the most part cordial, but they pretty much said, "give up your right to open carry cause of the anti-gun people." Please Boycott JOSEPH BETH BOOKSELLERS; they are anti-gun. Even their security said, "I have a CCDWL and they won't let me carry here either" Come on, these people need to get a clue. I will be calling NRA-ILA tomorrow to see if I have a case to sue.

 

[johngalt]

The Lexington police lied. You do NOT forfeit your right to open carry. I suggest you read the Kentucky forum at opencarry.org.

 

[dmar]

On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate it a 1 on being surprised that someone would call the police on somebody open carrying in a bookstore! I would say that I'm shocked that it did not happen on one of your earlier open carry visits to the Liberal bee hive...

Trust me, I share your values on being able to live your rights, but common sense, today, says that what you were doing, where you were doing it, just does not fly. Sad, but true... I'm a big believer in keeping the peace with the natives, by keeping any carry discrete. I suppose there is a lot to say for making the statement, by going around open carry, but I just would not be so surprised by the outcome.

I would also want to be aggressive in taking legal action, if my rights were violated. But, by the way you describe the events, I don't see it. The business is private property, and they have the right to throw you out. They should have better signage, but they still have the right to throw you out. Your rights to open carry do not apply to private property, private property is another important Constitutional right... They did point out, after the fact, that there is a sign prohibiting guns, so you must know now that you are not welcome there armed. I detest businesses that have that policy, avoid them all the time, but it's their call. I would write some letters to their executive management outling your concerns, but I can't believe a law suit would be successful.

As for calling the police, for all they know you could have been the latest pyscho that would be featured on CNN following a rampage. The store employee demonstrated reasonable prudence by calling the law, vs. trying to handle it him/herself. Again, just the way it is these days, bad stuff happens... Let's face it, the majority of people are not gun enthusiasts and/or rabid 2A supporters, especially when looking at a gun on someone's hip at the local bookstore... A person that is comfortable with, and around, guns would probably just have told you that you needed to put your gun in the car, but again, what do you expect in a book store...?

Not trying to detract from the cause, just illustrating the other side of the coin. I think it's lousy that you got hassled.

 

[65kaiser]

On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate it a 1 on being surprised that someone would call the police on somebody open carrying in a bookstore! I would say that I'm shocked that it did not happen on one of your earlier open carry visits to the Liberal bee hive...

Trust me, I share your values on being able to live your rights, but common sense, today, says that what you were doing, where you were doing it, just does not fly. Sad, but true... I'm a big believer in keeping the peace with the natives, by keeping any carry discrete. I suppose there is a lot to say for making the statement, by going around open carry, but I just would not be so surprised by the outcome.

I would also want to be aggressive in taking legal action, if my rights were violated. But, by the way you describe the events, I don't see it. The business is private property, and they have the right to throw you out. They should have better signage, but they still have the right to throw you out. Your rights to open carry do not apply to private property, private property is another important Constitutional right... They did point out, after the fact, that there is a sign prohibiting guns, so you must know now that you are not welcome there armed. I detest businesses that have that policy, avoid them all the time, but it's their call. I would write some letters to their executive management outling your concerns, but I can't believe a law suit would be successful.

As for calling the police, for all they know you could have been the latest pyscho that would be featured on CNN following a rampage. The store employee demonstrated reasonable prudence by calling the law, vs. trying to handle it him/herself. Again, just the way it is these days, bad stuff happens... Let's face it, the majority of people are not gun enthusiasts and/or rabid 2A supporters, especially when looking at a gun on someone's hip at the local bookstore... A person that is comfortable with, and around, guns would probably just have told you that you needed to put your gun in the car, but again, what do you expect in a book store...?

Not trying to detract from the cause, just illustrating the other side of the coin. I think it's lousy that you got hassled.

Very well stated.... Golf Clap!

 

[N2UF]

Hate to hear that... Davis Kidd here in Nashville is closing it's doors and from what I've heard they are filing for bankruptcy.

 

[LoadedRound]

In general Lexington police are less gun friendly than in most KY cities. I would expect a negative reaction to open carry in Lexington or Louisvile.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm not a fan of open carry, even in the states where it is legal. I know that, like you, there are folks out there who go out in public and open carry. Some of them feel like they are expressing their rights and some of them are looking for a confrontation. I don't see the value in this and don't think, in general, that it helps the cause of legitimate gun ownership. On the contrary, I think it could cause a public outcry for more restrictive gun laws. OTOH, if you feel like you were wronged, then you should fight for your rights in a court of law instead of taking your grievances to the court of public opinion.

 

[cballman]

After reading on this matter I will state my opinion. If you can carry concealed then do it but if you want to open carry then I would suggest you do not in a crowded area. After thinking about this I would probly called the police myself because they are a bunch of crazies out there. I know there might be laws favoring both sides but for anyone to open carry in a large store should be rethought. If you are a LEO then what would think if you heard of someone doing this in a crowded store? I know I will be flamed on this one but I know some of the laws and I am not going to cross some lines.

 

[pinduck]

Unless you are totally vigilant and alert at all times for any threat you may as well get a shirt that says SHOOT ME FIRST.
Flame away.

 

[cmort666]

If you are a LEO then what would think if you heard of someone doing this in a crowded store?

The LAW is what matters, NOT the OPINIONS of LEOs regarding it. If someone is engaged in a LAWFUL activity, they can like it or not. They CANNOT act contrary to law to curtail it without rightfully exposing themselves to civil liability. I'm no more bound by their opinions of open carry than they are by my opinions of Ohio's ban on carry in a liquor serving establishment. Obey and enforce the law as it's written or face the consequences in criminal or civil court.

The store has a right to post, or to ask you to leave for carrying. You have a right to spend your money elsewhere.

Outside of private property and statutory prohibited places, the police in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania to name a couple, have NO authority to curtail your legal right to lawfully open carry.

I've been hassled in public for wearing an NRA ballcap, so I have VANISHINGLY little concern for the asinine prejudices of malignant busybodies. Unlawful enforcement of OPINION as "law" by LEOs isn't going to fly AT ALL.

 

[gregintenn]

I equate open carry to breastfeeding in public. It isn't illegal, but there are acceptable places to do it, and there are places where it simply shows a lack of class. It isn't illegal to pick your nose either, but don't expect everyone to appreciate you doing it.

 

[cmort666]

I equate open carry to breastfeeding in public. It isn't illegal, but there are acceptable places to do it, and there are places where it simply shows a lack of class. It isn't illegal to pick your nose either, but don't expect everyone to appreciate you doing it.

Unfortunately, most of the people who don't want you to open carry in public don't want you to carry CONCEALED in public. It just makes them even angrier to SEE that they've so far been powerless to impose upon you a legal duty to be the victim of a violent predator.

I don't like to see two men kiss. It's not against the law. When two men do that in public, I don't call the police to enforce my extra-legal likes and dislikes. Instead, I look some place else.

In the VAST majority of cases I've seen, people who've had a VIOLENTLY negative reaction to seeing people open carry are the same sorts of people who have a similar reaction to interracial couples, same sex couples, people displaying religious symbols of a religion other than theirs (or alternately of any religion at all), people wearing firearms related clothing, etc. They strongly tend to be passive-aggressive bullies and malignant narcissists. I react BADLY to malignant narcissists and bullies. But then I grew up in an environment that taught me that caving to bullying just encourages more and escalated bullying.

 

[cmort666]

I'm not a fan of open carry, even in the states where it is legal. I know that, like you, there are folks out there who go out in public and open carry. Some of them feel like they are expressing their rights and some of them are looking for a confrontation. I don't see the value in this and don't think, in general, that it helps the cause of legitimate gun ownership. On the contrary, I think it could cause a public outcry for more restrictive gun laws. OTOH, if you feel like you were wronged, then you should fight for your rights in a court of law instead of taking your grievances to the court of public opinion.

That's the "Guantanamo" argument:

"People who hate me and want to destroy my rights, will hate me and want to destroy my rights even MORE if I exercise or protect those rights. Therefore, I won't exercise my rights or seek to protect them."

Al Qaeda already hates you and will CONTINUE to hate you, Guantanamo or no Guantanamo, until you become a Wahabist Muslim.

Anti-gunners already hate you and will CONTINUE to hate you, open carry or no open carry, until you agree to COMPLETELY give up your right to OWN firearms, never mind carry them, no matter HOW.

Australian, British and Canadian gun owners bent over and grabbed their ankles to be "popular". How's that working out for them?

 

[GF]

Buy books at Amazon.com, then you can carry your sidearm in peace and not give that bookstore any of your money.

GF

 

[cmort666]

Buy books at Amazon.com, then you can carry your sidearm in peace and not give that bookstore any of your money.

GF

Books a Million has a brick and mortar store across the street from where I used to work here. They're not posted. I go there armed all the time.

There's a book stores versus online sellers thread going on on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forums. I'm not dropping $120 for a book without physically looking through it first.

 

[rburg]

There are an increasing number of gun owners/carriers that I don't like very much. While it may be their right to carry, the way they do it is to offend others. Me included. A similar but maybe even worse group are the folks who loudly proclaim their right to carry into gun shows and gun shops. After seeing some terrible examples of gun handling, I tend to lean toward banning those folks from even coming indoors. I even tend to get more disgusted at them when I see them throwing a fit about their rights. Worse, I get this feeling they're gun owners worst enemies. Not for them wanting to exhibit their rights, but being jerks in the way they do it. I see us losing significant support from the voting public because of how some act. We're our own worst enemy.

If you want an example of how not to act and bad gun handling skills, spend an hour or two out in front of a large gun show. Be careful, his is a dangerous zone. Go stand off to one side and watch the cops or rent-a-cops clearing weapons and installing wire ties. Even a lot of them look pretty clueless (they seem to hire guys with very little gun handling experience.) But pay particular attention to the muzzle of customers guns, how they just casually sweep the others, and don't give it a thought. With open carry at least, I've observed those most vociferous about their own rights seem the least concerned with my safety. Maybe not all, but way too many.

And at a gun show about 20 years ago times were slow. Not a lot of customers, so the vendors and BSers were watching any action there was. One guy had swept us and the rest of the crowd a few times. Its beyond impolite. One of the guys in the next table down said "if he does that again, I'll yell "gun" and we should all hit the deck." he did, and we did! it was fun About a half dozen guys diving for cover. You should see the look on others faces. Most startled was the guy who had done it. Completely unaware of anyone but what he was interested it.

 

[BE Mike]

That's the "Guantanamo" argument:

"People who hate me and want to destroy my rights, will hate me and want to destroy my rights even MORE if I exercise or protect those rights. Therefore, I won't exercise my rights or seek to protect them."

Al Qaeda already hates you and will CONTINUE to hate you, Guantanamo or no Guantanamo, until you become a Wahabist Muslim.

Anti-gunners already hate you and will CONTINUE to hate you, open carry or no open carry, until you agree to COMPLETELY give up your right to OWN firearms, never mind carry them, no matter HOW.

Australian, British and Canadian gun owners bent over and grabbed their ankles to be "popular". How's that working out for them?

I'm not so concerned with trying to convert the antis. I am more concerned in what message open carry sends to those not committed to either side of the gun issue.

 

[cmort666]

I'm not so concerned with trying to convert the antis. I am more concerned in what message open carry sends to those not committed to either side of the gun issue.

The only "message" it sends where it's lawful is that you carry a gun. There are people who don't like that. Of course the same people don't like the idea that you COULD be carrying one concealed.

 

[feralmerril]

Dmar and dick burg said this far better than I could. I totaly agree with them. My big question is just how much open carrying is going on? People here talk like it`s common enough that I should see it and I next to never do! I am not talking messing around in the boonies, but in town. I live in utah that also has good gun laws but never see civilians carrying down town.
I had a close friend that always pushed his rights too and he lived a very troubled life. Dead now.

 

[cmort666]

I had a close friend that always pushed his rights too and he lived a very troubled life. Dead now.

What does that MEAN?

If you go along to get along, you MAY live a relatively untroubled life... for a while. That's what the Japanese did... until the B-29s showed up. Maybe if somebody had spoken up earlier, most of Tokyo wouldn't have ended up as charcoal...

If a couple of guys in D.C. and Chicago hadn't "pushed their rights", they probably would have lived less "troubled lives". And D.C. and Chicago would still have handgun bans. The same for those of us in Ohio who pushed for concealed carry and state preemption of firearms laws.

Australian, British and Canadian gun owners have NOT "pushed their rights". Maybe they're better off...