A little help on a gun please

[john14_18]

A local lady is selling some of her late husbands guns and this one is included. I do not know a lot about the older Smiths and I have not personally seen the gun yet but will look at it this weekend and currently this is the only picture I have. She says you can see 38 on it so I assume it is a 38 S&W.

My questions are

Is this a model 2? If not, what model.
Are the grips original for this era?
If gun is operable, what would value be?

Thank you in advance and have a Blessed Day!

 

[murphydog]

As many have noted, I am not the local S & W antique expert (glowe is a good candidate) but this appears to be a .38 Single Action 2nd model. The stocks are of the correct type, being made prior to the design of the S & W logo. Not worth big bucks in the pictured condition - $250? Hope this is helpful.

 

[s&wchad]

.38 Single Action 2nd Model Knock-Off???

I'm no expert on these antiques either, but I've never seen cylinder stop notches like that on a S&W. It's also missing a relief cut on the top strap at the front of the cylinder and the grips don't look right.

I suspect it's a foreign made counterfeit.

 

[deadin]

Here's a 38 Single Action 2nd Model.
You can see the differences as mentioned by Chad

 

[Camster]

On the real deal, the grip diamond appears to stand proud, while on the OP's, it appears to be recessed.
Caveat emptor.

 

[mmaher94087]

Agree. It's a copy. Read the barrel rib carefully as it may say "Smith & Wesson Pattern" in an attempt to deceive.

 

[john14_18]

Thank you for all of your assistance. I should be able to actually look at it this weekend. Thank again!

 

[BMur]

A put together

Outward appearance to me is that it's an assembled parts gun that does not function. Different makes and serial numbers obviously don't match. I believe it's a Smith frame but that cylinder is way wrong. It's not worth much. Non matching, mixed parts, very little finish and the action simply can not work so.....I'm not sure how to appraise this except for parts. Cuz ultimately that's what it is.
I'm also not remembering the Single Action having a 38 caliber stamp on the barrel? Which suggests it's a non matching top break barrel. Maybe even a double action barrel.

Murph

 

[tlay]

Gary will probably know more than I but I have worked on many top breaks and have many parts. I can't remember a S&W cylinder like that. I believe w is a copy. But if anyone knows more about it I would like to hear it!

 

[glowe]

Those stocks are early 38 SA. Most were found on 1st Model guns, but did appear on early 2nd Model 38s. Gustave Young designed the intertwined S&W Logo in 1879, so the block style logo should most likely be on a gun with a serial number below 50,000. Does the butt have a serial number?

Those stop notches are similar to many Belgium copies. Is there an oval with ELG stamped on the rear of the cylinder?

I believe it to be a Belgium copy. The top frame has the wrong transition from the barrel rib to the latch strap. All should look like deadin's with a upward curve. The OP's top strap is not the same. Also, the ejector shroud appears to be slightly longer than a S&W. It is well documented that Belgium gun makers did exact copies of many models of S&W revolvers, but normally not quite a mirror copy. The markings on the gun will tell the tale, since even Belgium did not copy the address and patent dates on the barrel rib. The stamping on an early 38 SA, 2nd should end with a 1871 patent, plus they are extreemely small characters 2 line stamps and always applied perfectly. Also, they did not stamp the numbers on the butt exactly like S&W. Most that I have seen were stamped with large numbers and many were stamped in places other than the butt. We will wait until you get a chance to inspect the gun in person.

 

[BMur]

Come on guys and gals. Would you buy this gun? What's the point of it being made in Belgium or parts of different U.S. guns? Simple question; what's it worth? Low dollars! What's the resale on it? Low dollars. Will it ever be worth something. Probably not! I'm trying to convince the OP to pass on it! Are you trying to get this person to buy this low dollar gun to satisfy your curiosity? I say " PASS" on it!!!

 

[glowe]

Who said anything about buying? We are trying to answer the OPs question - what is it? The members have simply tried to provide infpormation on how to identify it. Once that is done, the OP decides whether to buy it or at least how much to pay if interested. Personally, I would not want it, but the call is not mine, it is the OP's!

 

[BMur]

Surprise??

The only dollars & cents surprise I can see on this example would be an unexpected inscription? On the backstrap or the several sides we aren't seeing? Still, a long shot. Those " early grips" don't fit right either and even if they are real which isn't likely, they aren't in very good shape. Sure, go take a look at it but " Pass " if it's more than $50. I'll bet that little old lady wants some $$$ for her husbands guns!!!
I've run into this before.

 

[gmborkovic]

So if its bogus, give her $100. She may need it. Do something your mom would do. one step closer to the gate.

 

[john14_18]

Well, finally saw the mystery gun today and it is not a S&W. No markings on it and only 38 S&W on barrel. Cylinder spins like a roulette wheel and slides back and forth and bore was pitted about as bad as one I have ever seen.
This lady's husband was an acquaintance of mine that attended all the gun shows here in Birmingham. He had been collecting guns for about 40 years and most of them on his table were usually pretty nice so it surprised me to see this one in his collection. Maybe he took it in on a trade.She had just asked my opinion on it and I told her from what I could tell ,that it had very little value. She is in a financial position where she doesn't have to sell it so she thanked me and said she would just keep it for sentimental reasons. Sorry for all the trouble and thank all of you for your time and assistance.

 

[Blacklion66]

Just my 2 cents If it was a real Smith the front sight would be pinned