First of all . Hopfully this is the time and place to post this. Everybody may have a different opion ? This weekend I had to go to a false alarm call with my cousin. We both have a ccw. And yes the police where there several times before, This was not a wild west movie , with us storming in with guns. It was about as real as it gets for a civillian. We entered a huge gated industrial yard. Pitch black and full of equipment and such. Many, many hiding places. Then going into the building. The same . Huge , pitch black, and thousands of hiding places. Not to mention everything was totally unfarmiliar to me. Everything went about as good as it can , he was smart to bring his dog with him. No problems, However it made me think... I'm really considering getting some advanced training and for sure going to the range more often. I did not plan on this event , but things do happen, and I would like to be more prepared if something like this happens again. That's my two cents.
A little story.
- Thread starter WSmith
- Start date
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Well.....you know your situation there and I do not. About the only thing I see on your side is you knew the layout of the building and grounds.
That said, clearing or sweeping an area should only be done by professionals. Officers spend a lot of time training for such and many are injured while doing it. A short training course is not going to prepare you for proper clearing and it will not make the task any safer.
I would never suggest entering your home when you find it having been broken into. Police get paid for that and are usually good at doing so. It is far better to remain on the outside boundaries and let the police handle it.
I have been involved in both sides of this situtation and it can change for the worst very quickly. Because you are armed does not mean you are a trained police officer any more than owning an airplane makes you a pilot. Let the police handle it and you get to go home to your family.
That said, clearing or sweeping an area should only be done by professionals. Officers spend a lot of time training for such and many are injured while doing it. A short training course is not going to prepare you for proper clearing and it will not make the task any safer.
I would never suggest entering your home when you find it having been broken into. Police get paid for that and are usually good at doing so. It is far better to remain on the outside boundaries and let the police handle it.
I have been involved in both sides of this situtation and it can change for the worst very quickly. Because you are armed does not mean you are a trained police officer any more than owning an airplane makes you a pilot. Let the police handle it and you get to go home to your family.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
As a lockheed guard I responded to uncountable alarms. Probley sometimes several a night. Of course the vast majority were false alarms. On top of that we were regularly tested by goverment spooks. All this led to us/me being far too complacement on the responds. When you just know its a exercise in futility with the odd chance a security agent is going to be standing there with a stopwatch it tends to get a little old. On windy nights you could count on running your butt off.
Once I was working with another guard. One of us would man a gate and the other would make his detex rounds. I had ran mine, went and traded posts with him and he went. This was in burbank in the mid 60s. We would check the credit union building that wasnt behind fenceing but was street accessable. Someone had chopped his way down through the roof. My buddy bob went up a stairway to hit a key at top and noticed a light shineing through a door crack. Without thinking it out he assumed some clerk left the light on and he opened the door, reached in to turn the switch off. The burglar was ready for him with a iron bar. He hit bobs forearm, and bob thought he got a shock off the switch! Bob stuck his head in and the guy about brained him! Much later he gave me the story, but was probley not right for life!
I knew of a case where one guard had "it in" for another. There was a key in a dark outbuilding that you would open a door and reach in to key your clock in pitch dark. The guard knew of another door to it, worked his way in there and waited untill the guard slid the door open and flattened his nose!
I did catch a small handfull of intruders or whatever, but I dont know how many hundreds of false alarms over 35 years it took to do it.
Once I was working with another guard. One of us would man a gate and the other would make his detex rounds. I had ran mine, went and traded posts with him and he went. This was in burbank in the mid 60s. We would check the credit union building that wasnt behind fenceing but was street accessable. Someone had chopped his way down through the roof. My buddy bob went up a stairway to hit a key at top and noticed a light shineing through a door crack. Without thinking it out he assumed some clerk left the light on and he opened the door, reached in to turn the switch off. The burglar was ready for him with a iron bar. He hit bobs forearm, and bob thought he got a shock off the switch! Bob stuck his head in and the guy about brained him! Much later he gave me the story, but was probley not right for life!
I knew of a case where one guard had "it in" for another. There was a key in a dark outbuilding that you would open a door and reach in to key your clock in pitch dark. The guard knew of another door to it, worked his way in there and waited untill the guard slid the door open and flattened his nose!
I did catch a small handfull of intruders or whatever, but I dont know how many hundreds of false alarms over 35 years it took to do it.
I'm trying to imagine what sort of situation might cause me to enter and clear a facility--at night, no less--without body armor, night vision gear, and a squad or two of equally well-equipped and well-trained folks accompanying me.
Short of a member of my family being held inside said facility, I can't think of a thing. There is no inanimate object on this planet that's worth putting my life on the line for.
Short of a member of my family being held inside said facility, I can't think of a thing. There is no inanimate object on this planet that's worth putting my life on the line for.
Training is always a good idea, but entering and trying to clear such a large area and building was not the brightest of ideas for quite a few reasons. I have no idea what the LE agencies in that jurisdiction may have available but I can tell you that a situation such as you describe is tailor made for a Canine Team with back up officers on a perimeter outside. A single dog can search such a building or area better and in far less time than 20 trained officers, and for sure, better than two keyholders. 
It is a natural thing for some business people to be concerned about theur property, valuables, any money in safes, etc. but chances are that they won't help much by making entry. What they will accomplish, however, is to contaminate the scene for the Canine Team...more so if they take a dog in that marks the territory (yes LE Canines are trained to ignore that but it still splits their attention) On top of all that, the bad guy(s) may be waiting and trapped inside by you, He knows you are coming...do you know where HE is?
I'm not saying not to respond at all, but get there and wait for responding officers. Give them the key and alarm codes and...unless they tell you otherwise...leave it to them to do the clearing. This might not be applicable in a very small town or rural area, but even there at least let an officer respond and assist him / her if possible.
BTW...some thieves are smart enough to set off alarms and check response times and some will repeatedly set off the same alarm in hopes the officers / owners get tired of responding and cut it off...then they break in.
It is a natural thing for some business people to be concerned about theur property, valuables, any money in safes, etc. but chances are that they won't help much by making entry. What they will accomplish, however, is to contaminate the scene for the Canine Team...more so if they take a dog in that marks the territory (yes LE Canines are trained to ignore that but it still splits their attention) On top of all that, the bad guy(s) may be waiting and trapped inside by you, He knows you are coming...do you know where HE is?
I'm not saying not to respond at all, but get there and wait for responding officers. Give them the key and alarm codes and...unless they tell you otherwise...leave it to them to do the clearing. This might not be applicable in a very small town or rural area, but even there at least let an officer respond and assist him / her if possible.
BTW...some thieves are smart enough to set off alarms and check response times and some will repeatedly set off the same alarm in hopes the officers / owners get tired of responding and cut it off...then they break in.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Since I am retired and no longer work and that some of these "lighter" storys are 15 to 45 years old I will entertain you with a couple.
One holiday night when no one was in the plant where there always was thousands normaly, just I and the fire captain were on duty.
In a situation like that I would "prowl" all night through outlieing buildings, hangers, parking lots etc. I was takeing a tour through the main hanger building that probley was a couple acres of hanger floor that was very dimily lit about 03:00. I spotted the fire captain walking about in the middle carrying a metal clip board probley checking something. Capt Wagner was a friend of mine. I snuck up on him queitly. He seemed to sense something and would turn to look over his shoulder but I would step to the opposite side out of his sight. We did this a couple times and finaly he litteraly shook his head in sign of dissbelief. I couldnt resist. I walked up and jabbed him in the short ribs and sez, "How ya doing wag?" He threw the clipboard about 50 feet in the air and about got a heart attack! I shouldnt have done that, but it was fun!
Another time I had finished up my rounds and had 20 minuets on my hands before I was to return and releave my partner. It was about 04:00 and I decided to take "a power nap" in the test pilots lounge. Evidently we had a early flight I wasnt informed about and the door opens up and I knew I was busted. The guy who I knew was walking around looking for the light switch. I waited and as he turned it on yelled BOO!
After all, what else ya gonna do? He didnt appriciate my humor.
As far as being apprehensive, maybe I should have been but frankly I dont recall once ever being worried on that job as stated, but than I guess I never had any sense.
Another time the company sent me somewhere far away in a place that has to remain unnamed to guard a object out of uniform.
I arrived and knew nobody. I was given a radio and didnt know the people on the other end, then I was left probley 20 miles from the nearest pulse. Something drastic happened and I had to call for help. I had to wait about a half hour for the cavery to arrive. Far off I seen two vehicles comeing. The first was a old pickup with a old cowboy type in plaincloths like me with a cowboy hat walrus gray mustach. Following him were two air police or MPs? They put their AR 16s on me and I had to go through the "procuduer". (It wasnt my first at this). Then the cowboy type asks me who I am. I tell him my name and say who are you? He tells me he is God. I pull out my notebook and badge and ask him how do I spell God? That job was fun sometimes.
One holiday night when no one was in the plant where there always was thousands normaly, just I and the fire captain were on duty.
In a situation like that I would "prowl" all night through outlieing buildings, hangers, parking lots etc. I was takeing a tour through the main hanger building that probley was a couple acres of hanger floor that was very dimily lit about 03:00. I spotted the fire captain walking about in the middle carrying a metal clip board probley checking something. Capt Wagner was a friend of mine. I snuck up on him queitly. He seemed to sense something and would turn to look over his shoulder but I would step to the opposite side out of his sight. We did this a couple times and finaly he litteraly shook his head in sign of dissbelief. I couldnt resist. I walked up and jabbed him in the short ribs and sez, "How ya doing wag?" He threw the clipboard about 50 feet in the air and about got a heart attack! I shouldnt have done that, but it was fun!
Another time I had finished up my rounds and had 20 minuets on my hands before I was to return and releave my partner. It was about 04:00 and I decided to take "a power nap" in the test pilots lounge. Evidently we had a early flight I wasnt informed about and the door opens up and I knew I was busted. The guy who I knew was walking around looking for the light switch. I waited and as he turned it on yelled BOO!
After all, what else ya gonna do? He didnt appriciate my humor.
As far as being apprehensive, maybe I should have been but frankly I dont recall once ever being worried on that job as stated, but than I guess I never had any sense.
Another time the company sent me somewhere far away in a place that has to remain unnamed to guard a object out of uniform.
I arrived and knew nobody. I was given a radio and didnt know the people on the other end, then I was left probley 20 miles from the nearest pulse. Something drastic happened and I had to call for help. I had to wait about a half hour for the cavery to arrive. Far off I seen two vehicles comeing. The first was a old pickup with a old cowboy type in plaincloths like me with a cowboy hat walrus gray mustach. Following him were two air police or MPs? They put their AR 16s on me and I had to go through the "procuduer". (It wasnt my first at this). Then the cowboy type asks me who I am. I tell him my name and say who are you? He tells me he is God. I pull out my notebook and badge and ask him how do I spell God? That job was fun sometimes.
photoman
Member
Calling the dog unit and swat team every time the alarm goes off is not only silly, it flat out ain't gonna happen. When the alarm company calls, the first person on the call list has to go and silence the alarm. It's not a matter of being concerned for the company property (ha!). I live closest to the office so I'm the one that gets the call at 1:50am (last night as a matter of fact). Wait for the cops and let them do their job? Well, you'll be losing hours of sleep if you do.
None of us live in a perfect world so we all have to make compromises and live by the rule of odds. Go as prepared as you can.
None of us live in a perfect world so we all have to make compromises and live by the rule of odds. Go as prepared as you can.
Folks in the country, at least where I live, are pretty much expected to take care of this kind of stuff themselves. About the third time you call for a deputy from across the county to a false alarm, you will start getting rolled-eyes and "boy-who-cried-wolf" type responses. For women, it is different, but around here, a grown man who wouldn't immediately check his home or office when it has been broken in would elicit some raised eyebrows and snide remarks. Now, the situation in the OP is a little different. If it was my place of business, yeah, probably. I worked as a night watchman at an industrial plant when I was in college. I had a 100 lb German Shepherd who made it a lot more comfortable.
Yes, I am aware of all that, but IF Canine is available it IS the best way to go. I am retired as a Canine Supervisor in a medium sized metro area and you can bet we responded to any alarm of a warehouse at night...all night long. If your local agency does not have a dog, that is a different matter, or is too small to be able to have sufficient help, etc. I retired after some 30 years, and when I started we would sometimes have two deputies working 700+ square miles with NO backup at all...you did what you had to do. That doesn't make it smart, but clear all the buildings you like, by all means, it's your choice.
