A Message From Federal, CCI, Speer And Remington On Ammo

[Hair Trigger]

I believe ammo manufacturers will be tentative about increasing output as long as there's the threat of banning online sales.

Unless and until ammunition manufacturing itself is banned (and how will that ever happen), those manufacturers will be cranking out as much as they can. Online sales is only one of many ways they can market their product. The ban of online sales , while inconvenient, would only increase the sales at the brick-and-mortar stores, or direct sales from telephone orders (remember calling the company directly to order a product? That's how it was done before the internet).

As for the Federal Ammo guy's whining, I can sympathize; it's probably inconceivable how much mail they've received, and so far as open-air complaints about them conspiring or cutting production goes, just take a look at the number of posts on this website and multiply it by all firearms discussion forums. I'm somewhat surprised he didn't start spewing expletives.

These guys (the ammunition manufacturers) also have a supply chain to keep intact; if just one piece they need doesn't get delivered in sufficient quantity, or not at all, the entire production suffers. Sure, they're making profits like never before; I would hope they aren't taking advantage of the situation and reaming the customer by exorbitant prices on a wholesale level, but I'm sure they are charging more for their product, just like the oil companies charge more under periods of higher demand, or groceries when there are shortages due to crop failures or poor growing seasons. Those increased prices only get compounded at the retail level, and again, I only hope the retailers are only raising prices equivalent to the increased demand and decreased availability.

This past year has been like no other; a vitriolic and confrontational national election, in the midst of a health crisis like we haven't seen in 100 years which has stretched our patience, created panic and worry, and crippled the economy, and still has no end in sight.

I don't like it any more than anyone else, and I'm doing much of what everyone else is doing; collecting, saving (hoarding if that's what you want to call it, but I'm not to the point I can support a war yet) and as much as anything, hoping for improvement.

 

[Faulkner]

Informative videos both but I have to say that Jason Hornady is a lot more diplomatic in his video than Jason Vanderbrink from Vista Outdoor. I was a bit put off by Mr. Vanderbrink's arrogant, "I am getting tired" rant, which I perceived as "Look, you ignorant hillbillies, quit bothering me with your stupid rumor and conspiracy theories but please continue buy our ammunition anyway whenever it's available." I can understand his frustration but maybe he should take the time to brush up on his verbal communications skills before making another video. Addressing customers like that doesn't work for me.

Maybe starting off with "Thank you for being a customer" as Mr. Hornady did, would help.

I've been on the receiving end of a significant number of phone calls and emails from the ignorant masses about something they know very little about but they want to complain anyway. Personally, I think Jason Vanderbrink demonstrated a great deal of restraint, considering the unfounded figurative beating he's taken.

 

[gen3guy]

If I were him, I would have also mentioned the irrational mass-hysteria that people go through every time something out of the ordinary, or something we don't like happens. If you think you need ammo just in case, then stock up before "just in case" happens. I hope those 7 million new gun owners don't hurt themselves. The local outdoor range here is offering free half hour instruction/training for al new gun owners.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Just based on what I read on social media pages -- the wild rumors and hysterical speculation -- I can only imagine what Mr. Vanderbrink has to put up with; I fully understand his frustration.

His point about the number of new shooters is very interesting...7,000,000! That's amazing! I see this as something that can only help the cause of gun rights.

Supply will catch up with demand eventually...we all just have to be a little patient.

 

[PPS1980]

I've been on the receiving end of a significant number of phone calls and emails from the ignorant masses about something they know very little about but they want to complain anyway. Personally, I think Jason Vanderbrink demonstrated a great deal of restraint, considering the unfounded figurative beating he's taken.

First, after he stops whining its a pretty good video. But sorry, as CEO that is why he makes the big bucks. It is NEVER ok to rant, blame, or condescend to your customers. Someone put it well in the other thread on this topic - there is a lot more talk about brand/company loyalty than there is company loyalty to customers these days.

 

[Puller]

First, after he stops whining its a pretty good video. But sorry, as CEO that is why he makes the big bucks. It is NEVER ok to rant, blame, or condescend to your customers. Someone put it well in the other thread on this topic - there is a lot more talk about brand/company loyalty than there is company loyalty to customers these days.

I would suspect the volume of nasty communications is so great that this is how Mr. Vanderbrink's determined would be the best way to reply to the unfounded, rude, complainers.

Frankly, social media has ruined how Americans communicate with one another.

 

[PPS1980]

If I were him, I would have also mentioned the irrational mass-hysteria that people go through every time something out of the ordinary, or something we don't like happens. If you think you need ammo just in case, then stock up before "just in case" happens. I hope those 7 million new gun owners don't hurt themselves. The local outdoor range here is offering free half hour instruction/training for al new gun owners.

And I might have mentioned the shortage in primers that is impacting everyone. Nice to hear your range is offering free safety/orientation for new owners - good for them!

 

[LVSteve]

First, after he stops whining its a pretty good video. But sorry, as CEO that is why he makes the big bucks. It is NEVER ok to rant, blame, or condescend to your customers. Someone put it well in the other thread on this topic - there is a lot more talk about brand/company loyalty than there is company loyalty to customers these days.

I understand what you are saying, but we all have limits. Being bombarded non-stop for months by conspiracy theory fueled nut jobs would certainly test mine.

 

[hittman77]

Finally, a CEO not afraid to address the ignorant/hateful segment of his customer base with all the respect they deserve.

Wish I had learned much earlier in my career that its okay to offend and/or fire a customer who is more trouble than they're worth.

Hopefully so many will be offended that the rest of us can find all we want on the shelves soon. He won't be lacking for appreciative customers for many years to come.

 

[BC38]

As I have stated in another thread about the above, $0.70rd for 5.56x45mm is NOT a bad price at this point in time.

For those who expect "everyone" to hold off buying, in order to drive prices down...
"...dream on 'cause it ain't goin'a happen so get used to it.

On the other hand, 7 million new gun owners this year, does NOT sound like, "...we're goin'a take all yer guns away..." to me. Far from it.

How about 7% increase in new gun owners? Because that is what 7 million is since there were already 100 million gun owners.

How does 2.1% more of the US population became gun owners sound? Because that is what 7 million in a population of 330 million is, just 2.1%

Do you really think that relatively small increase in our numbers will be enough to stop or even slow down the left? Here's another data point to put it in perspective. More than ten TIMES that many voted for President Trump. Does that appear to be working out for us?

While 7 million is a significant increase in the number of gun owners, and their purchases have had an impact on an industry that wasn't prepared for it, that certainly isn't any reason to smugly think we're in any kind of majority or that we're safe now, or that the left isn't going to proceed with their plans and STATED THREATS to disarm us. Especially now that they will have at least 2 if not all 3 of the centers of power (Presidency, House, and Senate).

If you think 7 million new gun owners secures our rights, I think you're whistling past the graveyard. Just like thinking 70 cents a round for ammo is a "good deal", I honestly don't understand your thought process.

 

[PPS1980]

I understand what you are saying, but we all have limits. Being bombarded non-stop for months by conspiracy theory fueled nut jobs would certainly test mine.

I hear you. Not everyone is cut out to be the President/CEO of a public company. But, if you get the big bucks and sit in the big chair than you should be able to suck it up, smile, and do your job without whining. Saying something specific to individual customers that have crossed a line is one thing, broadcasting such comments (quite literally) to the entire world is completely different. No, this isn't getting respect as some have argued - its behaving in a way that marginalizes your final (and important) message.

 

[Dave Lively]

Over the last 9 months:
7 million NEW gun owners x 100 rounds (2 boxes) each = 7 HUNDRED MILLION rounds of ammo sales in 9 months. And that is assuming that on average they only bought two boxes each, which seems like a pretty conservative estimate.

While that is a lot of ammo it is going to be a short term blip, not the cause of a permanent shortage.

Not everyone that buys a gun becomes a shooter. A lot of those new gun owners bought one because they were scared and having checked "Buy a gun" off their todo list are going to load the their new gun and tell themselves they will go to a range or take a class once COVID is over but never do it.

A different take on the math is that the National Shooting Sports Foundation estimates that there were 8.7 billion rounds of ammo sold in 2018. There are about 400 million guns in the US. Actually 265 million to 600 million depending who you ask but I am going with 400. That works out to 22 rounds of ammo per gun. So 7 million more guns would only raise ammo consumption by less than 2%.

The people buying big quantities of ammo and driving up prices are people that were gun enthusiasts before 2020 and are worried they will run low on ammo unless they buy as much as possible right now. About 3% of the US population own 50% of the total guns since us enthusiasts always seem to find room for one more in the safe. The same is true for ammo consumption. This shortage, like the past ones, is being driven by those of us that go to the range regularly. We are the ones panic buying and driving up prices, not new shooters.

 

[prairieviper]

I've been on the receiving end of a significant number of phone calls and emails from the ignorant masses about something they know very little about but they want to complain anyway. Personally, I think Jason Vanderbrink demonstrated a great deal of restraint, considering the unfounded figurative beating he's taken.

I too have been on the receiving end of complaints, insults and tirades from individuals and groups that had little or no understanding of the issue at hand. It was part of my job to help them to understand without appearing condescending or rude. Sometimes those individuals or groups went away feeling better and with a better understanding of our side of things and sometimes they didn't but they could never truthfully say that they went away feeling insulted.

As a leader, whether in the private sector or public, handling stress is part of your job and nothing is to be gained by talking down to people. Being arrogant, curt or snarky to others certainly reflects poorly on the person who does it and often on the organization one represents. I believe that Mr. Hornady's manner of relating the same message was much better than Mr. Vanderbrink's and almost certainly better received by most who have watched both videos.

This post will end my remarks on this subject and I apologize for the thread drift.

 

[nedlate]

That is a significant question that needs to be answered before the existing producers contemplate facilities expansion.

In my opinion, the best move for our ammunition manufacturers is to run three shifts, lay in a supply of extra parts for the machinery, and do the best they can to do scheduled maintenance during the weekends.

Our local plants run 7 days a week, 2 shifts a day. Maintenance is done during breakdowns, unfortunately! Machinery parts are being produced continuously.

I bet a person with good references and work ethic could get a job, if you don't mind working off shifts!

Or so I hear locally, I have been wrong before!

Ed

 

[dbell54]

...This shortage, like the past ones, is being driven by those of us that go to the range regularly. We are the ones panic buying and driving up prices, not new shooters.

Or at least those of us who never anticipated such a scenario and bought it when it was cheap and available.

 

[LCC]

has anybody offered him some cheese to go with that whine?

Folks seriously ill with thousands dying, millions out of work, tens of thousands of small business's permanently closed, and he's "I'm tired, I'm tired..."

If I was a board member of his company, I'd be asking for no confidence vote meeting

 

[Dave Lively]

Or at least those of us who never anticipated such a scenario and bought it when it was cheap and available.

Preaching to the choir here.

But when I ask long time shooters why they didn't see this coming and stock up they often have have valid reasons. Including these:

1 - If I have a lot of ammo laying around I go to the range more often and shoot more rounds when I do. I cannot afford to shoot that much.

2 - My wife would get mad if I bought a 2, $200 cases of ammo once a year but doesn't mind or notice if I buy 4, $10 boxes once a month.

3 - I have young kids in the house and do not feel comfortable having ammo that is not locked up in the house. Not enough room in my safe for guns and that much ammo.

4 - I worry about theft and do not want to have thousands of dollars worth of ammo lying around. And worry that putting it into a safe might create a bomb if there was a fire.

 

[Jon651]

Count me in as one who will cut these manufacturers a little slack right now. If they had not increased production I would be ticked off, and rightfully so - but they increased their production and shipping as much as they could so I feel it's reasonable to be at least a little understanding of their issues right now.

As for the guy in the first video being grumpy, I also understand that anyone can only take being the butt of just so many conspiracy theories, false facts and stories, and hate mail before you just have to say something. Everybody has their own personal frustration level and I'm pretty sure his tank was over-full by now! We all pop off every now and again, and he has the same right to as the rest of us!

Even if you don't agree with his method, you do have to admit he got our attention...

 

[Puller]

Being arrogant, curt or snarky to others . . . .

. . . . seems to be the new way Americans communicate with each other thanks to social media.

 

[rockquarry]

The Speer/CCI guy is dealing with the often rude, arrogant, and impatient "want it right now" Internet/ cell phone/ text messaging crowd, many of whom lack the maturity to accept the situation as it is. Things will get better, though not by tomorrow.

With these shortages occurring regularly over the past twenty-five years, one would think the complainers would stock up when products are cheap and plentiful, but that requires some foresight that perhaps many of them just don't have.

I think the Speer/ CCI guy handled the matter quite reasonably considering the demeanor of much of the crowd he had to deal with.