Thanks cyrano. I'll give it a try.
A pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester thread **New info 3/10/11**
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Thanks cyrano. I'll give it a try.
Steve in Vermont
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Pre 64 Model 70
I have a pre 64 Featherweight 30-06 with a Bushnell 4X post scope. Great deer rifle but not in as good a shape as those I've seen so far. My first deer rifle was a Marlin .35 caliber lever action but I now have a Marlin .44 Model 1894 that makes a great rifle for close (swamp) hunting and doubles for home defense. Nice to see people taking such good care of these fine firearms. Steve in Vermont.
I have a pre 64 Featherweight 30-06 with a Bushnell 4X post scope. Great deer rifle but not in as good a shape as those I've seen so far. My first deer rifle was a Marlin .35 caliber lever action but I now have a Marlin .44 Model 1894 that makes a great rifle for close (swamp) hunting and doubles for home defense. Nice to see people taking such good care of these fine firearms. Steve in Vermont.
Two pre 64's.
1949 vintage standard sporter 30-06. All original, shows a little use, but nice.
Also have a post war 300 H&H. Has been rebuled and an aftermarket pad added.
Also two post 64's.
Classic featherweight 30-06 I bought new and is what I hunt with the most.
Older push feed Heavy Varmit in .223. Blued action, stainless heavy 26" barrel in a HS stock, all factory. It puts 50gr balistic tips in the same hole if you do your part.
1949 vintage standard sporter 30-06. All original, shows a little use, but nice.
Also have a post war 300 H&H. Has been rebuled and an aftermarket pad added.
Also two post 64's.
Classic featherweight 30-06 I bought new and is what I hunt with the most.
Older push feed Heavy Varmit in .223. Blued action, stainless heavy 26" barrel in a HS stock, all factory. It puts 50gr balistic tips in the same hole if you do your part.
wraco
Member
I have one I hope someone here could explain. I purchased this from a trustworthy man I've known for years. He says he ordered this rifle new for his friend in the late 50's. He bought it back from the friend's widow after his death and sold it to me. The gun is supposedly unaltered, and appears so to me, as it is in immaculate condition. It is a Featherweight 243, and the serial number is 113xxx. That's too early for this configuration!!! Could Winchester have had some actions laid back and used them at a later date? Can you get a letter on them like an S&W?
Greg:
The receiver of your Model 70 was stamped at the Winchester factory the first half of 1949. Two new calibers were brought in during 1955, between serial numbers 323,531 to 363, 025, the 358 Win. and the 243 Win, both based on the 308 Win case.
Are you certain you're reading the serial correctly, the first number wouldn't be a 4 maybe? The Monte Carlo stock showed up around 1952.
Here's two I picked up just before Christmas. A 1950 Supergrade and a 243 Featherweight. I'm at 13 pre-64 M70's and 1 M54.
Rod
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gregintenn
Member
No sir! It's a crisp, clear #1. That's what threw me as well. I just imagine that action layed around the factory for years for some reason beofer someone picked it up one day and used it. If not, I don't know. I really don't think the rifle has been messed with.
wraco
Member
Greg:
Your 243 F/W looks just like the 243 F/W I just bought. Winchester did have running changes because containers of components were not used in any specific order as nothing was discarded regardless of an update in component changes. So the new updates were fazed in as the assembly line bins emptied.
In Roger Rules book he describes how some 338 and 264 win mag would show up with serial numbers dated 2 to 3 years before these models were produced. Reason being, the receivers were serial # stamped and put aside, for whatever reason, and used at a later date. Same with the dates on some barrels, they can be 2-3 years earlier than the receiver. By the mid 50's Winchester stopped stamping the barrel date on the barrels.
My 243 F/W is a tad unusal as well. It was made in very late 1959, earlier 1960 and has an aluminum buttplate. Most F/W's by that time had the composite buttplate. But again, Winchester did not waste parts and used what was there within reach. Near the end of the run, they came across some F/W stocks with aluminum buttplates and sent them on out.
The odd thing with your F/W is, the serial number predates the first 243's by 5 years and if your's is late 50's, even more so. I'm certain that Cody has the records for the pre-64 M70. Yours would be worth a letter as it may be a rare oddity and have a special collector interest.
Rod
Your 243 F/W looks just like the 243 F/W I just bought. Winchester did have running changes because containers of components were not used in any specific order as nothing was discarded regardless of an update in component changes. So the new updates were fazed in as the assembly line bins emptied.
In Roger Rules book he describes how some 338 and 264 win mag would show up with serial numbers dated 2 to 3 years before these models were produced. Reason being, the receivers were serial # stamped and put aside, for whatever reason, and used at a later date. Same with the dates on some barrels, they can be 2-3 years earlier than the receiver. By the mid 50's Winchester stopped stamping the barrel date on the barrels.
My 243 F/W is a tad unusal as well. It was made in very late 1959, earlier 1960 and has an aluminum buttplate. Most F/W's by that time had the composite buttplate. But again, Winchester did not waste parts and used what was there within reach. Near the end of the run, they came across some F/W stocks with aluminum buttplates and sent them on out.
The odd thing with your F/W is, the serial number predates the first 243's by 5 years and if your's is late 50's, even more so. I'm certain that Cody has the records for the pre-64 M70. Yours would be worth a letter as it may be a rare oddity and have a special collector interest.
Rod
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gregintenn
Member
Thanks for the info, Rod. I believe I will ask for a letter.
gregintenn
Member
I just took it apart and looked...the underside of the barrel has no marking, save for a small index mark dead centerr of the bottom where the barrel meets the reciever. Mine has an aluminum buttplate that is black. The museum in Cody doesn't appear to have records for model 70 made this late.
It appears there was a fire in the late 50's, and a lot of the records were destroyed in it. I guess I'll never know.
It appears there was a fire in the late 50's, and a lot of the records were destroyed in it. I guess I'll never know.
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OP
Some history on the pre-'64 Model 70
I thought you might enjoy some history I uncovered on the "pre-1964" Winchester Model 70.
John
It was called "the rifleman's rifle." The pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 has long been noted by many experts as perhaps the best bolt action hunting rifle ever made. Its predecessor was the Model 54, which was produced from 1925 to 1936. This was a fine bolt action rifle, but the bolt, safety and stock were not designed for the use of telescopic sights.
The much-improved prototype Model 70s were first produced in 1935. Nineteen rifles were manufactured in that year, but none left the factory. In 1936, the first production guns were warehoused (through serial number 2,238). In 1937, these were cataloged and sales began. The Model 70 continued many of the features of the Model 54 including the 1903 Springfield-type coned barrel breech, the dual front locking lugs, the receiver-mounted ejector, and the Mauser-style non-rotating extractor which gave controlled cartridge feeding. A gas port was placed on the right side of the receiver ring, allowing gas from a possible punctured primer to escape without being directed to the shooter's face. The military-type wing safety of the Model 54 was scrapped and replaced with a bolt-sleeve safety working in the horizontal plane, allowing mounting of scope sights. The stamped one-piece trigger guard/floorplate of the preceding rifle was abandoned for one with a milled trigger guard and a hinged floorplate incorporating a plunger release. The bolt sleeve was re-contoured to a more attractive contour. While the Model 54 had a trigger-actuated bolt release, the Model 70 had a receiver-mounted bolt stop separate from the trigger. Finally, the new trigger mechanism, which was no longer encumbered by also being a bolt stop, was simple and easily adjustable by the user for weight of pull and for overtravel.
From 1937 until 1964, the Model 70 went through a number of cosmetic and mechanical changes. The original thumbpiece safety (which entered the field of vision when in the safe position) was modified with a transitional and later perfected thumbpiece. These latter two safeties operated on the right side of the bolt sleeve and operated silently with three positions – fire, safe with bolt manipulation possible, and safe with a locked bolt. This arrangement has been widely copied on custom and prestige rifles today. The shape of the receiver tang was altered from a cloverleaf to an elliptical configuration in later production to lessen the chance of a split stock in that area. Early and transition guns had an enlarged-diameter section on the barrel which mounted the rear sight and accepted a forward (third) stock screw.
Pre-World War II rifles (up to early 1942) have serial numbers from 1 to about 60,500. The bolt shrouds on these will be flat on top rather than round, and the bolt handle will have a 90-degree step at the base. Pre-war rifles will all have charger clip slots in the front of the rear receiver bridge. Later (transition) guns had these only by special order or on the target rifles in .30-06 only. These early guns will not be drilled and tapped on top of the receiver for scope mounts. However, they will have two drilled and tapped holes on the left side of the receiver for peep sights; early scope mounts also utilized these holes for scope mounting.
"Transition" guns were made from 1945 until 1951. Serial numbers ranged from 60,500 to 87,000 on the standard actions, and from 63,200 to 121,700 for magnum actions. Apparently two assembly lines were used for these two different actions. The safety was changed so it was swung to the muzzle to fire. These rifles have two scope mounting holes on the rear bridge, and the top of the receiver had no recessed wavy lines as did later production. The rifle illustrated is a standard transitional rifle in caliber .30-06, manufactured in 1949. As a point of information, most rifles have the year of manufacture stamped on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the receiver.
Final pre-1964 production was carried out through late 1963, ending at serial number 581,471. The safeties on these had an extension which projected over the side of the sleeve. In 1964, Winchester could no longer afford making Model 70s the old way, which was to virtually hand-craft them. Skilled labor was costly. The "new" Model 70 which featured cheaper construction, a push-feed action, sloppy barrel free-floating with an unsightly excessive gap and impressed checkering, started at serial number 700,000. The era of quality had come to a grinding halt.
Standard grade rifles featured plain walnut stocks with hand checkering on the fore end and the handgrip area. Monte Carlo (elevated comb) stocks were offered on special order or in later production as a standard item. Most had 24" barrels. Featherweight guns were introduced in 1952. These featured a shorter 22" barrel with no rear sight boss, and the trigger guard and magazine cover were made of black anodized aluminum. The buttplate was also aluminum instead of steel, and the stock had two 7-inch holes drilled under the buttplate. The Super grade guns had rather bulky cast quick-detachable sling swivel bases. The magazine covers for these had "SUPER GRADE" stamped on them. Redfield sourdough front sights were used, and the wood was a higher grade with more figure and deluxe wrap-around checkering. These had grip caps and black forend tips. They usually have engine-turned decorative polishing swirls on the bolts. The Westerner rifles were available in either .264 or 300 Win. magnum, and had 26" barrels. The Alaskan versions were chambered in either .338 Win. magnum or .375 H&H magnum, and had 25" barrels. The African rifles were chambered in .458 Win. magnum and had 25" barrels. Other versions were the "carbine" with a 20" barrel (1936-1946), Super grade Featherweight, Super grade African, National Match, Target, Bull Gun, and Varmint. Calibers ranged from .22 Hornet to .458 Win. magnum. All actions were "long", with blocks in the magazine to accommodate the shorter cartridges such as the .308 Winchester and .243.
Pre-1964 rifles have a mystique of their own. They were hand fitted and great care was taken in their manufacture. Minute of angle or sub-MOA groups were usually achieved. The Mauser-type action enabled controlled feeding, and chambering was reliable even upside down. The demand for a return to the pre-'64 action resulted in its eventual re-introduction as the "Classic" rifle by Winchester, although it was not strictly faithful to the original design. Winchester no longer makes firearms in New Haven, Connecticut, but the modern FN-owned facility in Columbia, SC is producing new Model 70s resembling the originals. These have a different trigger assembly and vary in smaller details.
The pre-1964 Model 70s have achieved cult status, and demand is high for examples in good clean condition. The "rifleman's rifle," when found, will command a substantial price, with the rarer calibers bringing premium sums. Accurate, refined, ergonomic, reliable and aesthetically pleasing, they are classic in every sense of the word.
I thought you might enjoy some history I uncovered on the "pre-1964" Winchester Model 70.
John
It was called "the rifleman's rifle." The pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 has long been noted by many experts as perhaps the best bolt action hunting rifle ever made. Its predecessor was the Model 54, which was produced from 1925 to 1936. This was a fine bolt action rifle, but the bolt, safety and stock were not designed for the use of telescopic sights.
The much-improved prototype Model 70s were first produced in 1935. Nineteen rifles were manufactured in that year, but none left the factory. In 1936, the first production guns were warehoused (through serial number 2,238). In 1937, these were cataloged and sales began. The Model 70 continued many of the features of the Model 54 including the 1903 Springfield-type coned barrel breech, the dual front locking lugs, the receiver-mounted ejector, and the Mauser-style non-rotating extractor which gave controlled cartridge feeding. A gas port was placed on the right side of the receiver ring, allowing gas from a possible punctured primer to escape without being directed to the shooter's face. The military-type wing safety of the Model 54 was scrapped and replaced with a bolt-sleeve safety working in the horizontal plane, allowing mounting of scope sights. The stamped one-piece trigger guard/floorplate of the preceding rifle was abandoned for one with a milled trigger guard and a hinged floorplate incorporating a plunger release. The bolt sleeve was re-contoured to a more attractive contour. While the Model 54 had a trigger-actuated bolt release, the Model 70 had a receiver-mounted bolt stop separate from the trigger. Finally, the new trigger mechanism, which was no longer encumbered by also being a bolt stop, was simple and easily adjustable by the user for weight of pull and for overtravel.
From 1937 until 1964, the Model 70 went through a number of cosmetic and mechanical changes. The original thumbpiece safety (which entered the field of vision when in the safe position) was modified with a transitional and later perfected thumbpiece. These latter two safeties operated on the right side of the bolt sleeve and operated silently with three positions – fire, safe with bolt manipulation possible, and safe with a locked bolt. This arrangement has been widely copied on custom and prestige rifles today. The shape of the receiver tang was altered from a cloverleaf to an elliptical configuration in later production to lessen the chance of a split stock in that area. Early and transition guns had an enlarged-diameter section on the barrel which mounted the rear sight and accepted a forward (third) stock screw.
Pre-World War II rifles (up to early 1942) have serial numbers from 1 to about 60,500. The bolt shrouds on these will be flat on top rather than round, and the bolt handle will have a 90-degree step at the base. Pre-war rifles will all have charger clip slots in the front of the rear receiver bridge. Later (transition) guns had these only by special order or on the target rifles in .30-06 only. These early guns will not be drilled and tapped on top of the receiver for scope mounts. However, they will have two drilled and tapped holes on the left side of the receiver for peep sights; early scope mounts also utilized these holes for scope mounting.
"Transition" guns were made from 1945 until 1951. Serial numbers ranged from 60,500 to 87,000 on the standard actions, and from 63,200 to 121,700 for magnum actions. Apparently two assembly lines were used for these two different actions. The safety was changed so it was swung to the muzzle to fire. These rifles have two scope mounting holes on the rear bridge, and the top of the receiver had no recessed wavy lines as did later production. The rifle illustrated is a standard transitional rifle in caliber .30-06, manufactured in 1949. As a point of information, most rifles have the year of manufacture stamped on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the receiver.
Final pre-1964 production was carried out through late 1963, ending at serial number 581,471. The safeties on these had an extension which projected over the side of the sleeve. In 1964, Winchester could no longer afford making Model 70s the old way, which was to virtually hand-craft them. Skilled labor was costly. The "new" Model 70 which featured cheaper construction, a push-feed action, sloppy barrel free-floating with an unsightly excessive gap and impressed checkering, started at serial number 700,000. The era of quality had come to a grinding halt.
Standard grade rifles featured plain walnut stocks with hand checkering on the fore end and the handgrip area. Monte Carlo (elevated comb) stocks were offered on special order or in later production as a standard item. Most had 24" barrels. Featherweight guns were introduced in 1952. These featured a shorter 22" barrel with no rear sight boss, and the trigger guard and magazine cover were made of black anodized aluminum. The buttplate was also aluminum instead of steel, and the stock had two 7-inch holes drilled under the buttplate. The Super grade guns had rather bulky cast quick-detachable sling swivel bases. The magazine covers for these had "SUPER GRADE" stamped on them. Redfield sourdough front sights were used, and the wood was a higher grade with more figure and deluxe wrap-around checkering. These had grip caps and black forend tips. They usually have engine-turned decorative polishing swirls on the bolts. The Westerner rifles were available in either .264 or 300 Win. magnum, and had 26" barrels. The Alaskan versions were chambered in either .338 Win. magnum or .375 H&H magnum, and had 25" barrels. The African rifles were chambered in .458 Win. magnum and had 25" barrels. Other versions were the "carbine" with a 20" barrel (1936-1946), Super grade Featherweight, Super grade African, National Match, Target, Bull Gun, and Varmint. Calibers ranged from .22 Hornet to .458 Win. magnum. All actions were "long", with blocks in the magazine to accommodate the shorter cartridges such as the .308 Winchester and .243.
Pre-1964 rifles have a mystique of their own. They were hand fitted and great care was taken in their manufacture. Minute of angle or sub-MOA groups were usually achieved. The Mauser-type action enabled controlled feeding, and chambering was reliable even upside down. The demand for a return to the pre-'64 action resulted in its eventual re-introduction as the "Classic" rifle by Winchester, although it was not strictly faithful to the original design. Winchester no longer makes firearms in New Haven, Connecticut, but the modern FN-owned facility in Columbia, SC is producing new Model 70s resembling the originals. These have a different trigger assembly and vary in smaller details.
The pre-1964 Model 70s have achieved cult status, and demand is high for examples in good clean condition. The "rifleman's rifle," when found, will command a substantial price, with the rarer calibers bringing premium sums. Accurate, refined, ergonomic, reliable and aesthetically pleasing, they are classic in every sense of the word.
OP
Article on the pre-'64 Model 70
The current (June 2011) issue of Dillon's Blue Press catalog/magazine features the article I wrote on the pre-'64 Model 70. Here's a quick snapshot of it. As always, it's copyrighted to Dillon Precision.
Subscriptions to the Blue Press are free for the asking, and may be ordered by calling Dillon Precision at 1-800-223-4570.
John
The current (June 2011) issue of Dillon's Blue Press catalog/magazine features the article I wrote on the pre-'64 Model 70. Here's a quick snapshot of it. As always, it's copyrighted to Dillon Precision.
Subscriptions to the Blue Press are free for the asking, and may be ordered by calling Dillon Precision at 1-800-223-4570.
John
wraco
Member
For anyone serious in collecting pre-64 Model 70's, Roger Rule's Book, "The American Rifleman" is very usefull. It'll tell you what you need to know.
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tom from thompson ranch
I recently was gifted a Winchester model 70 Pre 64 in 264 win. mag. Ser.#505xxx the rifle was missing the bolt action. I need info on what bolt i should be looking for. My understanding is that I need a magnum bolt and need it fitted to the rifle. I don't want to buy the wrong one. Any info. would be appreciated.
Thanks Tom
I recently was gifted a Winchester model 70 Pre 64 in 264 win. mag. Ser.#505xxx the rifle was missing the bolt action. I need info on what bolt i should be looking for. My understanding is that I need a magnum bolt and need it fitted to the rifle. I don't want to buy the wrong one. Any info. would be appreciated.
Thanks Tom
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
posted earlier
Here is a pic of a M54 that was topic of much conversation. but I never got a definitive ship date. It apparently lapped over into M70 production time. Anyone else that might have one like this, I would appreciate any info as to Mfg. date.
Thanks
_________
~~Terry~~
Here is a pic of a M54 that was topic of much conversation. but I never got a definitive ship date. It apparently lapped over into M70 production time. Anyone else that might have one like this, I would appreciate any info as to Mfg. date.
Thanks
_________
~~Terry~~
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My Rifle
I have some doubts on my rifle, since the stock doesn't seem to be a super grade (not as far as Ive seen on pictures) but the rifle sure says so.
Its a 308 Featherweight Super Grade M70 Pre 64.
Here are some pictures for you to chip in with your experience/history about my loved rifle.
SN 233XXX, it has the featherweight and super grade engravings on the barrel and SG on the floor plate (aluminum).
Thanks a lot!!
I have some doubts on my rifle, since the stock doesn't seem to be a super grade (not as far as Ive seen on pictures) but the rifle sure says so.
Its a 308 Featherweight Super Grade M70 Pre 64.
Here are some pictures for you to chip in with your experience/history about my loved rifle.
SN 233XXX, it has the featherweight and super grade engravings on the barrel and SG on the floor plate (aluminum).
Thanks a lot!!
Attachments
CRAWLMACHINE, welcome. I have collected and studied this model for over 4 decades so I do have a little knowledge on the subject. Sorry to say that while this is a nice looking rifle with a hideous scope installed on it, it is not a supergrade. Winchester never wrote supergrade on the barrel by the sight. It wrote it underneath the barrel and can only be viewed when the action is removed from the wood. Next supergrade swivels are entirely different from the swivels you have. On original supergrades, the words supergrade are stamped onto the floorplate. So while it is not a supergrade it is still a fine looking rifle.
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3030 thank for the welcome and the help!
I always suspected from the stock, but the barrel is engraved/stamped "Super grade", could've someone who wanted to make it appear so, stamped it?
Those are the pics the previous owner sent me to sell, I didn't get the scope thank god
A Zeiss will be on it.
The floor plate is either engraved or stamped, Ill take it out tonight and get some better pictures of it.
Thanks again!!
I always suspected from the stock, but the barrel is engraved/stamped "Super grade", could've someone who wanted to make it appear so, stamped it?
Those are the pics the previous owner sent me to sell, I didn't get the scope thank god
A Zeiss will be on it.The floor plate is either engraved or stamped, Ill take it out tonight and get some better pictures of it.
Thanks again!!
Attachments
CRAWLMACHINE, the photo of the floorplate appears to be an original supergrade floorplate. Again this is a nice looking rifle, but has been personalized by someone. The trigger is gold plated which Winchester never produced. The recoil pad aslo doesnt appear to be of Winchester manufacter. This gun might have been a supergrade with a modified standard grade stock. Anyhow keep us imformed as this is how we learn ourselves.
My dad had a pre-64 Model 70 in 300 H&H Magnum, new in the box. He sold it in 1976 when we moved to Arizona. When we moved back to Illinois, I met the man he sold it to...AND, he agreed to sell it back to me.
When I went to his house, he said, "The Weatherby was my main hunting rifle, and I bought your dad's as a back-up." I said, "When he sold it to you it was unfired." He said, "Well, it still is. I never pulled the trigger on it."
It is a beautiful rifle.
When I went to his house, he said, "The Weatherby was my main hunting rifle, and I bought your dad's as a back-up." I said, "When he sold it to you it was unfired." He said, "Well, it still is. I never pulled the trigger on it."
It is a beautiful rifle.
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To follow up, I striped the rifle apart and it has a 52 stamped on the lower part of the barrel.
It doesn't has the SG or similar stamp, which means its just a featherweight, with the "- Super Grade -" engraved by some counterfitter or whatsoever.
What can you tell me about the jeweled bolt? Ive seen bolts only with a hole on the knob,?
Thanks again!!
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