A question about long-range rifles...

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I have a friend who is something of a commando at heart.
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He has been engaging me in a discussion about sniper-type rifles, since he would like to build one just for fun. (He has no actual use for it, nor will he use it in any sort of competition.) Since I am not knowledgeable about anything to do with high-powered rifle shooting at long range, I thought I would throw his basic questions out to you guys for comments, if anyone is inclined.

He is trying to determine what to build - leaning toward a 338 Lapau, which seems a little much to me. I would think he could do some pretty good shooting out to 1000-yards (a magic number, for him) with a good .30/06 or .300 Winchester, and spend a lot less money for ammunition.

That is all I can tell him, which is probably not what he wants to hear. Specifically, he is interested to know what the state-of-the-art happens to be with barrels and bullets. For example, the .33 cal 300-gr Matchking does look impressive in terms of comparing it to, say, a .30 cal 175-gr Matchking. Obviously, we know there is going to be a lot more recoil. What we don't know is what barrels are available, and how they work with that type of bullet. Has the technology developed in producing .30 cal barrels spilled over into the .33s, and if so, is the 300-gr bullet a viable option? We're wondering the same things about the super-heavy .30 cal bullets, such as the 220-gr and 240-gr Matchkings, and barrels suitable for them... ?

Any of you guys toying around with these things care to comment, or actually using them in your assignments? I was flabbergasted to read some PDs are actually buying 338L rifles, since I can't imagine any real use they would have for them, other than something to amuse themselves and take up spare time/money. Any comments or experiences will be appreciated.
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My long range rifle is an 1874 Sharps that can toss a 500 gr. LRNFP out to 1000 yards. It's probably a lot more fun to shoot as well!

To answer a part of your question, why not a .308? It will shoot out to 1000 yards with a match barrel, and the ammo is plentiful.

WG840
 
I'm not even going there with the caliber qeustion, but from what I hear, he couldn't do much better than a surgeon actioned gun or full rifle. Linkie.

.5 MOA guarantee

Or Accuracy International

Linkie 2
 
I gotta admit I am not that knowledgeable on modern day sniper rifles but I can tell you that the Winchester Model 70, firing an 06 or .308, has accounted for more dead bad guys at the hands of a sniper than just about any other firearm.

The MatchKing bullet has been around since the 60's, maybe longer. Nothing new there. I do believe Barnes and Nosler now make some ballistically superior bullets.
 
I have a 300 H&H model 70. I never played with it at those far ranges, but may soon. Guess I need a high power scope and I would be open for business.
 
Magnums burn barrels relatively quickly.

A Savage .308 with a 20-minute scope base would probably shoot better than he does...
 
Originally posted by zercool:
A Savage .308 with a 20-minute scope base would probably shoot better than he does...

+1. My FP10 in 308 shoots way better than me and does it with a pretty wide range of hand loads. Those 175 grain Match Kings are great out past 1,000 yards. That big arcing trajectory gives you time to get back on target and see the impact.
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The Army is always "hiring" and not only gives you the rifle, but pays you to use it. The new standard "sniper" rifle for the Army is a variant of the Knight SR25. Other services use different guns, and there are special rifles for things like EOD.
 
I've been to 2 sniper schools and used the .308 both times. It worked fine. That said, long range shooting in the war on terror has carried the art forward and new, more powerful calibers are being used by some.

Here's how this goes. If you use one of these rifles on behalf of the government you'll be well equipped, modestly paid and then decorated. If you use the rifle on your own it is called murder. If you are shooting for Uncle Sam he buys the gun. If you build one to play with it becomes an expensive toy. I had two of my own and sold them.

The easy way out for your pal may be to just buy a rifle in .50 BMG. Then he'll have a 2000 yard (or more) rifle. If that won't fly I'd suggest sticking with the .308. My last choice would be going exotic.

He could enlist. There is plenty of work to be had and the training is free. Have a look at the SF or Ranger-type Guard or Reserve units if full-time won't work. Uncle sam is great. Ask and you shall receive.
 
The MatchKing bullet has been around since the 60's, maybe longer. Nothing new there. I do believe Barnes and Nosler now make some ballistically superior bullets.

The Matchkings were just mentioned as a point of departure, but are representative of the more modern, heavyweight target bullets available. The heart of the question is more about whether the heavyweights are really a step forward in terms of barrels available to shoot them, or maybe just fluff? I imagine it takes a pretty special barrel to make a 220-gr .30 cal Matchking do what it is supposed to do, and maybe ditto for the 300-gr .33 cal?

The Surgeon Rifles site is interesting, and thanks, but my friend is more inclined to build the gun a piece at a time, since he is in no hurry, and probably can't/won't lay down $5M for an off-the-shelf rifle. I suggested a .308, of course, with barrel life in mind, but, again, it was not what he was interested in doing. He wants to raise the bar a bit beyond what is traditional.

The Army is always "hiring" and not only gives you the rifle, but pays you to use it.

Gator, we're both way too old to be of any interest to the U.S. Army.
 
The Shilen folks or the Douglas folks will tell you that their .33 caliber barrels (or similar)are just as technically advanced as their 30 caliber barrels. Just name your diameter, profile, twist, length and finish and they will build you one. Of course, you've got to put up a deposit. Both these companies make really fine barrels. I've got a 6.5mm 26 inch Douglas barrel in a custom 264 Winchester and several 3 or 4 Shilen barrels. They're nice!

Off the top of my head I can't recall the BC for a 300Gr MatchKing in a 33 caliber. It's got to have the edge over the 30Cal 175gr MatchKing, though.

If money is no object and resale is not important, then tell your friend to get a 33Cal barrel on order now. I know Shilen was running about 6 months from order to delivery about 3 years ago. Don't know about now.

But, as others have recommended, going with a 30Cal is hard to beat and will provide fine long-range performance easily out to 1,000 yards and better with the right bullet. I'd go with a 300WinMag myself, but that's personal preference.
 
surgeon rifles are not of the shelf. they are custom built basically to order but they have certain types they build as their standard guns. cnc machined and totally hand fitted with an accuracy guarantee. one of the best being built today. priced accordingly.
 
I think it depends on what your using it for targets hunting?

I have a Jarrett bean field rifle in 300 Jarrett that will put 3 shots in under a 1/4"

Using a good rest I limit my game shots to 500 yards.

Len
 
A lot of rifles will work at 1000 but not a lot of men can make them do so. Sounds like your friend needs to buy one of the single shots chambered in 50BMG, top it with the most expensive Leupold he can buy, and set it up for display.
 
If He's looking for a long range wildcat, the 30-338 has been a historical favorite of 1000yd shooters. It's the 338 necked down to 30cal with a sharp shoulder.
Personally, I shoot a 308 like the others mentioned and if I want to be nostalgic I shoot my 45/90 Sharps Long Range Express
 
The May/June issue of RifleShooter has a very interesting article on the 6.5x47 Lapua.
This is a relatively new cartridge that is slightly flatter shooting than a 300 Win Mag despite being much smaller and less "dramatic".

Quoting the article: " Like the .260 Remington the 6.5X47 Lapua provides long-range ballistics usually limited to the big magnums in a short-action package with low recoil. Because it shares the .308's head diameter and rough case dimension, converting .308 rifle to Lapua 6.5 is just a matter of replacing the barrel."
Now this may be a bit tame for a want to be commando, but the cartridge has a lot to offer in a package that isn't terribly expensive to shoot.
 
Yes, you can punch holes in paper at long range with a .308, but if you want to kill things and break stuff at long ranges, delivered energy counts, and this is where the likes of the .338 Lapua and .50BMG begin to shine...
 
First and foremost is the range and what you want to do at that range? 1000 yards is awfully hard to find to shoot at and there aren't all that many ranges, even nationally that are set up for 1000 yards. I think there is ONE in Idaho, up at Camp Farragut.

So then your talking either private or public ground. I'm lucky, I live in the middle of nowhere in the middle of millions of acres of Federal land with to my knowledge no shooting restrictions. So I have a 1000 meter gong and a 1000 meter target stand straight out from the front porch.

That is not a luxuray many people have.

As mentioned if all you want to do is shoot 1000 yards and make a hole in a piece of paper then there are lots of things that shoot Bench Rest of VLD bullets into pretty small groups way out there. The 6.5-284 will give you the same ballistically as most of the big 30 caliber mags, without all the recoil and will cost less to shoot.

On the other hand if you actually anticipate killing something at 1000 yards your going to want something with some remaining energy. That's where the .338 Lapau and the like come into play.

I have a buddy that shoots the .338 Lapau a bunch and even he says it kicks and that is with a muzzle brake that looks like it was borrowed from a Panzer tank. I was going to punch one of my .338s Win Mags but he talked me out of it.

I've killed the occassional coyote out past 800 yards with various 7mm STWs, 30-338, 300 Win Mags and 338s and even one mule deer at a measured 1243 yards with a 7mm STW. That was more of a stunt than anything else and it was also someplace I knew the yardage very very well and I still hit him back further than I wanted to because I couldn't dope the wind that was blowing out there across the line of sight.

Just depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend on a rilfe and a scope and when you start talking scopes that work out that far there aren't a bunch of them and they aren't cheap.

My SERIOUS Long Range coyote rifle cost, a lot of money and the Leupold was over $1K. I have a couple with Burris 8x32 Black Diamonds on them and we are still talking $800+ per scope.

On the other hand if he's just building one rifle to shoot a long ways he can spend a lot and still have less in it than those of us that own a bunch of rifles. Just a thought.

RWT
 
I've shot both the 308 & 223 at one thousand yards. Yes you can get there but you'd best be a master wind reader.
 
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