Accuracy is coming: Apex M&P Barrels

[jdubpro]

Got my Apex Grade Barrel from Brownells today. I fit it to my 5" M&P Pro in about 20 minutes. I had to take a little off the sides and back of the hood, and that was it. This thing is rock solid. The stock barrel wiggled front-to-back, side-to-side, and up and down when I moved the slide forward slightly. No movement at all on the Apex barrel.

 

[Magload]

I need one of those threaded for my Carver comp. Don

 

[Heyman]

Got my Apex Grade Barrel from Brownells today. I fit it to my 5" M&P Pro in about 20 minutes. I had to take a little off the sides and back of the hood, and that was it. This thing is rock solid. The stock barrel wiggled front-to-back, side-to-side, and up and down when I moved the slide forward slightly. No movement at all on the Apex barrel.

View attachment 223399

Did you get the gunsmith or semi drop in barrel?

 

[Jeffmc001]

Hi guys! New to this forum and m&p. Lots of things to learn and catch up for a newbie like me. Since the the topic here is accuracy and the fitting of Apex grade barrel, I have a question for Randy all the experienced shooters here. For sure the barrel to slide fitting is very important in accuracy, how about the slide to frame fitting for repeatability? My 9 FS slide has too much play/wiggle when the slide is closed. Do you guys think if the slide guide fits exactly to the slide will improve the accuracy? Thanks a lot. Jeff

 

[agksimon]

Hi guys! New to this forum and m&p. Lots of things to learn and catch up for a newbie like me. Since the the topic here is accuracy and the fitting of Apex grade barrel, I have a question for Randy all the experienced shooters here. For sure the barrel to slide fitting is very important in accuracy, how about the slide to frame fitting for repeatability? My 9 FS slide has too much play/wiggle when the slide is closed. Do you guys think if the slide guide fits exactly to the slide will improve the accuracy? Thanks a lot. Jeff

Slide to frame fit is probably the most critical of all the fitting. As per Randy, I have my gunsmith fit barrel fit so that if I close the slide slowly, it will lack about an eighth inch of being fully closed. If I let it go by slingshoting it, it will go fully into battery. This guarantees a tight lockup. Don't forget to apply a small amount of grease to the rails and the barrel lug, where it contacts the frame.

 

[Jeffmc001]

Slide to frame fit is probably the most critical of all the fitting. As per Randy, I have my gunsmith fit barrel fit so that if I close the slide slowly, it will lack about an eighth inch of being fully closed. If I let it go by slingshoting it, it will go fully into battery. This guarantees a tight lockup. Don't forget to apply a small amount of grease to the rails and the barrel lug, where it contacts the frame.

Thats what I thought with a loose slide to frame fit the shots will be all over the paper. And being a striker fired handgun, inconsistent trigger pull is possible. I've been using grease on the rail since day one to lessen the wear on the tiny slide guide. I think its time to order locking and sear block and make that slide guide more beefier. Thanks!

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Slide to frame fit is the least important. The sights are mounted on the slide, and you reacquire the target for each shot, so horizontal and vertical slide play is much less important as barrel lockup is.

 

[jdubpro]

Did you get the gunsmith or semi drop in barrel?

semi drop-in

 

[agksimon]

Slide to frame fit is the least important. The sights are mounted on the slide, and you reacquire the target for each shot, so horizontal and vertical slide play is much less important as barrel lockup is.

I used the wrong terminology in my last posting. I meant to say that the barrel has to lock up tightly against the slide and the frame, so it's not loose.

 

[JCase]

Hi,

The Gunsmith Fit barrel requires fitting in the exact same areas. The critical difference is that the barrel's bottom lug has much more material left on the horizontal surface so that guns with extreme slide to frame vertical tolerances can benefit.

This surface is best adjusted using a mill due to the amount of material and surface area that you have to work with. It will make the fitting time significantly shorter than trying to fit it with a file.

Randy,
In your experience have you seen where the frame vertical tolerances are so far out that the drop in semi fit barrel does not have enough "meat" that someone is forced to go with the gunsmith fit version?

If so is there a test that can be done to the gun and or drop in barrel before fitting, so it can be returned for the gunsmith version?

 

[shadowrider]

I had the same question as JCase. I'll just wait for Randy to answer. Great info in this thread, it's been a real eye opener.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I'm sure Apex will make some kind of accuracy claim. On their website they are claiming sub 2" groups at 50 yards and sub 1" groups at 25 yards. This is indeed better than what S&W says their barrels will do.

I agree. Impressive claim. I wonder how many buyers will understand that to mean firing with match ammo in a barrel test fixture to remove the human and bad ammo element from the equation.

Besides, once S&W switched to the 1:10 twist on the 9mm M&P rifling, the accuracy has been match grade from the factory.

As soon as everyone understands that shooting better cannot be achieved by anything except practice, and that buying after market fittings for a perfectly good pistol is not the answer, our wallets will all be in better shape.

That said, I have never seen anyone admit that the money they just spent on this or that after market gunsmithing or fitting did anything other than make them a crack marksman. LOL

So, I suggest everyone buy a pistol of good quality and several cases of good ammo, and practice, practice, practice. Your gun gets broken in, and you become a better shot.

 

[Magload]

One inch at 25 yards is better then most custom built 1911 are advertising. If they offered a 9mm 5" threaded with a Carver cut I would order one today. I was told that Storm Lake was bought by who I forgot and their barrels are now not as good.

 

[Rastoff]

As soon as everyone understands that shooting better cannot be achieved by anything except practice, and that buying after market fittings for a perfectly good pistol is not the answer, our wallets will all be in better shape.

You and I both know this will never happen. The entire gun industry in the US is built on the mythology that better equipment will make you an amazing shot.

OK, it's not all mythology. There is some truth to the idea that better equipment will make you a better shot. However, without the dedication to practice and training, that improvement will never be realized.

 

[agksimon]

I agree. Impressive claim. I wonder how many buyers will understand that to mean firing with match ammo in a barrel test fixture to remove the human and bad ammo element from the equation.

Besides, once S&W switched to the 1:10 twist on the 9mm M&P rifling, the accuracy has been match grade from the factory.

As soon as everyone understands that shooting better cannot be achieved by anything except practice, and that buying after market fittings for a perfectly good pistol is not the answer, our wallets will all be in better shape.

That said, I have never seen anyone admit that the money they just spent on this or that after market gunsmithing or fitting did anything other than make them a crack marksman. LOL

So, I suggest everyone buy a pistol of good quality and several cases of good ammo, and practice, practice, practice. Your gun gets broken in, and you become a better shot.

I just got back from the range with my Apex'd barrel 5" Pro. I was benchrest shooting 25 yards, toward a bank, covered in snow and the reflection didn't do me any good, but I still shot 2", five shot groups with it. That's a far cry from the 3.5" to 6" groups I was getting with the factory barrel, which is a 1 in 10 twist, build date, July 2015.

I've shot a few IDPA matches with the Apex barrel so far and whereas I was usually 30-35 points down, I'm now averaging 20-28. A lot of shots that used to be just outside the perforation, are now inside of it.
The barrel is worth every penny to me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Magload]

You and I both know this will never happen. The entire gun industry in the US is built on the mythology that better equipment will make you an amazing shot.

OK, it's not all mythology. There is some truth to the idea that better equipment will make you a better shot. However, without the dedication to practice and training, that improvement will never be realized.

Good equipment will not make you a better shoot but will make your groups tighter. It may also give you pride in what you are shooting and want to shoot it more. You can practice till your finger falls off but you are not going to shoot 2" 25 yard groups with a gun that will only shoot 3 1/2" off a rest. Don

 

[Rastoff]

Good equipment will not make you a better shoot but will make your groups tighter.

I guess I'm not following your logic here. Isn't a tighter group better?

Obviously you can't consistently shoot a 1" group with a gun that's only capable of a 3" group.

 

[Prasko]

Randy, Have a quick question if you could.

You mentioned earlier in this thread that the M&P barrel accuracy is hindered by the fact that the barrel unlocks early. By moving the slide even in the slightest, the barrel moves. This is very obviously caused by the loose fit of the hood and lug.

I and several others on various boards have noticed that, due to design, flaw, or what have you, that when you pull the trigger the slide has a tendency to move backwards. This is obviously the striker spring being pulled backwards against the recoil spring. This also doesn't effect every pistol. My compact nor my shield exhibits this problem.

My question is, if pulling the trigger makes the slide retract, by even a 1/16th of an inch, wouldn't this also have a detrimental effect on accuracy? Wouldn't a low power striker spring and a higher lb recoil spring fix this?

 

[Dlister70]

As soon as everyone understands that shooting better cannot be achieved by anything except practice, and that buying after market fittings for a perfectly good pistol is not the answer, our wallets will all be in better shape.

If you want to shoot better, you have to practice more. I don't think you'd get any argument there. It's the "perfectly good pistol" portion of your statement that comes into play. The M&P series is a perfectly good self defense pistol, and easily will put shots into a bad guys chest at self defense distances when the need arises. That's what it was built for, and it does its job.

However, most M&P 9mm guns will not accurately put shots into the center of a bullseye at 25 yards. I don't think that's what Smith and Wesson was trying to accomplish when they made them, so I don't think I would stop calling it a "perfectly good pistol", but it could stand to be improved if that's what you are trying to do with it.

If you are using your M&P as a CCW, I don't think it needs an Apex barrel. But for scored paper target shooting, it can make a difference. If you routinely shoot outside the rings entirely, you need practice and not a new barrel. But if you find yourself skirting the lines from between a 10 to a bullseye or a 9 to a 10, then the Apex barrel will likely increase your average.

I need more practice before I can reliably hit a 2" bullseye offhand at 25 yards, but my scores have definitely gone up 10 points or so since I had the Apex barrel installed. I'm getting fewer 8s and 9s and getting closer to that elusive X ring!

 

[Magload]

I guess I'm not following your logic here. Isn't a tighter group better?

Obviously you can't consistently shoot a 1" group with a gun that's only capable of a 3" group.

That is because the tighter group is because of your equipment not your shooting skills. You can tighten a group by improving your shooting skills but once those skills are as good as you can get them for you then only equipment will tighten your groups more.

I shot tournament Field Archery for many years in the early 70s when the first compound bow made by Allen came out. I shot 3 hours a day everyday practicing and a tournament nearly every weekend. I shot in Unlimited Freestyle and the skills and competition got to the point the only way to add a couple points to your score was buying better gear. I was shooting 2 points from perfect in tournaments then the Navy sent me to a aircraft carrier for 3 years. I suspect you see the same thing in your pistol matches. But a good archer will out shoot a hand gunner any day. Don