Accurate Arms #9 with .44 Special
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Steve C
Member
One of the best clues in determine if a powder will be any good with a particular cartridge is to check published load data, esp from the powder manufacturer as they have the most vested interest in getting customers to use their product.
There is NO data showing a .44 spl load using AA#9 in the current accurate publications of load data for their powders.
Slow pistol powders are for high pressure large capacity magnum pistol cartridges and small case rifle cartridges. AA( is too slow to be useful in the low pressure .44 spl cartridge. The slowest burn rate powders you find are AA7, Blue Dot and similar. With exceptionally heavy bullets you find a couple loads using 2400. If you can find AA9 data for the .44 spl from a reliable source then go ahead and try it. Let us know how it works though it isn't the best powder for low pressure.
For the .44 spl use fast powder like AA2, Bullseye, Red Dot, W231/HP38 for target loads. For defensive and game loads use powders no slower than Blue Dot, AA7. Medium burn rate powders are better suited like Unique, AA5, Universal, etc.
There is NO data showing a .44 spl load using AA#9 in the current accurate publications of load data for their powders.
Slow pistol powders are for high pressure large capacity magnum pistol cartridges and small case rifle cartridges. AA( is too slow to be useful in the low pressure .44 spl cartridge. The slowest burn rate powders you find are AA7, Blue Dot and similar. With exceptionally heavy bullets you find a couple loads using 2400. If you can find AA9 data for the .44 spl from a reliable source then go ahead and try it. Let us know how it works though it isn't the best powder for low pressure.
For the .44 spl use fast powder like AA2, Bullseye, Red Dot, W231/HP38 for target loads. For defensive and game loads use powders no slower than Blue Dot, AA7. Medium burn rate powders are better suited like Unique, AA5, Universal, etc.
Alk8944
US Veteran
There are many handgun/shotgun powders that are better for low pressure cartridges like .38 Spl and .44 Spl, than AA9. Almost any of them as a matter of fact. Pick just about any propellent in the Unique/HS-5/Universal/WSF burning range or faster and they will all work well and efficiently. If you use a slow powder like AA9 you will need much more to get the same performance as any listed above will give.
In other words, SteveC is right on with his answer and rational.
In other words, SteveC is right on with his answer and rational.
riverrat38
US Veteran
Remember that Keith was developing the 44 Mag so he would have needed to use a slow powder. Not the case in normal 44 Spec loads.
rat
I've read in several places that Keith's 17.5/2400 in solid head brass measured 24,000. Definitely over SAAMI but well underneath magnum pressure.
I was hoping AA9 would work in its place. In my .41 and .44 magnums it burns cleaner and has less flash than 2400. I can't stand all the unburned powder granules when shooting 2400.
ETA: For a standard pressrue load I would probably use SR4756. I like it a lot better than Unique.
I was hoping AA9 would work in its place. In my .41 and .44 magnums it burns cleaner and has less flash than 2400. I can't stand all the unburned powder granules when shooting 2400.
ETA: For a standard pressrue load I would probably use SR4756. I like it a lot better than Unique.
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If I were using a Accurate Arms powder in the .44 Special it would be AA#5, not AA#9. Like said above, AA#9 is better suited for the .44 Magnum.
I was loading 10.7gr of AA#7 with Nosler 200gr Jhp with good results in a S&W 696. The next batch of #7 with the same load left partially burned that tied up the action.
I would think a 624 could take more pressure than a 696, and if AA#9 would work it would take a over pressure loading.
I've tried HS-6 and Blue Dot but my best results for my 696 have been with W-231, AA#5 and Unique.
I would think a 624 could take more pressure than a 696, and if AA#9 would work it would take a over pressure loading.
I've tried HS-6 and Blue Dot but my best results for my 696 have been with W-231, AA#5 and Unique.
VAdoublegunner
Member
In Handloader #260, Brian Pearce mentions a load using AA#9 and a 255gr Lyman 429244 for just a little over 1200fps and just under a 1" group. Max charge was 16.5gr.
This was in one of the new mid-frame sized Ruger Blackhawks chambered in 44SP and was rated at 25Kpsi. I really like my pair of those 44SP Blackhawks!
A slightly lesser charge was discussed in Handloader #236 as a Category 3 level load at 25Kpsi, deemed suitable in modern N-frame 44 Specials like the 624. The question is whether you want to use them and need that power. The guns are capable of handling it. It is at the very upper end of the power and performance envelope for the 44 Special. AA#7 is a better powder for mid-level loads, and AA#5 for standard level pressures.
{Please note that this was using a gas checked cast bullet and may not be suitable for a jacketed bullet where pressures could be higher. I recommend obtaining and reading those Handloader issues if you are interested in using such loads.}
This was in one of the new mid-frame sized Ruger Blackhawks chambered in 44SP and was rated at 25Kpsi. I really like my pair of those 44SP Blackhawks!
A slightly lesser charge was discussed in Handloader #236 as a Category 3 level load at 25Kpsi, deemed suitable in modern N-frame 44 Specials like the 624. The question is whether you want to use them and need that power. The guns are capable of handling it. It is at the very upper end of the power and performance envelope for the 44 Special. AA#7 is a better powder for mid-level loads, and AA#5 for standard level pressures.
{Please note that this was using a gas checked cast bullet and may not be suitable for a jacketed bullet where pressures could be higher. I recommend obtaining and reading those Handloader issues if you are interested in using such loads.}
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This is from Hornady,
pistol: Charter Arms
barrel: 3"
case: Winchester
primer: WLP
case trim length: 1.150"
Bullet: #44200 240gr HP/XTP and #4425 240gr JTC-SIL Diameter .430"
COL: 1.500"
Max Load: 11.7gr AA#9
Bullet: #4430 240gr LSWC and #4431 240gr LSWC/HP Dia. .430"
COL: 1.500"
Max Load: 12.4gr AA#9
Hornady's .44 jacketed are .430" which may help, I have not tried these loads.
pistol: Charter Arms
barrel: 3"
case: Winchester
primer: WLP
case trim length: 1.150"
Bullet: #44200 240gr HP/XTP and #4425 240gr JTC-SIL Diameter .430"
COL: 1.500"
Max Load: 11.7gr AA#9
Bullet: #4430 240gr LSWC and #4431 240gr LSWC/HP Dia. .430"
COL: 1.500"
Max Load: 12.4gr AA#9
Hornady's .44 jacketed are .430" which may help, I have not tried these loads.
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baxtersmith
Member
I use AAC-7 for my .44 Special loads. Its a fairly hot load (I don't have the numbers in front of me because I'm writing from work).
This is kind of what I was looking for. Guess I need to get those copies of Handloader.
This is for having in the gun walking out to the deer blind. I'd probably fire two cylinder fulls of it to see where it shoots and to get a feel for it.
Thanks!
"I'd probably fire two cylinder fulls of it to see where it shoots and to get a feel for it."
The loads that are in my gun are the loads I practice with, that way I'm less likely to forget where they shoot.
A hit is better than two misses.
The loads that are in my gun are the loads I practice with, that way I'm less likely to forget where they shoot.
A hit is better than two misses.
True...true.
I'm going to have a test session at the range one day soon and try about 4 different loads. I'll update the thread with the accuracy results.
Look here and click on the link in post #32 http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/71827-44-associates-44-special-data.html
There is lots of useful data contained within these articles. Take a look at the articles written by Brian Pearce there is data using AA#9. He also explains the three pressure categories with the M24 being able to accept level III loads (25,000PSI)
There is lots of useful data contained within these articles. Take a look at the articles written by Brian Pearce there is data using AA#9. He also explains the three pressure categories with the M24 being able to accept level III loads (25,000PSI)
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I've shot a good many loads of 12 grs. of #9 behind a 250 gr cast plain base bullet. I liked the way they shot and they didn't lead up or cause sticky extraction. All went through my N-frame spl's. and Ruger flattop .44 spl's.. Can't remember where i got this recipe........use at your own risk.
Az Rick
Member
For .44spl. I think no.9 is too slow. Number 7 is a good powder to experiment with. I got my .41mag recipe from Brian Pearces' writings, It's been too long ago to remember, sold the gun years ago. I load a .44mag round for a Marlin lever that is mild in a rifle and accurate. It's 15gr. under a 265gr. bullet, rifle only!!! That's my disclaimer. I haven't tried 7 in a special, I like Unique.
Best, Rick
Best, Rick
I agree with above posts that AA9 is not a suitable powder for .44 Spl. although great in my .44 Mag.
My most accurate .44 Spl loads are with AA5...8.5gr. and 215gr lead SWC.
Terry
My most accurate .44 Spl loads are with AA5...8.5gr. and 215gr lead SWC.
Terry
AA loadbook #1. 44 special 250 swc 10.4 gr start load 11.4. gr max.
I loaded 11 gr under a Ly429421 and tied the cylinder up with unburned powder at shot # 5. I was using a standard primer which I still use with #9 loads. I do not recall the crimp but it should have been heavy enough to allow a complete burn. Accurate Arms says to not use previous data with it's current powders. This load is for information regarding this question only.
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VAdoublegunner
Member
That certainly looks way too light for using AA#9 to me, especially based on my experience with Pearce's loads. I don't doubt that failure to achieve proper burn characteristics and pressure was the likely result. Even with a magnum primer and crusher crimp it may have issues. This must have been holding to a 14Kpsi level load. I don't know of any AA#9 loads at that pressure level; most load data shows it more suited to pressures above that. E.g., it is a great heavy bullet 10mm and Blackhawk level 45 Colt powder!
edit/ Just checked the new Accurate manual and they do list loads in 45 Colt as low as 17.5Kpsi. Interesting. I usually like it to be above 20K at least before I consider using it.
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m657
Member
What do you folks find with 44 special 200g RFN for such as ICORE & steel challenge in a 24-1 Thunder Ranch with the Hodgdon recipe using Clays 3.5-4.5???
DGNY
Member
If you do achieve some decent and safe loads with AA9 in your .44 Special, please let us know. The 624 is a good platform, tho barrel length is, I suppose, better at 4" and up.
Safe loading to you,
Dyson
Safe loading to you,
Dyson
The 11.5gr loads keep things under 12,500 psi, which is SAAMI max. The 16.5gr load listed in Handloader doubles the pressures, but they are not excessive for a modern 44 Spl. I wouldn't bother with any slow powder at the low pressure limits of SAAMI, but especially not a ball powder... Now at the 25k level, it is interesting... Just don't use it in old guns.
For a light load that's safe in any 44 Spl, and low recoil, I use 5.0grs W231 with a 210gr RNFP. Clays should work too, though I have no direct experience.
UNIQUE_UNIQUE & UNIQUE!
Here's a link to an article that's worth reading:
A Special 44
I can't comment on AA9. However, I've used 5.0 grs Bullseye, 7.5 grs Unique and 15 grs of 2400 consistently in my N frame Smiths and Colt Single Action revolvers. This was behind 240/250 gr cast and 240 gr jacketed bullets.
With a 3" barrel you might want to stick to the first 2 lighter loads. Further, the Unique and 2400 loads are hotter than recommend in the Speer reloading manuals.
From what I've read, this is to protect older, more fragile revolvers. I would also be hesitant to use the hotter loads in small frame, lightweight revolvers.
A Special 44
I can't comment on AA9. However, I've used 5.0 grs Bullseye, 7.5 grs Unique and 15 grs of 2400 consistently in my N frame Smiths and Colt Single Action revolvers. This was behind 240/250 gr cast and 240 gr jacketed bullets.
With a 3" barrel you might want to stick to the first 2 lighter loads. Further, the Unique and 2400 loads are hotter than recommend in the Speer reloading manuals.
From what I've read, this is to protect older, more fragile revolvers. I would also be hesitant to use the hotter loads in small frame, lightweight revolvers.
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