Adapting 27-3 cylinder to 27-2 frame

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Pantera Mike

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All,

I am trying to adapt a later Model 27 cylinder (where the case head is not enveloped) to a 27-2 whose existing cylinder envelops the rim of the case (See my 357/44 Bain and Davis thread for pics). I suspect I need to buy a new yoke/crane to make this an easily reversed modification.

Since my later cylinder doesn’t work properly with my 27-2 yoke, it seems to reason that if I got a 27-3/4/5 yoke, it would work with my later-style cylinder. My question is simple—will a later yoke drop into an earlier frame? I realize some fitting might be required. A 27-2 yoke tube is too long and would have to be shortened to work with the later cylinder. If a 27-3/4/5 yoke would fit directly into my 27-2 frame, I suspect it would be much closer to a drop-in modification.

Thoughts and words of wisdom appreciated!
 
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Yes. I have a Model 27-2, and a 357/44 Bain & Davis cylinder that is apparently a Model 27-3/4/5. I’m not about to try to find and buy a 27-2 cylinder and then have it rechambered.

Not when I can just buy a different yoke for the one I have. IF that will work?
 
I would definitely buy another yoke, old style of course, and fit it to your new cylinder, keeping your existing parts together. Only difference in cylinders is the non recessed back of the cylinder, other than nominal manufacturing tolerances.
 
Mike have you found the 357 B&D dies yet? I was contemplating a similar project recently, except on a Ruger, until I found out what the dies cost. I skimmed your posts and didn’t see that you had secured them. That’s what shut me down. I’m following this with interest. Don’t hurt your 27-2, they are superior to 27-3s in my experience.
 
Getting a 27-2 yoke will not guarantee that your 27-3 cylinder will fit it and the frame. Your cylinder might well fit another 27-2 yoke perfectly or your 27-2 cylinder might fit a 27-3 yoke. The revision of the gun usually has little to do with the fit of the cylinder to the yoke. Except of course when S&W tried the gas ring on the yoke deal and that is not the case here. Your problem stems from the fact that the depth of the bore in center hole of cylinders and the length of yoke tubes varies slightly from gun to gun and each cylinder must be fitted to each yoke. From previous post your problem is your cylinder hole is slightly shallower than your yoke tube length. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you do not. You could take 2 27-2s that are 1 serial number apart and find that cylinders would not exchange without fitting. Even once they fit on the yoke and close up properly with no end shake there is no guarantee that they will time right and ratchet teeth may need a little adjustment. Interestingly I find that that this doesn't happen nearly as much as the cylinder fitting the yoke.

It is handy to have 2 yokes on convertibles as all you have to do is remove the side plate screw and then the yoke and slide in the other yoke. But also be aware that another yoke might not fit your frame perfectly (they were finished, polished and blued as a set at factory). I have found that sometimes a yoke need a a bit of adjustment to fit another frame. Might rub the top of the frame opening a bit or be a bit proud or low in front.. Also the screw that holds the yoke in is a fit screw and sometimes it may be to adjusted to fit a yoke.

The only thing your non recessed cylinder will do that it should not, once fitted, is slop back a bit when open and ejecting. This is because the small lug on your frame below and behind the frame opening is set for a recessed cylinder. You may have to make sure your cylinder slides back forward so ratchet doesn't hit recoil shield and it closes smoothly. Simply rolling or holding the gun muzzle down while closing the cylinder should do this.

I quite a few conversions, mostly 45 colts via fitting cylinders and sometimes barrels. It is often a case of fitting each individual piece a little bit here and there. Until recently each gun at the factory required had fitting and that often shows up when you mix parts.
 
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MajorDude said:
Mike have you found the 357 B&D dies yet? I was contemplating a similar project recently, except on a Ruger, until I found out what the dies cost. I skimmed your posts and didn’t see that you had secured them. That’s what shut me down. I’m following this with interest. Don’t hurt your 27-2, they are superior to 27-3s in my experience.
Click to expand...

I missed out on a set of RCBS dies on eBay a couple of months ago, and eventually got a set of Redding dies from Midway at a cost over $200. There was another RCBS die set on eBay that ended yesterday. I was the underbidder at $100; they sold for $102.50 although if I had bid $200 instead of only $100, they might have sold to the other guy for $202.50?

I would still like an RCBS die set, just because.....
 
Steelsaver,

Thanks for the excellent advice. It seems like perhaps the way forward would be to have the center hole in the cylinder made ever so slightly deeper. Then both cylinders would fit on the same yoke?

What puzzles me is the fact that Numrich offers ‘early’ and ‘late’ yokes, for -1/2 and -3/4/5 respectively, and they are different (apparently). What isn’t clear is what that difference is. Assuming the frames are unchanged, and all that differs between a -2 and -3 is the cylinder (and yoke), then a -3 yoke might be the way to go. It might even provide the opportunity for a drop-in fit with no gunsmithing required (or is that just dreaming?).

Decisions, decisions.....
 
I shorten yoke tube to get new cylinder to fit if it is tight and then install shims in old cylinder if I want it to still fit. You must trim end of tube square using a jig. The shims are held in place in old cylinder because they are installed by removing extractor rod and springs. It is just like adjusting end shake only it is shake you created via trimming tube. Sometimes the new cylinder is loose and it is the one that requires shims.

Another yoke may or may not work. You might get lucky. But they all have the small variations in tube length I mentioned.

THEY ARE FITTED PARTS. The side plate screw for yoke retention is a fitted part. The yoke is also a fitted part to the frame. Mixed parts do not always get a match.

I highly recommend you read the shop manual I recommended before you start or hire a smith.
 
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Okay, thanks once again. I will likely turn the project over to my gunsmith.

I am reluctant to modify the existing parts in the gun and would prefer to hand him the gun, and a yoke and cylinder and have him do the necessary fitting. So, my last questions (I promise) are, what are the differences between the -2 and -3 yokes, and should I buy a -2 yoke to increase confidence it will fit the frame, but have to be shortened, or should I buy a -3 yoke? They both cost the same so I would prefer to buy whichever would be more appropriate for the task at hand? And should I buy a new screw to go with the new yoke?

Thanks again!
 
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As it turns out, I’m a bit stupid. The Numrich website has different listings for yokes, but there is only one part number. Clicking on either listing brings you to the same part. So the yokes are all the same—there is no ‘early’ or ‘late’ yoke as I was originally led to believe.

I ordered a yoke and a new screw. I will play with it next week but if it doesn’t all fall together effortlessly (and now I doubt that it will) I will bring the lot to the gunsmith and have him sort it for me

Once again, thanks for your help!
 
I did , or rather had done, a similar job.
29-2 with a bad cylinder.
Sent it to S&W service.
They fitted a -3 cylinder as there were no more -2s on the shelf.
As the 27 and 29 share similar frames, this should be done on yours.
 
TAROMAN said:
I did , or rather had done, a similar job.
29-2 with a bad cylinder.
Sent it to S&W service.
They fitted a -3 cylinder as there were no more -2s on the shelf.
As the 27 and 29 share similar frames, this should be done on yours.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Photo didn’t come through though?
 
steelslaver said:
Another yoke may or may not work. You might get lucky. But they all have the small variations in tube length I mentioned.

THEY ARE FITTED PARTS. The side plate screw for yoke retention is a fitted part. The yoke is also a fitted part to the frame. Mixed parts do not always get a match.
Click to expand...

Boy, they sure don’t! I got a new yoke (whose bluing wasn’t nearly as nice as the rest of the gun) and found it didn’t fit at all. It wouldn’t even close. So it will take some work to adapt it.

I dropped the gun, along with the new yoke, cylinder and screw off at the gunsmith today. His instructions were to not disturb anything on the existing gun and instead confine his modifications to the new parts only.

I should get it back in 2-3 weeks.

Thanks for the help!
 
Picked up the gun from the gunsmith last week, and after some ammo difficulties I later attributed to somewhat ill-sized Redding dies, RCBS dies got me where I need to be.

First test fire will be Friday. Stay tuned....
 
I’m happy to report complete and total success. New yoke mated to 357/44 B&D cylinder required some fitting, but the gun functions perfectly. I still have the original yoke, 357 cylinder and yoke screw, but I seriously doubt I will ever install it again.

357/44 B&D is a lot of fun!

Thanks to all who offered help and advice!
 
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