Adding another cylinder to the M544

[Doc Watson]

Due to the high cost of 44-40 and the scarcity of it, i was wondering if a spare cylinder, in maybe 44 special or 44 mag could be fitted, to give me a dual caliber revolver. i was thinking have a stainless cylinder, in order to make them easier to tell which is which. Thoughts?

 

[Nightowl]

I really, really like my 544. I reload so ammo is not an issue. I have been curious about fitting a .44 Special also, so I took micrometer in hand. The 544 cylinder measured 1.664 in length and my 624 cylinder measured 1.576 making it .088 shorter. A 28-3 cylinder measured 1.582, also shorter.

Installing a .44 Special cylinder would require setting the barrel back and recutting the forcing cone, then the 544 cylinder would be too long and would have to be faced off to fit. That is all assuming both cylinders would fit the yoke dimensions and hand.

Someone here has already fitted a .44 Special cylinder to a 544, but I'm not sure he made into a dual cylinder gun. I'm just going to leave mine alone.

 

[austintexas]

good excuse

Wanting to shoot 44 special is a good excuse to buy a 24-3. I have 1, 44-40 and 8, 44 specials.
SWCA 892

PS, I really like the 5" barrel on the 44-40

 

[tennexplorer]

You can use a Model 29, preferably a 29-3 or 29-4, cylinder or a 629-1 or 629-2 cylinder. It has to be shortened slightly. If you use a used cylinder that is in very good shape, you shouldn’t have any problems with timing. I know a few people who have them.

 

[Muley Gil]

As tennexplorer noted, a M29-3 cylinder can be fitted to a M544. I have one for my M544.

Dr Jinks told me that the heat treatment was different on non-Magnum revolvers. I believe that soft .44 magnum loads would be safe.

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

Isn't 44-40 bullet diameter .427 vs. .429 for .44 Special / Magnum?

 

[CH4]

Isn't 44-40 bullet diameter .427 vs. .429 for .44 Special / Magnum?

I believe S&W used 24/29 (.429) barrels and cylinders to make the 544.

 

[Nightowl]

I believe S&W used 24/29 (.429) barrels and cylinders to make the 544.

I heard they used 29 barrels on the 544. I don't know for sure, but I have used a pin gauge down the the 544 barrel and a couple of 29 barrels. The same size pin gauge just fits in both barrels. That indicated to me the barrels are the same bore diameter. I shoot Missouri Bullet 44-40 .428 200 grain bullets, through a cylinder with .427 throats, down what I believe is a .429 barrel. It still shoots pretty darn good!

 

[tennexplorer]

As tennexplorer noted, a M29-3 cylinder can be fitted to a M544. I have one for my M544.

Dr Jinks told me that the heat treatment was different on non-Magnum revolvers. I believe that soft .44 magnum loads would be safe.

You know, we need a 29-3, a converted 544, about 5000 rounds of hot .44 Magnum, and an on call orthopedic surgeon and find out if that is true. Destructive testing.

 

[Muley Gil]

You know, we need a 29-3, a converted 544, about 5000 rounds of hot .44 Magnum, and an on call orthopedic surgeon and find out if that is true. Destructive testing.

Next time you come visit, take the M544 home with you, load up the 5K rounds of hot .44 Maggies and blaze away.

I'm sure there are some GOOD doctors there in West Tennessee!

 

[steelslaver]

Evidently the 544 runs a long cylinder. You could make a 44 special only cylinder out of a 41 mag cylinder. There would be a .13 length of throat at .434 right in front of the case before the bullet hit the .429 throat. A non issue as the front of the bullet body would be in the .410 throat before the base of bullet left the case. Way less of an issue than firing 44 specials in a 44 mag cylinder. But, as it is the cylinder that lets go, not the frame, I wouldn't be afraid of running a 44 mag cylinder in the frame. Look they make 44 mags using scandium alloy, the very best scandium alloy does not have as much tensile or yield strength as 4140 from the mill. If S&W is selling alloy magnums why worry about a magnum cylinder in an 4140 frame???? 5000 rounds isn't going to wreck it.

Why would a 544 with a 44 mag cylinder have super bad recoil. You guys obviously have not fired many 4" model 29s or any of the scandium alloy guns.

My wrists, elbows and shoulders have been beat to death with 1 and 1 1/2" impact guns and heavy recoiling revolvers don't aggravate them.

My fingers and thumbs will sometimes cramp up, but it is always while using them on stuff like screw drivers and pliers, never while shooting. My hands have never bothered me shooting or after shooting. My snub 325 stung my palms with wood stocks enough that it was painful too my palms.

But, then I wear size XXL gloves. If I get a pair of XLs and soak them in water I can force my hand in them, then wear them until they are dry and they might stay large enough.

 

[SuperMan]

As tennexplorer noted, a M29-3 cylinder can be fitted to a M544. I have one for my M544.

Dr Jinks told me that the heat treatment was different on non-Magnum revolvers. I believe that soft .44 magnum loads would be safe.

I have heard the same thing...but I have a hard time understanding why S&W would heat treat one N-Frame different from another N-Frame...

When those guns were made every other N-Frame was a Magnum or .45 Colt. Did they also not heat treat the .45 Colt frame to the same degree as the frames to be used for the Magnums...never heard of that.

Just doesn't make economic or liability sense...

Bob

 

[steelslaver]

I have heard the same thing...but I have a hard time understanding why S&W would heat treat one N-Frame different from another N-Frame...

When those guns were made every other N-Frame was a Magnum or .45 Colt. Did they also not heat treat the .45 Colt frame to the same degree as the frames to be used for the Magnums...never heard of that.

Just doesn't make economic or liability sense...

Bob

An inferior HT would not save anywhere near enough to justify the cost of tracking which frame is which. No doubt the first guns got the best heat treat but after that they all got it. The liability issue if a poor HT gun ever got in the magnum line would be enough for every lawyer S&W has to say NO NO NO

About the only thing you could do to improve the strength of a frame would be to add a normalization step after forging to reset the grain growth induced by the high heat needed to forge.
Heating the frame to critical then quenching and tempering is a mater of temperatures as far as strength goes. Doing that after machining is a real poor plan as the temps required to have any effect are very apt to cause dimensional changes.

If you take a cube of 4140 that has been forged to a 1.10x 1.10x 1.10 cube, then machine it to a perfect 1.00x1.00x1.00 cube then heat treat it you will no longer have a perfect cube. The chances in the carbon and iron formations will cause some dimension changes. You can get away with case hardening only because everything only happens right on the surface.

 

[steelslaver]

You could re temper a frame after it was machined with no problems, but the only thing you can accomplish doing treat is making it softer. The forming of martensite occurs during the heat to critical and quench. At that point the piece is as hard as it will ever get. It is also under as much stress and as brittle as it will ever be. Tempering will relieve the stresses and soften it by basically breaking down the size of martensite structures, the higher the temp during the temper cycle the softer the piece becomes and that is not reversible without another heat to critical and quench. During temper some un converted austenite will convert to un tempered martensite. A second temper will take care of that and give you slightly more strength. But all the second temper involves is cooling the piece and re heating it for a while. After that there is nothing you can do to gain anything significant without starting over with a complete hardening cycle.

You heat the piece up to the 1500f needed to get it hard during quench you risk serious deformation. A non machined frame no problem. Finished machined? I have a digitally controlled HT oven that can be flooded with nitrogen and programmed with up to 32 steps and go from one temp to another and hold within 1 degree and I would never try it.

People that case harden frames put plugs in the threads to hold them in shape and run the risk off deformation and they only need to go to 1400f.

 

[toad67]

You could re temper a frame after it was machined with no problems, but the only thing you can accomplish doing treat is making it softer. The forming of martensite occurs during the heat to critical and quench. At that point the piece is as hard as it will ever get. It is also under as much stress and as brittle as it will ever be. Tempering will relieve the stresses and soften it by basically breaking down the size of martensite structures, the higher the temp during the temper cycle the softer the piece becomes and that is not reversible without another heat to critical and quench. During temper some un converted austenite will convert to tempered martensite. A second temper will take care of that and give you slightly more strength. But all the second temper involves is cooling the piece and re heating it for a while. After that there is nothing you can do to gain anything significant without starting over with a complete hardening cycle.

You heat the piece up to the 1500f needed to get it hard during quench you risk serious deformation. An machined frame no problem. Finished machined? I have a digitally controlled HT oven that can be flooded with nitrogen and programmed with upto 32 steps and go from one temp to another and hold within 1 degree and I would never try it.

People that case harden frames put plugs in the threads to hold them in shape and run the risk off deformation and they only need to go to 1400f.

Way above my pay grade, but as always, great info...

 

[Doc Watson]

While I think it is feasible, and have talked with one member who did it. With the cost of the cylinder and the cost of fitting same, I am not sure I am gaining anything over the 44-40, as I can reload both cartridges . So will have to give it some more thought. thanks for all the thoughtful responses to my question.

 

[steelslaver]

If you had to pay someone to do the work involved you would be well on your way to buying a 44 special or magnum.

I work for me for free. LOL

 

[SuperMan]

...except for one thing...where can one get a 5" standard underlug .44 without buying one of the old 29s...something S&W just didn't make enough of.

...and absolutely great posts steelslaver...as was said...way above my pay grade also...

Bob

 

[steelslaver]

I just happen to have a standard lug 44 mag barrel cut down to 5" in my parts pile. But, it needs a trip though my blue tanks before it goes on anything.