Adjustable sight M10???

[Patrick L]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a 4-in adjustable sight K frame 38 be a Combat Masterpiece, or Model 15?

So was in a local gun shop, and perusing the used guns I see what is marked as a used model 10. But, it has adjustable sights, ramped front sight. I also notice it is a five screw gun, and upon examination of course there is no model number stamped inside the yoke.

So, I proceed to tell the clerk that the gun is miss marked. He calls the owner over, who states "Oh no, they made model 10s with adjustable sights." I smile politely, hand the gun back, and say" Well sir, I won't tell you your business."

BTW, the gun did look like it was a refinish. It had a very dull blue, almost like a model 28.

It did occur to me that I could be wrong. Did Smith & Wesson ever make an adjustable sight Model 10? Or is this just the usual gun shop commando nonsense? I really have no dog in this fight since it's not a gun I am interested in, but I was curious.

 

[M29since14]

That would be a new one to me. I side with the gunshop commando theory.

 

[murphydog]

It can't be a five-screw "model 10" because the first of those model stamped guns were from about 1958 with four-screw frames.

And model 10s by definition were fixed sight guns.

You didn't mention a barrel length, but there were a fair number of 6" prewar five-screw .38 Military & Police Target models made, but those would be unusual to have a ramp front sight. Photos would help here.

 

[notsofast]

How much did they want for it?

 

[Patrick L]

IIRC $699?

Murphydog, I get it can't be a Model anything, its pre model. My point is it should be a Combat Masterpiece, or at least "incorrectly marked" as a Model 15. Am I correct on that? And since I don't have the gun, there ain't no photos

 

[Doug M.]

Actually, if it is old enough, I think it would be a "Military and Police Target" or something like that. My knowledge of such is imprecise, but I don't think they called the predecessors to the K38/Combat Masterpiece by a different title until some time soon after WW2.

 

[DWalt]

Yes, K-frame revolvers with adjustable rear sights were available from the beginning as Target models, but the Combat Masterpiece (pre-Model 15) was not on the market until around 1950. The earlier target model revolver rear sights had a much different appearance than the Combat Masterpiece rear sight has. Did this one have a ribbed barrel? Also, target rear sights could have been added to a fixed sight revolver after the gun left the factory. It is remotely possible that what you saw could have been an ultra-rare postwar "Mexican Model," but I do not think those had 4" barrels. A picture would be necessary for a positive ID.

 

[RKmesa]

Most likely a 38 Combat Masterpiece. The early post war ones had a low-luster matte finish (like the Highway Patrolman Revolver). It also had a ramped front sight. Here's a fun informational thread on the Combat Masterpiece (the historical info starts with post 26):

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...e-eye-candy.html?highlight=combat+masterpiece

 

[glowe]

Masterpiece line started in 1946 with the K22 & 38 Masterpiece revolvers. K22 Combat Masterpiece started production in 1948, and the K38 Combat Masterpiece started in 1949 to complete the line. In 1957, each model gots their own number. The K22 Masterpiece became the Model 17, the 22 Combat Masterpiece became the Mode 18. The Model 14 was the K38 Masterpiece and the Model 15 was the K38 Combat Masterpiece. None of the Masterpiece line were Model 10s, even post-1957.

The 38 Military & Police line continued right after the war until the 1957 when it became the Model 10. The main difference between the Masterpiece and the early post-war M&P was the barrel configuration. M&Ps had round barrels and all Masterpiece revolvers had a rib and target sights. There were 38 M&Ps with target sights post-war, but not very popular after the Masterpiece line got established in the marketplace.

 

[Patrick L]

Yes, 4" ribbed barrel with a ramp front sight. Definitely the postwar action. This gun looks exactly like a 5 screw Combat Masterpiece, albeit with a matte finish, which I did not know was a real thing other that with the Highway Patrolman (thank you Richard!)

I'm going to chalk this up to the gun store owner not knowing what he's talking around.

Truth be told, this guy runs a big place in NYS, which ain't easy these days. He's one of the few guys that has managed to keep a supply of ammo and components and does NOT gouge on the prices. I'll let him slide, it's not like he's making some exorbitant claim and trying to charge a fortune for this thing, like others I have seen. He's just not a Smith expert.

 

[DWalt]

Masterpiece line started in 1946 with the K22 & 38 Masterpiece revolvers. K22 Combat Masterpiece started production in 1948, and the K38 Combat Masterpiece started in 1949 to complete the line..

The K-frame Masterpiece line began with the so-called K22/40 Masterpiece (or K22, Second Model) revolver, around 1000 of which were made only in 1940. Production of the K22/40 was curtailed quickly because factory capacity was needed to meet wartime revolver requirements. There were several stylistic differences between the K22/40 and the post-war K22 Masterpiece (or K22, Third Model), the most obvious being the lack of a barrel rib on the K22/40.

The Combat revolver versions were usually designated in print as being .22 or .38 Combat Masterpieces, without the Kxx, prior to the use of Model numbers.

 

[mh51]

Yes, 4" ribbed barrel with a ramp front sight. Definitely the postwar action. This gun looks exactly like a 5 screw Combat Masterpiece, albeit with a matte finish, which I did not know was a real thing other that with the Highway Patrolman (thank you Richard!)

I'm going to chalk this up to the gun store owner not knowing what he's talking around.

Truth be told, this guy runs a big place in NYS, which ain't easy these days. He's one of the few guys that has managed to keep a supply of ammo and components and does NOT gouge on the prices. I'll let him slide, it's not like he's making some exorbitant claim and trying to charge a fortune for this thing, like others I have seen. He's just not a Smith expert.

I'm with you. Some folks just can't admit that they might be wrong when evaluating items. Doesn't mean that I'll quit doing business with them, just means that I'll be a little more skeptical of their evaluations.

 

[Giorgio Italy]

Masterpiece line started in 1946 with the K22 & 38 Masterpiece revolvers. K22 Combat Masterpiece started production in 1948, and the K38 Combat Masterpiece started in 1949 to complete the line. In 1957, each model gots their own number. The K22 Masterpiece became the Model 17, the 22 Combat Masterpiece became the Mode 18. K38 Combat Masterpiece was named the Model 14, while the K22 CM was called Model 15. None of the Masterpiece line were Model 10s, even post-1957.

The 38 Military & Police line continued right after the war until the 1957 when it became the Model 10. The main difference between the Masterpiece and the early post-war M&P was the barrel configuration. M&Ps had round barrels and all Masterpiece revolvers had a rib and target sights. There were 38 M&Ps with target sights post-war, but not very popular after the Masterpiece line got established in the marketplace.

????? .... K38 Combat Masterpiece was named the Model 14, while the K22 CM was called Model 15. .....???

It seems to me that there is some confusion in this sentence! Am I wrong?
Giorgio

 

[RKmesa]

????? .... K38 Combat Masterpiece was named the Model 14, while the K22 CM was called Model 15. .....???

It seems to me that there is some confusion in this sentence! Am I wrong?
Giorgio

Giorgio - you are correct - there is some confusion in the statement that you quoted. To clarify, in 1957, when the factory assigned model numbers to its products...

K38 Masterpiece (6" Barrel) was designated the Model 14
38 Combat Masterpiece (4" Barrel) was designated the Model 15
K22 Masterpiece (6" Barrel) was designated the Model 17
22 Combat Masterpiece (4" Barrel) was designated the Model 18

They are some of my favorite K-Frame revolvers.

 

[Patrick L]

Actually, Giorgio was incorrect. But you got it straightened out for us. Thanks!

 

[M29since14]

…Truth be told, this guy runs a big place in NYS, which ain't easy these days. He's one of the few guys that has managed to keep a supply of ammo and components and does NOT gouge on the prices. I'll let him slide, it's not like he's making some exorbitant claim and trying to charge a fortune for this thing, like others I have seen. He's just not a Smith expert.

Sounds like a decent sort of fellow. We all can't be experts on everything. I'd give him a break, too. Very minor "infraction."

 

[Model19man]

Without clear pictures we are discussing something that doesn't exist. I would say until there are pictures all bets are off.

 

[LPD256]

Actually I love the post war matte finish and the finish on the Highway Patrolman model. To me it speaks to a time when guns were transitioning from being tools of war, parkerized, or more utilitarian. The beginning of the boomer generation. Obviously I love the high polished blue that came later and wonderful nickel guns. But a working gun like the Highway Patrolman gives me thoughts of heroes chasing bad guys.

 

[glowe]

????? .... K38 Combat Masterpiece was named the Model 14, while the K22 CM was called Model 15. .....???

It seems to me that there is some confusion in this sentence! Am I wrong?
Giorgio

Yup, my mistake. The Model 14 was the K38 Masterpiece and the Model 15 was the K38 Combat Masterpiece.

 

[glowe]

. . . The Combat revolver versions were usually designated in print as being .22 or .38 Combat Masterpieces, without the Kxx, prior to the use of Model numbers.

The thread is about post-WWII, and they were the first post-war Masterpiece line plus totally different than the pre-war K22, K32, and K38 Masterpiece line. Also, I use Jim Supica's and Roy Jinks" terminology for K22, since the model was a K frame, had a "K" serial number, plus the name is used by these experts in their books. They are the current readily accessible resources on the subject. Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson and 125 Years of Smith & Wesson