Advantages of 40 vs. 45 ACP?

[BobsSmith]

Just curious, are there any advantages with the 40 S & W vs. 45 ACP, other then possibly magazine capicity?

I have wondered from time to time why the FBI just didn't the 45 ACP.

Best

Bob

 

[oldRoger]

Two that I can think of; lower ammunition cost and lower recoil.
On the other hand, the .40 bullet may fail to expand, but the .45 will not shrink.

I am not certain about the reasons for the FBI decision to go to 10 mm, which came first, rather than .45. I have heard lots of various opinions, perhaps someone here has the facts.
IMO the decision is clouded by the “fog of time”. Wanting something new, not the obsolete 45acp probably was high in the bureaucratic mind.

 

[MattB]

I carry a .40 because of the higher mag capacity (which you mentioned), but other than that the only thing I can think of is that most .40 pistols are smaller than the .45ACP variant of the same pistol (for example the M&P45 fullsize is a noticably larger pistol than the M&P9 and 40).

 

[max]

40 caliber pistols could be made on existing 9mm frames.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

S&W 40 guns are usually cheaper than the 45 and 40 S&W is the last handgun ammo that vendors still have in stock when 9mm and 45acp are sold out.

 

[G-ManBart]

.45s are authorized by the Bureau but it wouldn't have been a good choice for standard issue...simply a size and recoil issue.

Glock 22s are actually big enough that a significant portion of the female agents simply can't conceal them properly..same for some of the smaller men. Right now most are getting a G23 to help with that. It's not a big difference in size, but it's a big difference in concealability.

For the women and men with smaller hands, the G22/23 is about the largest grip size they can shoot well. Going to a G21 wouldn't work at all for many of them and the additional recoil would only make it worse. R,

 

[Shorty4T]

Originally posted by BobsSmith:
I have wondered from time to time why the FBI just didn't the 45 ACP.

There is an excellent post about this topic that I'm sure is burried by several pages. It is an excellent read from some people that are/were close to the FBI at the time.

F.B.I. why .10mm. over .45ACP.

Cheers,
Sam

 

[harry carey]

if you shoot a great deal the advantage with the forty is 1) small pistol or rifle primer works and seats easy 2) less lead costs less sometimes. the Miami shootout changed things at the FBI. 60% of FBI arrests involve automobiles and penetration is important. I think it was Ayoob who did an article showing after action reports , medical examiners info, etc. the FBI people I knew kept that 10mm in the trunk and carried a smaller gun, only using the 10mm to qualify.

 

[mxbob]

There are no advantages that make up for the smaller caliber.
Bob Ray

 

[sasu]

I consider the 40 S&W a 9x19 Plus. The bullet diameter has been increased from 9 mm to 10 mm. Nothing to get excited about.

I shoot 9x19 in practice and competition for its economic ammo availability, no need to reload.

I shoot 45 ACP in competition because of Major scoring and the challenge.

I do not shoot 40 S&W, because it is just a 9x19 with a bigger ego.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Originally posted by mxbob:
There are no advantages that make up for the smaller caliber.
Bob Ray

So we should all carry Howitzers?

 

[sasu]

Originally posted by Lucky Derby:
So we should all carry Howitzers?

Notice he said "the smaller caliber" thus referring to the 40 S&W. Not a smaller caliber in general.

 

[ChadW]

135 gr Federal Premium JHP (.40)
vs
165 gr Federal Premium JHP (.45):

.40: 1,190 ft/s, 424 ft-lb
.45: 1,060 ft/s, 412 ft-lb


165 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP (.40)
vs
185 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP (.45)
vs
200 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP +P (.45)

.40: 1,150 ft/s, 484 ft-lb
.45: 1,050 ft/s, 435 ft-lb
.45(+P): 1,080 ft/s , 518 ft-lb


My point? Both are fine calibers. I personally feel many people like .45 because it's a .45. Just like many people like .9mm because its a 9.

I'd take a .357 mag over anything though.

 

[James NM]

Originally posted by sasu:
I consider the 40 S&W a 9x19 Plus. The bullet diameter has been increased from 9 mm to 10 mm. Nothing to get excited about...

I do not shoot 40 S&W, because it is just a 9x19 with a bigger ego.

Huh? If you don't like 40S&W, just say so. Trying to discredit something you don't like by using a line of BS like you just used is like Obama taking credit for cutting the defecit. Congrats, you and Obama share the same sense of logic.

You say increasing the diameter from 9 to 10mm is "nothing to get excited about". Maybe you're right, it's roughly 1/2 a caliber (.355 vs .400). Doesn't sound like a lot - maybe it isn't. But just for the sake of argument - and objectivity - let's check the difference between the diameter of 40S&W and .45acp. Well slap me silly - it's also roughly 1/2 a caliber (.400 vs .451). So you dismiss 1/2 a caliber increase from 9 to 40, but champion the 1/2 a caliber increase from 40 to 45?

So you say a 40S&W is a "9x19 plus" and a "9x19 with a bigger ego"? Huh?? That's like saying the 45acp is nothing more than a 40S&W with a "bigger ego". Both statements are blatantly false.

And for the record, I own and shoot all three calibers. In reality, there are advantages and disadvantage for each. What is gained by making false statements to justify or rationalize one's choie of caliber?

 

[walkin' trails]

With today's quality ammo, the only rea difference is probably bragging rights.

 

[fyimo]

These discussions go on and on and on and the fact is either caliber will kill you in a heart beat if the shooter hits you in the vitals.

 

[Spotteddog]

And even a grazing shot with a .50 BMG won't either!

 

[BIG DOG]

I say just have one in each caliber then you can choose what you want to carry and what works the nighstand drawer.
Hows that sound?
And........If they happen to be Generation III Smith see me for a New set of Gator Grips the best of both worlds. Great to hold on to and conceals very well
Thanks
G

 

[andyo5]

I can't see why people complain about recoil of the .45 ACP round. I'm just a little guy and I have no trouble shooting it. Especially in an autopistol where much of the recoil is absorbed by the springs.

 

[MWB]

When considering caliber selection, it is important to remember that with their best loads, all modern 'service caliber' pistol cartridges do the same thing to the 'bad guy' - put a ragged-edged hole a bit over a foot deep and about two-thirds of an inch in diameter in his body. Where you put that hole is MUCH more important than a hundredth of an inch or so hole diameter difference. 'Secondary' characteristics, such as muzzle blast and feed reliability, along with controllability in a pistol of a given size and weight are actually more important that illusions of 'stopping power'.

.40 S&W operates at a higher pressure than .45ACP and might be a bit less desirable for home defense use because of its more intense muzzle blast. If greater capacity is required, the 9x19 is the way to go. Also, a more compact pistol can be built around the 9x19 and its shape is inherently more feed reliable than the .40 (or the .45ACP, for that matter).

For me, the .40 is 'neither fish nor fowl'. After considerable .40 S&W trigger time on several platforms, I go with 9x19 for everyday carry - a pair of S&W 3913s, one to carry and one in reserve. If I could afford a third pistol (instead of something more urgent), a .45ACP for nightstand - S&W 4506 or 4566. The .45 would not be chosen for 'stopping power', but for the reduced indoor muzzle blast (there might not be time in certain situations to throw on the amplified hearing protectors kept with my 'bedside kit').