AJ
US Veteran
My experience with the original Series 70 Colt Gold Cup National Match manufactured in 1976 is exactly the opposite of yours.
Advice on a Colt 1911 in 9mm or 38 super please
- Thread starter JRB416
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My experience with the original Series 70 Colt Gold Cup National Match manufactured in 1976 is exactly the opposite of yours.
LittleAugieMo
Member
.38 super....not to be confused w/ .38acp that the colt model.of 1900 was chambered in. Two different cartridges!
AJ
US Veteran
1902's and 1903 Hammer's were also chamber for .38ACP. Pictured is a 1903 Hammer.
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Doug M.
Member
It is possible to make a 9mm 1911 that works, but it not as easy as it is with the 45ACP and Super 38, which are mostly the same length and a better fit for a 1911. If I wanted a 9mm 1911, there was a scaled down model from ... Springfield, I think, but I don't see it on their website now. My Wilson KZ 9 works great, but again, designed around the 9mm and when I first got it I had work with the shop manager to get the mags right.
In reality, the cost for a 1911 set up for me in Super .38 is not worth the $$.
In reality, the cost for a 1911 set up for me in Super .38 is not worth the $$.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Just checked: the combo 9mm/38 Super in electroless nickel for $399.99!
They have 'em! Please see my PM!
Cheers!
Thank you, sir!
aircommuter
Member
I like the 38 super auto. I have a 45 and the 38. Bought each one for $169 each. New in the box. Took it home the same day and it's never gotten the violent virus even though I live in CA.
Although it's gotten a lot better these days, the 9mm has not been a great round for a 1911 single stack platform. The cartridge is really too short for the platform and the fact the 9muther-muther has a tapered case can give feeding issues. The problem is that in a SS mag, the cartridge under the mag feed lips is only supported at the rear end due to the tapered cases. That plus the cartridge is shorter than the .45 acp makes the 9 want to severely nose dive when the slide is trying to strip it from the mag because it pivots on the case under it. Wilson has a newly redesigned mag which cures most problems and he spent a lot of effort in design because of these issues. A while back I noticed that the S&W 9mm 1911s were being shipped with Wilson mags. On the other hand, the .38 Super feeds like stuff through a goose. The case/cartridge is long enough and is not tapered so works well in the 1911 platform.
I can't offer an opinion about the CZ-era guns as the newest Colt I own is 21 years old.
But I can speak to the .38 Super. Once I got going in the caliber, it was a revelation. It started with my buying a not-pretty Government Model off a clubmate that was made in 1947. He tossed in a cheap 9mm barrel but I can't recall the last time I used it.
Most of my 1911s have been in .45 ACP, starting with my very first gun 50+ years ago- I still have it! But the Super's a different thing.
The thing about being the same overall length as the .45 is a significant one. It's hard to explain any better than that the Supers run more smoothly in than do my .45s. You can feel the slide travel at a more constant velocity as it goes forward to pick up the next round. It's the darndest thing.
Being a reloader all along and having been deep in USPSA for a long time, there's no cost difference between 9mm and Super. Nearly all the brass I own I got for free or almost free (excepting the special stuff for match days.
My other Super is a '51 Commander, alloy-framed of course. Neither of my Supers has ever, ever malfunctioned. Heck, I'm almost to where I'm thinking of switching the .38 Commander in place of my long-time carry .45 Commander. I totally trust the gun to work when called upon.
Back a few years when my wife was a sponsored USPSA competitor doing Areas and Nationals, mostly in Single Stack Division (that dates it; anybody remember Single Stack?), she asked her gunsmith sponsor about trying Minor power as it allows two extra rounds in the mag.
He built her two spectacular guns off of Springfield frames and slides but full-on customs. Words fail me at how good these things are. The #1 gun got the double-full treatment and it has the smoothest-racking slide I have ever experienced. It's as if friction does not exist.
She shot it for two full seasons from locals to the National, plus practice of course. Not once did it ever fail to operate perfectly.
So if you want a smooth-running sweetheart of a 1911, .38 Super is right at the top of the list.
Not easy to say for a born-.45 guy.
But I can speak to the .38 Super. Once I got going in the caliber, it was a revelation. It started with my buying a not-pretty Government Model off a clubmate that was made in 1947. He tossed in a cheap 9mm barrel but I can't recall the last time I used it.
Most of my 1911s have been in .45 ACP, starting with my very first gun 50+ years ago- I still have it! But the Super's a different thing.
The thing about being the same overall length as the .45 is a significant one. It's hard to explain any better than that the Supers run more smoothly in than do my .45s. You can feel the slide travel at a more constant velocity as it goes forward to pick up the next round. It's the darndest thing.
Being a reloader all along and having been deep in USPSA for a long time, there's no cost difference between 9mm and Super. Nearly all the brass I own I got for free or almost free (excepting the special stuff for match days.
My other Super is a '51 Commander, alloy-framed of course. Neither of my Supers has ever, ever malfunctioned. Heck, I'm almost to where I'm thinking of switching the .38 Commander in place of my long-time carry .45 Commander. I totally trust the gun to work when called upon.
Back a few years when my wife was a sponsored USPSA competitor doing Areas and Nationals, mostly in Single Stack Division (that dates it; anybody remember Single Stack?), she asked her gunsmith sponsor about trying Minor power as it allows two extra rounds in the mag.
He built her two spectacular guns off of Springfield frames and slides but full-on customs. Words fail me at how good these things are. The #1 gun got the double-full treatment and it has the smoothest-racking slide I have ever experienced. It's as if friction does not exist.
She shot it for two full seasons from locals to the National, plus practice of course. Not once did it ever fail to operate perfectly.
So if you want a smooth-running sweetheart of a 1911, .38 Super is right at the top of the list.
Not easy to say for a born-.45 guy.
9mm National Match
I purchased a Gold Cup National Match in 9mm about a 18 -24 mo. ago. Paid a premium price. Precision was poor with 5 different ammo brands. Used both 115 and 124 gr.
Sent back to Colt. It was returned with target having 3 shots at 15 yrds from Speer 124 gr. (which one?) and no other comments. What testing target pistol at 15 yrds ! and the group was perhaps 1.3-1.5 inch.
Did find Federal and Speer 124 gave "best" results but no where near what my older 45ACP NM can do. Didn't even try 50 yrds.
I have purchased an easy fit Kart barrel but have not installed it yet.
I purchased a Gold Cup National Match in 9mm about a 18 -24 mo. ago. Paid a premium price. Precision was poor with 5 different ammo brands. Used both 115 and 124 gr.
Sent back to Colt. It was returned with target having 3 shots at 15 yrds from Speer 124 gr. (which one?) and no other comments. What testing target pistol at 15 yrds ! and the group was perhaps 1.3-1.5 inch.
Did find Federal and Speer 124 gave "best" results but no where near what my older 45ACP NM can do. Didn't even try 50 yrds.
I have purchased an easy fit Kart barrel but have not installed it yet.
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It has been my understanding that the Colt Supers have headspaced on the case mouth since at least the early- to mid-1990s. A current production model will do so for sure.
Advice on Colt 1911
I have no idea what exactly you are going to use this pistol for but for NRA Bullseye shooting the .45 acp is the only way to go. It pains me to say this because my favorite caliber is the 9x19.
The reason everyone uses the .45 acp is because if your aim is slightly off the bigger diameter of the .45 makes a nick on the next higher scoring ring more probable therefore you score higher and may win.
If you just want a personal plinker buy the 9mm as the brass is often available "for free" because at our shooting range people shoot factory ammo and just let the brass lie there on the ground for anyone who wants it. Now you cannot beat a deal like that. I bet I picked up at least 2,000 free 9x19 brass this year and in the 30 years I have been at the club I think I found 1 piece of .38 super brass.
Now do you really need a .38 super? In reality no you do not as the 9x19 is deadly. I shot a Whitetail deer with the old fashioned "not bonded" Remington 125 grain hollow point golden bullet (now discontinued) and I killed the deer which before dressing weighed out at about 180 lbs with only 1 shot. That is good enough for me and I do not have to buy expensive .38 super brass.
Of course my first option would be the Sig P210 not the Colt 1911 as in 9mm the P210 is tackdriver. Not all 1911 Colts shoot the same. Some shoot good right out of the box and some do not shoot so good. My friends all have Sig P210's and one friend has 7 of them. We never shot an "original" Sig P210 that was not a tack driver. I am speaking of the "original" forged one, not the cast one being made today. The originals are not rare and you can still find them for sale.
I cannot recommend any new handgun today for obvious reasons.
I might also mention with factory or full power loads in the 1911 read that 225 grain projectiles the recoil is not pleasant. Only by loading mid-range cream puff loads is the recoil tolerable for a long shooting session. Not so for the 9mm as you can shoot it till the cows come home and recoil is no problem.
I might also mention if you have short fingers and a lot of men do you will not like the 1911 as the circumference of the grip is way larger than the Sig P210. The Sig P210 fits the hand like a glove and points as well as a German Luger and you cannot get any better than that.
I have no idea what exactly you are going to use this pistol for but for NRA Bullseye shooting the .45 acp is the only way to go. It pains me to say this because my favorite caliber is the 9x19.
The reason everyone uses the .45 acp is because if your aim is slightly off the bigger diameter of the .45 makes a nick on the next higher scoring ring more probable therefore you score higher and may win.
If you just want a personal plinker buy the 9mm as the brass is often available "for free" because at our shooting range people shoot factory ammo and just let the brass lie there on the ground for anyone who wants it. Now you cannot beat a deal like that. I bet I picked up at least 2,000 free 9x19 brass this year and in the 30 years I have been at the club I think I found 1 piece of .38 super brass.
Now do you really need a .38 super? In reality no you do not as the 9x19 is deadly. I shot a Whitetail deer with the old fashioned "not bonded" Remington 125 grain hollow point golden bullet (now discontinued) and I killed the deer which before dressing weighed out at about 180 lbs with only 1 shot. That is good enough for me and I do not have to buy expensive .38 super brass.
Of course my first option would be the Sig P210 not the Colt 1911 as in 9mm the P210 is tackdriver. Not all 1911 Colts shoot the same. Some shoot good right out of the box and some do not shoot so good. My friends all have Sig P210's and one friend has 7 of them. We never shot an "original" Sig P210 that was not a tack driver. I am speaking of the "original" forged one, not the cast one being made today. The originals are not rare and you can still find them for sale.
I cannot recommend any new handgun today for obvious reasons.
I might also mention with factory or full power loads in the 1911 read that 225 grain projectiles the recoil is not pleasant. Only by loading mid-range cream puff loads is the recoil tolerable for a long shooting session. Not so for the 9mm as you can shoot it till the cows come home and recoil is no problem.
I might also mention if you have short fingers and a lot of men do you will not like the 1911 as the circumference of the grip is way larger than the Sig P210. The Sig P210 fits the hand like a glove and points as well as a German Luger and you cannot get any better than that.
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Interesting thread on the 9mm/38S calibers conversions.
I have done one conversion from 9mm TO 38S with just a barrel, recoil spring and extractor change. I did have to open up the breech face just a tad on that one. Another conversion on a Kimber Eclipse 38S TO 9mm, just a barrel and a recoil spring, both of them will feed anything I put in them, all my reloads BTW.
I Have also converted a Rock Island 45 to a 40mm with only a barrel, nothing else, I never cared for the 40S&W until I shot it in a 5" 1911. Really tames it down. I think the Rock Islands are the International Harvester of 1911's, You just can't hurt them and they just keep on working. Like an old Scout, Not pretty, but a work horse and dependable
As to the Caliber issue I like all the above. 9mm,38Super 45. I have been lucky I guess having no real issues with feeding on any of them.
I have a Colt Gov'mt competition 9mm and it is a dream, shoots better than I do, and a Gold cup that is just a tack driver in 45. Great guns, all of them. I shoot what works for me and performs. Colt, Springfield, S&W, Rock Island, I like them all. If it's a 1911, I like it, regardless of caliber
I have done one conversion from 9mm TO 38S with just a barrel, recoil spring and extractor change. I did have to open up the breech face just a tad on that one. Another conversion on a Kimber Eclipse 38S TO 9mm, just a barrel and a recoil spring, both of them will feed anything I put in them, all my reloads BTW.
I Have also converted a Rock Island 45 to a 40mm with only a barrel, nothing else, I never cared for the 40S&W until I shot it in a 5" 1911. Really tames it down. I think the Rock Islands are the International Harvester of 1911's, You just can't hurt them and they just keep on working. Like an old Scout, Not pretty, but a work horse and dependable
As to the Caliber issue I like all the above. 9mm,38Super 45. I have been lucky I guess having no real issues with feeding on any of them.
I have a Colt Gov'mt competition 9mm and it is a dream, shoots better than I do, and a Gold cup that is just a tack driver in 45. Great guns, all of them. I shoot what works for me and performs. Colt, Springfield, S&W, Rock Island, I like them all. If it's a 1911, I like it, regardless of caliber
Kinda doesn't pertain but.....re the probs with 9mm; I have one, It's a RIA tho not a Colt; got about a thousand round thru and have not had anything close to a prob. That and the Springfield SA 35 are my two favorite semis.
I hand load my ammo, so shooting 38 Super costs the same as 9mm.
So I see it as "why shoot a 9mm when you can shoot a 38 Super for the same cost?"
AJ
US Veteran
I hand load too. I prefer the .38 Super, hate handling those tiny 9MM cases compared to the .38 Super cases.....
I also like having the extra power, even though I'm only killing paper or clumps of dirt!
I prefer loading/shooting 38 Super over 9x19 too and while the bullets cost exactly the same they do use more powder but the cases are the big price difference.
You can scoop up all of the once fired 9x19 brass you want but not so much 38 Super.
Of course if you never loose any brass it's macht nichts.
.
The difference in powder doesn't add up to a hill of beans. Casings are not a huge factor either for me.
I bought 200 38 Super Comp cases for about $50 shortly after I got the pistol. I suppose they are on their fifth reload now, so the cost per firing is next to nothing.
I bought 200 38 Super Comp cases for about $50 shortly after I got the pistol. I suppose they are on their fifth reload now, so the cost per firing is next to nothing.
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