silentflyer
Member
Another good reason to avoid springs and plastic, not just S&W but all of them. Make mine metal....
Again, another Shield 40 blow up... R.I.P.
- Thread starter ChrisfromCT
- Start date
Reading The Owner's Manual...
I do not recall the OP mentioning whether he bought the pistol new or used. Any warranty only applies to the original owner, and then only if he can prove it via register receipt or a copy of the 4473.
Secondly, just like using reloads, installing aftermarket trigger kits voids the warranty.
From the M&P Shield Manual page 23:
"WARNING: DO NOT ALTER, MODIFY OR REPLACE ANY OF
THE PARTS OF YOUR FIREARM UNLESS THIS WORK IS PERFORMED BY A QUALIFIED GUNSMITH USING GENUINE SMITH & WESSON PARTS. IF YOU DO OTHERWISE, IMPROPER FUNCTIONING MAY OCCUR AND SERIOUS INJURY MAY RESULT.
WARNING: NEVER DISASSEMBLE YOUR HANDGUN BEYOND THE FIELD STRIPPING PROCESS OUTLINED IN THIS MANUAL. NEVER MANIPULATE ANY INTERNAL COMPONENTS BEYOND WHAT YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED TO DO IN THIS MANUAL SINCE THIS MAY AFFECT THE RELIABILITY, FUNCTIONING AND SAFETY OF YOUR HANDGUN."
And page 24:
"WARNING: ALWAYS FOLLOW THE FIELD STRIPPING INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. NEVER DO ANYTHING BEYOND WHAT YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED TO DO IN THIS MANUAL. NEVER ALTER OR MODIFY THE PARTS IN YOUR PISTOL."
And page 30:
CAUTION:
"Never disassemble your firearm beyond the instructions in the Field Stripping and Inspection sections of this manual."
Page 31:
"WARNING: NEVER MANIPULATE, ADJUST OR CHANGE ANY OF THE INTERNAL COMPONENTS OF YOUR FIREARM UNLESS SPECIFICALLY DIRECTED TO DO SO IN THIS MANUAL. IMPROPER MANIPULATION OF ANY INTERNAL COMPONENT MAY AFFECT THE SAFETY AND RELIABILITY OF YOUR FIREARM AND MAY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.
WARNING: ANY MAINTENANCE OR SERVICE NOT SPECIFIED IN THIS MANUAL MUST BE PERFORMED BY A QUALIFIED GUNSMITH USING GENUINE SMITH & WESSON PARTS. IF YOU DO OTHERWISE, IMPROPER FUNCTIONING OF YOUR FIREARM MAY OCCUR AND SERI- OUS INJURY OR DEATH MAY RESULT."
And finally, the warranty statements:
"This warranty is granted by Smith & Wesson Corp. This warranty is effective from the date of purchase and applies to the original owner of any firearm... Any such defects of which Smith & Wesson receives written notice within one year from the date of purchase by the original owner, will be remedied by Smith & Wesson without charge ... In addition, a copy of the bill of sale in the owner’s name, or a copy of ATF Form 4473 indicating date of purchase must be included...
Smith & Wesson will not be responsible for:
• Defects or malfunctions resulting from ... unauthorized adjustments or modifications made or attempted by anyone other than a qualified gunsmith following Smith & Wesson authorized procedures, or failure to follow the disassembly instructions in the Smith & Wesson manual.
And just in case no one read it the previous five times, S&W printed a reminder on page 35:
"WARNING: YOU MAY PURCHASE ACCESSORIES FOR YOUR SMITH & WESSON FIREARM. YOU MUST HAVE SOME OF THESE PARTS INSTALLED BY A GUNSMITH QUALIFIED TO PERFORM SERVICE ON SMITH & WESSON FIREARMS.YOU MUST NEVER ATTEMPT TO MODIFY YOUR FIREARM OR INSTALL REPLACEMENT PARTS IN YOUR FIREARM. ALWAYS USE A QUALIFIED SMITH & WESSON GUNSMITH EVEN IF THE REPAIR SEEMS TO BE SIMPLE."
I do not recall the OP mentioning whether he bought the pistol new or used. Any warranty only applies to the original owner, and then only if he can prove it via register receipt or a copy of the 4473.
Secondly, just like using reloads, installing aftermarket trigger kits voids the warranty.
From the M&P Shield Manual page 23:
"WARNING: DO NOT ALTER, MODIFY OR REPLACE ANY OF
THE PARTS OF YOUR FIREARM UNLESS THIS WORK IS PERFORMED BY A QUALIFIED GUNSMITH USING GENUINE SMITH & WESSON PARTS. IF YOU DO OTHERWISE, IMPROPER FUNCTIONING MAY OCCUR AND SERIOUS INJURY MAY RESULT.
WARNING: NEVER DISASSEMBLE YOUR HANDGUN BEYOND THE FIELD STRIPPING PROCESS OUTLINED IN THIS MANUAL. NEVER MANIPULATE ANY INTERNAL COMPONENTS BEYOND WHAT YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED TO DO IN THIS MANUAL SINCE THIS MAY AFFECT THE RELIABILITY, FUNCTIONING AND SAFETY OF YOUR HANDGUN."
And page 24:
"WARNING: ALWAYS FOLLOW THE FIELD STRIPPING INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. NEVER DO ANYTHING BEYOND WHAT YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED TO DO IN THIS MANUAL. NEVER ALTER OR MODIFY THE PARTS IN YOUR PISTOL."
And page 30:
CAUTION:
"Never disassemble your firearm beyond the instructions in the Field Stripping and Inspection sections of this manual."
Page 31:
"WARNING: NEVER MANIPULATE, ADJUST OR CHANGE ANY OF THE INTERNAL COMPONENTS OF YOUR FIREARM UNLESS SPECIFICALLY DIRECTED TO DO SO IN THIS MANUAL. IMPROPER MANIPULATION OF ANY INTERNAL COMPONENT MAY AFFECT THE SAFETY AND RELIABILITY OF YOUR FIREARM AND MAY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.
WARNING: ANY MAINTENANCE OR SERVICE NOT SPECIFIED IN THIS MANUAL MUST BE PERFORMED BY A QUALIFIED GUNSMITH USING GENUINE SMITH & WESSON PARTS. IF YOU DO OTHERWISE, IMPROPER FUNCTIONING OF YOUR FIREARM MAY OCCUR AND SERI- OUS INJURY OR DEATH MAY RESULT."
And finally, the warranty statements:
"This warranty is granted by Smith & Wesson Corp. This warranty is effective from the date of purchase and applies to the original owner of any firearm... Any such defects of which Smith & Wesson receives written notice within one year from the date of purchase by the original owner, will be remedied by Smith & Wesson without charge ... In addition, a copy of the bill of sale in the owner’s name, or a copy of ATF Form 4473 indicating date of purchase must be included...
Smith & Wesson will not be responsible for:
• Defects or malfunctions resulting from ... unauthorized adjustments or modifications made or attempted by anyone other than a qualified gunsmith following Smith & Wesson authorized procedures, or failure to follow the disassembly instructions in the Smith & Wesson manual.
And just in case no one read it the previous five times, S&W printed a reminder on page 35:
"WARNING: YOU MAY PURCHASE ACCESSORIES FOR YOUR SMITH & WESSON FIREARM. YOU MUST HAVE SOME OF THESE PARTS INSTALLED BY A GUNSMITH QUALIFIED TO PERFORM SERVICE ON SMITH & WESSON FIREARMS.YOU MUST NEVER ATTEMPT TO MODIFY YOUR FIREARM OR INSTALL REPLACEMENT PARTS IN YOUR FIREARM. ALWAYS USE A QUALIFIED SMITH & WESSON GUNSMITH EVEN IF THE REPAIR SEEMS TO BE SIMPLE."
Rastoff
US Veteran
Setback due to recoil? If that were to happen, it would mean a very poor crimp. I guess it could happen, but is very unlikely. Also, a crimp that weak might offset the increased pressure and allow it to off gas around the bullet.
Don't really know, but it is an interesting thought.
This is really the crux of all that warranty stuff you posted. I don't see how any trigger part could cause a cartridge to malfunction.
Chris,
You say that you couldn't even find the damaged brass and it loaded another round. In every previous case, the damaged brass was found. Even in a pile of brass an exploded case would be obvious and not far from where you were standing.
Are you even sure this was a kaboom?
ditto1958
Member
That's probably going to win in a court of law, but not in the court of public opinion. Smith has competitors who either have express no questions asked lifetime warranties, or, who like Ruger, simply stand behind their products. Ruger does not even have a written warranty, but if something breaks, they fix it, or replace the product.
You can take your 20 year old Glock to Smyrna, and, while you wait, they'll clean and service it, and replace anything inside it that's old and worn with brand new innards.
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There are like five or six cases, and they get told again and again.
Virtually all of them are either (1) Used guns - Hey, I'm not an expert but it looked good to me!, (2) Reloads - Hey, I'm not a reloader but my cousin knows what he's doing, (3) Dirt cheap, unheard of ammunition - Hey I cant read cyrillic either but it chambers so it should fire okay, or (4) and this is the biggie - an aftermarket trigger kit - Hey, I'm not a gunsmith but how could allowing an amateur to replace the innards have anything to do with a malfunction.
I'm not saying there isn't a problem and I'm not saying there is. All I know is that unless and until someone has a problem with a gun that hasn't been monkeyed with, S&W won't know if or what the problem could be.
"The court of public opinion" seems to want to be able to do whatever they desire and not be held responsible.
IMO
There are like five or six cases, and they get told again and again.
Virtually all of them are either (1) Used guns - Hey, I'm not an expert but it looked good to me!, (2) Reloads - Hey, I'm not a reloader but my cousin knows what he's doing, (3) Dirt cheap, unheard of ammunition - Hey I cant read cyrillic either but it chambers so it should fire okay, or (4) and this is the biggie - an aftermarket trigger kit - Hey, I'm not a gunsmith but how could allowing an amateur to replace the innards have anything to do with a malfunction.
I'm not saying there isn't a problem and I'm not saying there is. All I know is that unless and until someone has a problem with a gun that hasn't been monkeyed with, S&W won't know if or what the problem could be.
"The court of public opinion" seems to want to be able to do whatever they desire and not be held responsible.
IMO
The fact that all these problems are happening with the .40 makes me believe there is a problem. How many shooters shoot reloads, cheap ammo and monkey with there guns using the 9mm, and you hear nothing. Also how many cases are not documented on this forum, I'm pretty sure this will be more than 5-6 cases.
Well Josh, I guess you are from the Show Me State????? LOL
Cal44
Member
I don't have a shield, but I wonder if trying to fit a barrel for 40 cal into a frame made for 9mm has resulted in too thin walls on the barrel?
This may explain why you don't see kaboom reports for the larger 40 cal guns.
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Smitty357
Member
Doubt it because the 9mm was built around the .40. Not the other way around.
Rastoff
US Veteran
(Edited for brevity.) Sorry, but Ruger would say the same thing. This is exactly why Ruger doesn't have a written warranty; so they can refuse to work on guns that were damaged through no fault of their own.
What most seem to miss here is that the Shield in question didn't fail. It operated as intended. When an over pressure round is fired, the chamber doesn't explode which would send shrapnel all over the place. In all of these cases the energy was directed down and mostly absorbed by the frame of the gun. Saying that S&W is responsible for this is like saying a motorcycle helmet manufacturer is responsible for the busted helmet after an accident.
Had the chamber ruptured, I would agree that the fault lies squarely in S&W's court. That didn't happen.
G.T. Smith
US Veteran
I'm just glad that your guardian angel was watching over you and you weren't hurt. To heck with the gun.
Peace,
Gordon
Peace,
Gordon
OP
ChrisfromCT
Member
Yea I told them to send it back because Winchester wanted to test the pistol and leftover rounds. They didn't seem to flinch. It should be back in my possession soon... maybe I will see it in a week or so, who knows. I will post photos of the damage when it gets back
OP
ChrisfromCT
Member
Thanks for the info. I bought the pistol new.
For what its worth S&W didn't say anything about the warranty being void because of the trigger. What I took from the conversations was that the gun was still covered under warranty, but they weren't the ones at fault for the damage so they will not replace it.
Also just to be clear, I was aware that the trigger might void the warranty of the pistol. I am, and was always ok with that. The reason for me posting on here was just to point out another situation where this specific gun blew up... even with the modifications. I mean, why would they bother testing it if they knew it was void from the beginning? Its not like they wouldn't notice an aluminum trigger.
If my warranty is void, so what. All I am left with is one less gun, all of my fingers, and some information for you guys and gals to discuss.
OP
ChrisfromCT
Member
My pistol blew up and cracked when I shot it. Id say that counts, no?
I looked for a ruptured casing and even slightly damaged casings. Eventually you are analyzing every shell with the same head stamps on the ground - and when you find something remotely close to what you think you shot, who knows if that was even the shell that caused the problem
jdyer225
Member
I can't put my finger on it, but it's my favorite gun.
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STRONGNUFF
Member
I think that this pictures speaks volumes as to a potential cause. That is "MASSIVE" bullet setback !
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Mossy Pops
Member
The problem I'm having with the accusations regarding the Shield 40 design is that there only appears to be anecdotal evidence being presented surrounding failure events, particularly around the number of failures and the causes.
The best arguments I'm hearing are those that apply known ammunition faults such as over pressure events from compressed powder charges to under powder charges leaving a bullet in the barrel.
An old rule of troubleshooting was to look for horses, not zebras. It just seems much more likely that the ammo is at the heart of these failures, not a gun design. Based on the anecdotal evidence, there just doesn't seem to be enough failures to point at a design issue. Maybe some clever lawyer will prove design negligence and clean up in the courts. Of course that would assume that lawyers watch these kind of things looking for opportunities to sue
. Has anyone heard of a lawsuit over the Shield?
