All things .380

I pocket carry a Sig P238 380 and have a Colt model 1908 nickel 380 made in 1911. Am a bullet caster with 95 grain round nose cast and loaded 3000 rds of 380 this winter on a progressive loader. So won't have to mess with 380's for a long time.

Colt 380

IMG_001615.JPG
 
Couple of things:
1. Lost Lake, bad news for you, there is not a .380 made that will penetrate a bear skull. Or get through all that muscle/fat to the spine.
2. The good news, a .380 WILL stop just about any 2 legged varmint, you just need a central nervous system hit. That is what I train for with flat point 100 gr loads. A CNS or a pelvic cradle hit with one of those will drop anyone-but you must TRAIN to do that.
I carry a Sig 232 or a Walther PPK/S off duty because those are the mandated .380 autos by my agency. My preference is my BHP whenever possible and/or my 940. I have my fathers 100 year old 1908 Colt in 380 and it is as deadly as the day he bought it in 1913, put in a much stiffer recoil spring for the newer hotter loads.
For the .380 I do not trust an HP load, even the really expensive loads. A 100 gr FMJ flat point will do the job if you do your part-bullet placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin. Not my original, but suffices.
My prefderences for hit areas:
1. Throat right through to the spine
2. Head above the eyes or though one or both eyes.
3. Pelvic cradle-no one can move after a hit there-but they may still be able to shoot. This presumes that the hit shatters something, and my .380 loads will.
 
Speaking of Bears/ Woman Stops Grizzly Bear With 380

What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?

The Beretta 380 auto

While out hiking in Alberta Canada with my boyfriend we were surprised by a huge grizzly bear charging at us from out of no where. She must have been protecting her cubs because she was extremely aggressive.

If I had not had my little Beretta 380 with me I would not be here today!

just one shot to my boyfriend's knee cap was all it took…….the bear got him and I was able to escape by just walking away at a brisk pace.

It's one of the best pistols in my collection……...
 
I pocket carry a Sig P238, .380 whenever i go out.. Just something you get comfortable doing. I actually traded a BG .380 in for it...The BG had the longest trigger pull i've ever seen. Felt nice in my hand, BUT........
 
I've got a nickel Browning BDA 380 that I bought because I loved the look of it . It's a double stack and fits my hand perfectly . A metal frame so it's not real light . It's accurate and goes bang everytime I pull the trigger . I don't carry it but I wouldn't have a problem doing so . After all I carry a Seecamp 32 on occasion .

Regards ,
George
 
I'm wondering just when the purported +p rnd will be out, rumor is their is one out their already, and can blowback recoil handle it?
 
S&W Walther PPK/S. I bought this gun new and love it. It isn't a pocket gun but since I wasn't looking for a pocket gun it is perfect for me. It feels perfect in my hand and is VERY accurate using the CT laser. The iron sights are accurate as well but are small and would not be easily acquired under stress...I am sold on CT grips for my carry guns. As others have said the Bersa is a PPK clone...my Dad has a Bersa but it is not as reliable as my Walther. In the Bersa's defense it has very few rounds fired and would probably benefit from a little more use.

My Walther loves full power defense ammo and since I load for it I have found a couple of loads that work perfectly. Most .380's will be a little more shooter and ammo sensitive than larger calibers...I found the zone for mine and trust it 100%.:)

I bought the two tone for my oldest daughter...she liked mine so much I had to get one for her in order to keep mine at home!;)
 

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AKAOV1MAN said:
Couple of things:
1. Lost Lake, bad news for you, there is not a .380 made that will penetrate a bear skull. Or get through all that muscle/fat to the spine.
2. The good news, a .380 WILL stop just about any 2 legged varmint, you just need a central nervous system hit.
Click to expand...

Well I'm not taking a .380 bear hunting... :p

I was trying to get people thinking about the difference in caliber effectiveness.

The more I study bullet energy the more I find there is to know. None of us can use two different calibers in the same exact SD shooting and hit the same exact spot under the same exact circumstances so we have to rely on science and testing to show us the difference in bullet effectiveness.

We've all seen the FBI ballistics report that indicated the smallest round that could be considered effective for stopping humans is the 9mm, but the report doesn't get into the science of the reason why.

I believe (and I'm no physicist) that the 'energy' numbers you see on charts and bullet boxes expressed in ft/lbs of energy are extremely misleading. This is due to a number of factors, all which tend to muddy the equations and field results we observe.

For the sake of brevity, I will cut to the chase and throw this out there: A bullet's momentum is a much better indicator of its stopping power than its calculated energy. Energy and Momentum are not the same. (For more on this you can cruise the physics blogs and really rattle your brain..) :confused:

And once we look at why momentum is so important and effective we begin to understand why a low weight projectile is much less effective than a heavier projectile, even if their 'energy' in ft/lbs is similar. (By the way that whole ft/lbs number is extremely aggravating to a physicist discussing bullet effectiveness ;) )

You've heard the old timers, street cops, long time shooters tell us the .38 special is a good round. I used to poo-poo the thought because the .380 posts very similar ft/lbs of energy. But after a lot of digging and scientific reading, I think the old pros really know what they are talking about. ;)

I'll take a 158gr .38 over a 90gr .380 any day because it has a lot more momentum and thus a lot more effectiveness.

I do not wish to argue this at all. My intent is not to disrespect anyone or the .380. I'm just sharing a tiny bit of what I have learned and offering you the opportunity to do your own research.
 
I'm going to offer a little defense of the .380 calibre (for defensive purposes) from a slightly different perspective. Of course, some will differ in opinion and I welcome the replies.
First, the purpose of defensive protection is NOT to kill an attacker, but rather to stop the attack. Granted, killing the attacker will certainly do that - but it's not suppose to be the intended purpose. I am determined to defend myself with lethal force if necessary, but if I can avoid having to deal with the moral and potential legal consequences of killing someone, I certainly want to.
Secondly, as demonstrated in this thread, most people will never have the need to even raise their firearm in self-defense, and considering that 9 out of 10 threats are averted by the perpetrator simply "seeing that you have a gun" the odds are EXTREMEMLY small of running into the one-out of ten attackers who are determined to continue...even when shot.
Like many of you I've watched many videos of attackers fleeing when confronted with a firearm. Did you notice that NONE of the attackers stopped to see what calibre the gun was before deciding to run?
In conclussion, I carry to protect myself and loved ones (and a fellow citizen, should the circumstance present itself), and therefore it's important to have a firearm with me at all times. Pocket carry of a .380 allows for this without any changes to my style of dress or clothing purchases...and I never feel undergunned.
 
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Science and phychology, its probably all correct. Shooting the eyes out of moving target, I can't do that. But I can put 8 .380 rnds center mass in about 3 seconds. Try that with a .45. Bear might walk thru that. Should intimidate most humans though.
 
Until recently, the last .380 I owned and carried was a Beretta 84, and it's been more than 25 years since I owned and carried that one.

Last Fall I tried a friend's LCP, compared it to a BG380, and surprised myself by buying a LCP.

Why? Because it slips into some pants & jacket pockets that are too small for my J-frames. Simple as that.

I'd heard some good reports of the LCP's functioning from some of our folks carrying them, and my friend had nothing but good things to say about his (and he's another firearms instructor of many years experience).

My LCP has reliably fed & fired the FMJFP practice ammo we use, as well as Rem 102gr GS, Speer 90gr GDHP & Win 95gr T-Series.

The practical accuracy of my LCP has been surprisingly good. Although the sights are rudimentary and hard to see well (reminds me of older J-frame irons), if there's enough light to see and pick them up, the little gun will produce a ragged hole using any of the above ammunition out to 5 yds. I can achieve small fist-sized groups from 7-12 yds, and respectable groups beyond that range. At 1-3 yds, shooting fast-paced shot strings 1-handed hip/center-indexed, it'll produce fist-sized groups. That ought to be decent enough for my intended needs.

While I'd prefer one of my J-frames, I can carry the LCP in some instances where I can't conceal one of my J-frames (and when I don't want to wear a larger belt gun).

I'd have picked up a BG380, except the LCP is a little smaller and I didn't want the added bulk of the integral laser. The BG380 has better sights, and the grip is just enough larger that it might be preferable for some folks.

The littlest .380's aren't for everybody. (Neither are the 5-shot .38 snubs. ;) )

I've found a use for mine as one of my retirement weapons ... but I'm not going to try and make it into something that it isn't. Given my druthers, I'd much prefer to have a 125gr, 130gr, 135gr or 158gr bullet weight ... which means one of my J-frames ... but there have been times when one of my J-'s just didn't work with my chosen dress of the circumstances.

I'm no longer required to wear a belt gun every day, nor do I wish to do so in many circumstances. For most instances where I don't feel the need to belt on one of my 9, .40 or .45's, I can slip a J-frame into a pocket holster and go about my daily activities.

For those times when even the J's are a bit too large or heavy, though?

Well, after more than 25 years I've found a diminutive pocket pistol chambered in .380 which can fill a role, for me.

It's a larger caliber than the assorted .22, .25 & .32 offerings, and there's been some development in the defensive ammunition being offered.

It's still not a .38 S&W Special ... but I can carry it when I can't carry one of my .38's, or at least not as easily. That works for me.
 
Fastbolt,
Thanks for the well worded comments. I suspect that even when I do purchase my next handgun - most likelly a.40 cal Smith & Wesson, I will still choose to carry my .380 about 95% of the time because gun belt just aren't as stylish as my taste dictate....and I'm not giving up my style! :)
 
The first gun I bought was a PK380 for the express purpose of concealed carry. I was disappointed in the caliber and the quality and it took me about a month to realize I didn't want to find out it wasn't enough gun by finding out it wasn't enough gun.
traded it for a S&W1911 subcompact in .45acp.

To be brutally honest, with all the small framed 9mm pistols out there I find no reason at all that anyone would want to carry a .380

IB
 
I won't copy and quote you guys but posts 41 and 43 were both excellent! :D

You are both so right and everything you said was true.
Yes, usually pulling a weapon of any kind will result in an attacker rethinking where he is supposed to be at the moment.

Perhaps a bigger round will stop someone better, but it also depends on shot placement.

Where am I going? Right where posts 41 and 43 were. Is the .380 effective? Depending on which parameters you judge it on, I'd give it a conservative yes.

But then so are the .22, .25 and .32. ;)
 
georgepittenger said:
I've got a nickel Browning BDA 380 that I bought because I loved the look of it . It's a double stack and fits my hand perfectly . A metal frame so it's not real light . It's accurate and goes bang everytime I pull the trigger . I don't carry it but I wouldn't have a problem doing so . After all I carry a Seecamp 32 on occasion .

Regards ,
George
Click to expand...


I have one of those also. Bought mine back around 1990. Nice shooting gun.
 
Ironbark said:
To be brutally honest, with all the small framed 9mm pistols out there I find no reason at all that anyone would want to carry a .380
Click to expand...

Nothing "brutal" about your comment. ;)

Individual perspectives and experiences can vary a bit, though.

That's the reason I got rid of my Beretta 84. I could get a compact 9mm that held as many rounds and was as easily carried as the .380 compact. Or, I could carry my Star PD .45 compact. ;)

The thing is, I couldn't find any diminutive 9mm pistols, that I wanted to own & carry, which are as small as the LCP or BG380. The LC9 & Shield 9 I recently tried on our range just weren't nearly as small as the LCP (or BG380). Neither was the PM9 I tried. (I've looked at a Nano, and it's not as small as the LCP. ;) )

Even if I buy a Shield 9, the LCP will still occupy a place in my retirement collection, solely for reason of its overall size and ease of concealment carry in many of the situations & circumstances that matter to me.

I never expected to own, carry & use another .380 pistol. Not at all.

Well, Never Say Never, I suppose. ;)

"Ballistic Effectiveness" is a subject that involves too many shades of grey for anyone to offer a definitive answer that will ever satisfy everyone.

When I was younger, I used to be one of those guys who thought that only a .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum/Special, .45 Colt or .45 ACP were "worthy" defensive calibers.

As a young cop I carried an issued .357 Magnum on-duty and either a "full-size fighting revolver" (remember when that appellation was popular? :D ) chambered in .357 or .44 Magnum off-duty, or else my .45 Commander.

After a career in LE, and having worked as a firearms instructor for over 20 years, my opinions have changed and evolved over time. I own several 9's & .40's, and a slew of .45's (barrel lengths of 3.25", 3.5", 3.75", 4.25", 4.5" & 5"), and I still have revolvers chambered in .38/.357, .44 & .45 Colt ... but the most commonly carried guns are my small 9's/.40's & my 5-shot J's.

Until I picked up the LCP, that is. Now, it sees an increasing amount of use. I would not carry it, however, if I couldn't shoot it accurately, controllably & effectively. That's me.

I also wouldn't carry it as a "duty gun", as I recognize its inherent caliber limitations.

I don't shill or proselytize handguns, handgun calibers or ammunition. I work with what someone is either required to use, or chooses to use ... and we focus on training, skillset, experience and mindset.
 
Fastbolt makes some great points.

I will only add that no amount of training can prepare you for the real deal. When the adrenaline is coursing, the hands are shaking and the hearts pounding could you put a low power small calibre round where it needs to go to stop someone from taking your life or that of a loved one?

Why even take the chance?

IB
 
My EDC is a LCP in the hip pocket of my Levis ... fits perfectly. It is deadly accruate at SD distances and it is extremely reliable. I have it loaded with Magtech 95gr FMJ.
 
Ironbark
I've looked at some of the smaller 9mm's, including the Kimber Solo which I intended to buy...prior to testing it. The size and controls were perfect, and even though it's a "pricey" gun I felt I just had to have one..again, prior to testing it. Even when Kimber works out the reliability issues I still won't purchase it. Why? Because I am convinced that, like most "micro 9mm's" the gun just has too much power to be contained and controlled in such a small package. The Smith & Wesson Shield is about as small as I feel a 9mm can be made without sacrificing "recoil absorbing weight", and grip size (and thereby, some shot control)..and it is definitelly NOT a pocket carry pistol. So now we're back to "selective carrying".
I remain convinced that at self-defense distances a few well placed shots from a good .380 will give MOST attackers pause, and, depending on shot placement...even end their life.
Calibre is NOT king! I read a story about a cop who was attacked by a guy during a traffic stop. The guy has the cop on the ground and thecop is screaming for help. A armed citizen came to his aid, drew his weapon and ordered the guy to back off. When he didn't, the citizen put (5) rounds of .40 S&W in his chest at less than 12 feet...and the guy was STILL beating the cop!!! Finally, the citizen gave him one to the head, killing him. That guy represented to 10% that are no respecters of calibre, and there aren't many like that out there. IMHO
 
Agree with you Protected One,

There certainly is no I win solution. That's why my argument is stack the odds in your favour as much as possible.

IB
 
Ironbark said:
That's why my argument is stack the odds in your favour as much as possible.

IB
Click to expand...

I agree. If you can carry a bigger round and shoot a bigger round then I believe it is an advantage to do so. That's where I was going with the bear attack / choose your weapon scenario....

But if you are great with a smaller gun, or it's all you can hide well, then by golly that's the one to carry!

My real peeve is the guys that only own a .32 or .25 and then tell everyone that it is a real potent man-stopper and all anyone really needs to carry... "Why with a good brain shot I can take down any attacker and all I ever train to do is consistent brain shots, I could never miss!"

Yeah, whatever. :p
 
I'm sure you've all seen the video of the 71 yr old man in Florida who foiled a armed robbery attempt by two thugs...with his Taurus .380?

Kinda warms your heart, doesn't it? :)
 
SIG P230

Never had any of the plastic wonder .380's. The first handgun I bought was a 1934 Beretta .380 in 1963. Don't have that one anymore.

The second .380 I bought years later was a steel frame Colt Mustang. It was OK but heavy for size.

This SIG P230 is the only other .380 I've owned. Got it and seven boxes of ammo as "boot" when trading a S&W revolver for a Colt revolver.

I probably wouldn't have bought it but I've now become attached to it as it is such a good and accurate shooter. I carry it some but usually in an ankle holster as a BUG.

It is a keeper...full of Gold Dots

404226087.jpg
 
There is a relativelly new ammo manufacturer in Arizona named HPR. Anyone shot any of their .380 rounds?
 
To all Bodyguard owners. You may want o consider getting a Pachmyer grip for your .380. Mine came yesterday ($15 incl shp on ebay) and it gives the grip a better size, making it more comfortable in the hand, and though I haven't shot with it yet I'm expecting improved accuracy.
 
Been doing the "pocket gun thing" long enough to have owned a KelTec .32 when they first came out then trading it up when KelTec came out with the 3AT. I later sold it when I convinced myself I would carry a 9mm or .38 or nothing at all.

A couple years ago I got a Ruger LCP because I realized how often I carried nothing at all.

A .38 in my jeans or jacket pocket? Yes. Better.
A 9mm or .45 IWB or OWB? Yes. Better.
No gun on me? No. A .380 is better.
 
Jim PHL said:
Been doing the "pocket gun thing" long enough to have owned a KelTec .32 when they first came out then trading it up when KelTec came out with the 3AT. I later sold it when I convinced myself I would carry a 9mm or .38 or nothing at all.

A couple years ago I got a Ruger LCP because I realized how often I carried nothing at all.

A .38 in my jeans or jacket pocket? Yes. Better.
A 9mm or .45 IWB or OWB? Yes. Better.
No gun on me? No. A .380 is better.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me ;)
 
Protected One said:
To all Bodyguard owners. You may want o consider getting a Pachmyer grip for your .380. Mine came yesterday ($15 incl shp on ebay) and it gives the grip a better size, making it more comfortable in the hand, and though I haven't shot with it yet I'm expecting improved accuracy.
Click to expand...

Pictures!!!! Does it add a lot of bulk?
 
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