Almost a Victory

[Cyrano]

Sometimes my stupidity amazes even myself: I intended to put this post here, but instead put it in the 1961-1980 forum.

At the HGCA show in Houston last weekend, I got a really strange revolver. It looked at first like one of the British Victorys, with smooth wood grips, 5 inch barrel, chambered for the 38/200 cartridge (38 S&W), "parkerized' finish (The factory letter says sand blasted blue). Serial number is S894433. With one exception, all the markings are S&W factory standard, with the 'Made in the USA in one line on the right side. The exception is the backstrap, which carries the stamping K.N.I.L.

Now K.N.I.L. is the abbreviation for the Dutch East Indies. I'd never even heard of a KNIL contract, let alone seen one of the revolvers, but the letter says this pistol was one of 10,000 ordered, shipped in lots of 1000, and left the factory in 1947. Indonesia gained its independence in 1952, I think, so these revolvers would have arrived at the height of the conflict between the Indonesian nationalists and the Dutch.

It has seen its share of hard times. The outside looks nice, but there is rust on the inside, particularly on the grip frame, and the internal parts have become black instead of polished or blued. Most of the inside was covered in a yellow powdery substance (Indonesian fungus?). The bore is excellent and lockup fairly tight. It goes to the range tomorrow.

Anhyone else have one of these things? And I like to accessorize my guns; does anyone know what is the proper issue holster?

 

[opoefc]

You scored a nice variation of the Victory Model. We all know of the Pre-Victory Models and then the WW2 Victory Models, but few are aware of the Post Victory Models, shipped to the Dutch, etc. These guns are very uncommon in the US. Post some pictures, please. Ed. #15

 

[DCWilson]

I too would like to see pictures. I just recently learned that S&W continued to manufacture .38/200 revolvers long after WW2, which surprised me. I was doing some impromptu reading (as opposed to targeted research) in SCSW a couple of days ago and it sank in for the first time that the company produced a Model 11 -- essentially a Model 10 in .38/200 instead of .38 Special.

I gather these guns were for foreign sale, and I presume that most of them were made under contract. At any rate, it's hard for me to imagine the company built a bunch on spec and put them in the vault against the day that someone from abroad might order a few.

 

[opoefc]

David, The production of the Model 11s was mainly because some Police agencies, here and overseas, in the early post war years allowed their personnel to only carry guns chambered for the .38S&W (.38/200) , as the .38 Special was considered too powerful, believe it or not, so to accomodate that need, S&W continued the .38S&W caliber and later called it a Model 11 when the Model name switch occured in 1957-8. Ed.

 

[Cyrano]

Opoefc; I can't post pix, but will be glad to e-mail them to someone who can (once I've had time to take the pix. However, unfortunately the yellow whatever disappeared with the first application of Hoppe's Elite.)

 

[Texas Star]

Opoefc; I can't post pix, but will be glad to e-mail them to someone who can (once I've had time to take the pix. However, unfortunately the yellow whatever disappeared with the first application of Hoppe's Elite.)

That was unfortunate?!

 

[Cyrano]

Shot it today. Shoots pretty small groups with my 175 gr handloads, nice trigger pull both SA and DA. Had some failures to fire until I tightened the strain screw all the way down.

Detail stripped it for cleaning. Boy, did it ever need it! Probably the first time it's been apart since the initial assembly at Springfield. Lots of minor rust. The trigger pivot pin came out with the trigger; I think that part is supposed to stay in the frame. The hammer pin is loose but won't come out; I'm going to let well enough alone on that one.

 

[ordnanceguy]

And I like to accessorize my guns; does anyone know what is the proper issue holster?

Cyrano:

Hard to say for certain. However, my guess would be the Pattern '37 equipment manufactured for the UK and Commonwealth Forces in WW2. After WW2 the Dutch Government, which had a close relationship to the UK, received a lot of military assistance from the UK. In my collection I have a photo taken in the 1950s of a Dutch soldier wearing P'37 web equipment but carrying a Browning/Inglis 9mm pistol in a P'37 web holster for the Inglis. The UK, of course, had hundreds of thousands of 5" .38-200 revolvers that were substantially similar to your KNIL example.

I would love to add the details of your factory letter to the Victory Model Database. Your revolver was already in the Database, so perhaps your seller had discussed it publicly before. The Database shows it as having shipped in May, 1947. Would you mind sending me a scan of the letter off-forum? While technically not a Victory the KNIL guns are of interest to Victory collectors.