amax "too good" for M&P 10?

[Jared in MT]

Finally getting around to buying bullets for this rifle.

Is the SMK, Amax or ELD bullets too good for the gas gun? Will I have just as good as results with Hornady Match that is considerably cheaper?

If matters, already free floated barrel, installed Geissle trigger and have nice vortex 4-12 installed. My range is 700 yds max.

Trying to limit buying multiple boxes of bullets...

 

[jdlii]

I don't have and M&P10 but, do have a DPMS Oracle LR. My rifle likes heavier bullers, SMK 165 Gr. BTHP Game Kings, 168 BTHP & 175 gr. BTHP match bullets. I recently acquired 178 gr. Amax bullets and can't wait to try them.

Hornady makes GREAT bullets. I have shot their match Amax bullets in other match rifles with outstanding results. The price of the Hornady bullets should in no way affect your decision and instead should be the reason you purchase them.

I would also like to suggest the Hornady .308 brass. For long range brass, I generally use Lapua but, my experience with the Hornady brass has changed my mind about what may be the premium brass available for that purpose.

Good luck and good shooting!!

 

[milzy]

I found mine shoots best with 168 Amax and Varget. Probably will make the switch to ELD soon, well when I run out of the Amax

 

[copemech]

No, they are not too good! Yet you may not find the best combo without some load development.
The powder charge will likely mean more of a difference in this class of bullet. Velocity and accuracy are two different things. And 1gr of powder can change things considerably. Run some ladder tests at 0.5gr intervals.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I use the Sierra 155 Palma bullet over 47 gr of Varget in match brass and Fed 210M primer. OAL to fit the mag. This is the max load for this powder/bullet combo. Out of my bolt gun (Savage 10BA-BAS) I get 1/8-1/4" at 100 and 5-8" at 1000 yards, out of my 18" 308 Windham, it is more like 3/8-1/2" at 100 and 4-6" at 700. I started Long Range shooting with Hornady 165 A-Max TAP (L.E Ammo) but a 155 Palma bullet shoots considerably flatter and a little less recoil. The A-max bullets and the NEW Tipped Match King bullets are both fantastic.

You cannot have good ammo without good brass! With a semi-auto, you will loose brass! The solution is to start with a large quantity of same lot brass of around 400-500. The best "cheap" source is once fired military match brass. Prep the whole batch at the same time. I then load a 200 round batch and replace lost brass until I reach 50 replacements. I switch to the next 200 and replace missing brass. The older brass has 10-15 loadings in it at this point and is loaded for the last time and used for shoots or positions that I cannot recover brass. I always keep my eye out for another batch of ammo or brass to have in reserve. I am very fortunate to have two 500 batches of ammo in reserve at this time.

Just so you know, Military Match M-118 ammo, has been loaded with FMJ 168 gr. bullets for a long time. Each 20 round box has the Lot # right on the front of it, and the 400 round ammo can has the lot number painted on the side. The ammo has often had the bullet pulled and a 168 Sierra MK seated over the military load. Often referred to a "Mexican Match", it still is not as good as Hornady's or Federal's Match loadings (But on an E-4's pay, you go with Issue ammo every time!)

Ivan

 

[lrrifleman]

Just so you know, Military Match M-118 ammo, has been loaded with FMJ 168 gr. bullets for a long time. Each 20 round box has the Lot # right on the front of it, and the 400 round ammo can has the lot number painted on the side. The ammo has often had the bullet pulled and a 168 Sierra MK seated over the military load. Often referred to a "Mexican Match", it still is not as good as Hornady's or Federal's Match loadings (But on an E-4's pay, you go with Issue ammo every time!)

Ivan

Ivan, I beg your pardon, I am not trying to be a nit picker. M118 was the early military match ammo for the 7.62 NATO, which was manufactured using the 173gr FMJBT M72 bullet that had been used in the manufacture of the 30M1 M72 match ammo. After years of the Sierra 168gr International HPBT being exchanged for the M72 bullet via "Mexican Match", the military developed the M852 7.62 NATO match round using the Sierra 168gr HPBT loaded at 2550 fps.

In reference to the original question, the SMK, Amax, or ELD are too good for your rifle, ONLY if you are not trying to squeeze the most accuracy out of your rifle as possible. It is my understanding that the Hornady Amax is in the process of being replaced by the ELD-M bullet. As a foot note, in speaking with a Hornady tech, not all Amax and ELD-M bullets are intended for magazine use. When I called with questions about the 75gr 0.224 Amax in 223 Remington, they recommend loading to a C.O.L. of 2.360", which is 0.010" longer than magazine length.

In order to get the best accuracy out of your rifle, you have to decide whether you want the accuracy to result from single loading your rifle, or magazine loading your rifle.

If you are looking for magazine feed accuracy, your best bet is to load up 5 shot batches of a variety of charges per bullet, and fire for groups at 100 or 200 yards. That is what I did for across the course matches with my M1A, since I had to maintain the ability to magazine feed my rifle.

If you are looking to develop maximum accuracy via single round loading, you need to measure your rifle's leade with a Stoney Point style C.O.L tool., then load as above and shoot for group. Once you discover a load that gives you the best groups, chronograph the load.

Once you discover the best load for your rifle, note the lot numbers for the powder, bullets, and primers. You may have to "tweak" your loads when component lots change.

Just a suggestion, since you are shooting a gas gun, consider using military match cases, since the web of these cases are heavier constructed to handle the forces exerted by the recoiling extractor.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Irriflman, you are right on the M-118 173 gr. That is what my 700 liked best. I had a 168 Ball/match round from Lake City that none of my rifles liked. I don't remember the M-number, but the Ohio NG rifle team used it in their M-14's with fair to good success. I had 3-400 round cans of it that went to guys with M1-A's and they did fine.

Ivan