Ammo for ar-15
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I would use FMJ bullets for what you are doing. I occasionally use HP's for hunting, but other than my 68gr Hornady BTHP bullets, I dont load any HP's for my rifle. FMJ's are good enough for the military and have served me well they work great for general plinking and wont break the bank so to answer your question, Yes I would use them for both!! 
I use 55 gr. FMJ (Federal XM193) and 62 gr. FMJ (Federal XM855) for range use and plinking. You can often find these at good prices in bulk.
In the old days, when I had time to handload, I always used Sierra 55 gr. FMJ BT or Hornady ballistic-tip bullets. I always stayed clear of Speer HPBT bullets, because the opening looked to me to be too large and I was always afraid they would snag on the AR-15's feed ramp (M4's and their extended feed ramps weren't around yet!) and wouldn't reliably feed. The ballistic-tip bullets cured that concern. But that was 20 years ago, when I had "free time"!!!!
For home defense, give the 75 gr. (OTM bullet) Hornady TAP FPD load a look...
Good luck and have fun!
In the old days, when I had time to handload, I always used Sierra 55 gr. FMJ BT or Hornady ballistic-tip bullets. I always stayed clear of Speer HPBT bullets, because the opening looked to me to be too large and I was always afraid they would snag on the AR-15's feed ramp (M4's and their extended feed ramps weren't around yet!) and wouldn't reliably feed. The ballistic-tip bullets cured that concern. But that was 20 years ago, when I had "free time"!!!!
For home defense, give the 75 gr. (OTM bullet) Hornady TAP FPD load a look...
Good luck and have fun!
I would use FMJ bullets for what you are doing. I occasionally use HP's for hunting, but other than my 68gr Hornady BTHP bullets, I dont load any HP's for my rifle. FMJ's are good enough for the military and have served me well they work great for general plinking and wont break the bank so to answer your question, Yes I would use them for both!!
The military uses FMJ because of an international agreement to do so. It's because FMJ are less 'nasty' when it comes to inflicting wounds. They're trying to make war 'nice', or perhaps less messy.
So i'd never use FMJ for self protection or defense. It makes no sense to do so - because you want to inflict damage, not just clean thru and thrus.
Some, if not most, guns shoot HPs more accurately because the bullet is 'tail heavy' due to the hollow point. Most rifle bullets now have polymer fillers in there to aid in ballistic coeeficcient (needed in long range shooting) and to keep the HP from filling up (with say, clothing bits) and not opening up in the target.
Maddmax
US Veteran
You have the second part right. But,It's the Geneva Convention that restricks hollow points and sets the rules of war for how WE treat POW's.
MichiganScott
Member
My favorite general use bullet is the Sierra 53gr. HPBT Matchking. Handloads run about $0.35ea if everything is bought in bulk. If I don't have time to reload, I shoot Federal XM193 or XM855, currently at about $0.40ea.
Self defense would depend on whether you are talking inside or out, neighbors or not, fellow family members or not, etc. I don't have neighbors, live in the country, and the kids are grown. I have some 60gr. Nosler Partitions loaded up for deer if I ever choose to use an AR for self defense, but I wouldn't argue if you chose a 55gr. FMJ or 75-77gr. OTM.
Self defense would depend on whether you are talking inside or out, neighbors or not, fellow family members or not, etc. I don't have neighbors, live in the country, and the kids are grown. I have some 60gr. Nosler Partitions loaded up for deer if I ever choose to use an AR for self defense, but I wouldn't argue if you chose a 55gr. FMJ or 75-77gr. OTM.
storeyteller
Member
Not a fan of the FMJ's. Got no need to shoot thru cars.
some reading > Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
Home/self defense inside the home:
I keep some Extreme around for self/home defense (for handgun the > Fangface and for the rifle the > High Velocity Tactical . I've seen a few people that got hit with this ammo. It will definately put a stop to them with impacts anywhere on the body.
and of course don't forget the 12 ga shotgun too with some good old 00 buck
general purpose loads for a wide range of self and home defense > blind loads like 5.56 mm Federal 62 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw
Hornady TAP
General target and use:
Rifle > 55 or 62 grain 5.56
Handgun self defense:
Fangface
Zombie stoppers - Rifle - self/home defense:
High Velocity Tactical
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Home/self defense inside the home:
I keep some Extreme around for self/home defense (for handgun the > Fangface and for the rifle the > High Velocity Tactical . I've seen a few people that got hit with this ammo. It will definately put a stop to them with impacts anywhere on the body.
and of course don't forget the 12 ga shotgun too with some good old 00 buck
general purpose loads for a wide range of self and home defense > blind loads like 5.56 mm Federal 62 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw
Hornady TAP
General target and use:
Rifle > 55 or 62 grain 5.56
Handgun self defense:
Fangface
Zombie stoppers - Rifle - self/home defense:
High Velocity Tactical
**************************************
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The "geneva convention" does not proscribe the type of ammo, but it does not matter because we did not sign them. The Hauge "peace" convention says that you may not use ammo that causes "unnecessary" injury/pain See hauge convention 1907, 1947. Jag attorneys stated in 1985 that OTM ammo was legal. Snipers and others are /were using otm/"HP" ammo in iraq and elsewhere. FMC/FMJ is a copper jacketed bullet without exposed lead tip and does not refer to a steel jacket, steel core. I use Hornady TAP 75 gr OTM for home defense, it will probably open and not penetrate as far as a FMJ might ( at least it sounds like a good principle) . Something to remember: If you put a FMJ through a soldier and do not kill him, it may require 4 guys and a medic to evacuate him, therefore you have taken 6 guys out of the fight with one shot. This strategy was used effectively in viet nam. Be Safe,
MPDC
Member
I like this for non range, defensive purposes. The weight is fine even for 1/9 bbl.s at close, home defense range.
This is .223 Hornady TAP FPD 75gr. Hollow Point Ammo. Hornady ammunition is the brand of choice for tactical teams, snipers and police officers throughout the world because it performs flawlessly. Now you can have the same reliable ammunition technology for your personal defense needs. Hornady’s new family of TAP™ For Personal Defense (TAP FPD™) ammo is superior tactical ammunition designed specifically for protection from deadly threats. TAP FPD™ is engineered to deliver reliable and consistent performance every single time. This ammo comes packed in 20rd. boxes.
This is .223 Hornady TAP FPD 75gr. Hollow Point Ammo. Hornady ammunition is the brand of choice for tactical teams, snipers and police officers throughout the world because it performs flawlessly. Now you can have the same reliable ammunition technology for your personal defense needs. Hornady’s new family of TAP™ For Personal Defense (TAP FPD™) ammo is superior tactical ammunition designed specifically for protection from deadly threats. TAP FPD™ is engineered to deliver reliable and consistent performance every single time. This ammo comes packed in 20rd. boxes.
the question was what could he use for both. In my case I use a 45acp for home defense loaded with "Critical Defense" Winnie loads using the Hornady XTP bullet. It is one big ol fat HP. I also use a 16gauge shotgun with slugs but like others in the forum I do not have to worry about my neighbors, unless I happen to get broken into by an 89 year old Man LOL
MPDC
Member
OEO, I don't disagree given the one bullet limitation. I do, however, think that just as I practice with FMJ rounds in my handguns, both the handguns AND my AR are given an advantage by using specific, engineered loads for defensive purposes. Easy to load a few mags with optimized defensive rounds and still plink with M or XM193.
Likewise, there are rounds optimized for precision, match competition. I see no reason in civilian use to "standardize" on a single load. Heck, I have different SD rounds for my different pistol bbl. lengths.
Why not use the best available for so important a purpose as SD?
JMHO, maybe seen differently with legitimate reasons by others.
Likewise, there are rounds optimized for precision, match competition. I see no reason in civilian use to "standardize" on a single load. Heck, I have different SD rounds for my different pistol bbl. lengths.
Why not use the best available for so important a purpose as SD?
JMHO, maybe seen differently with legitimate reasons by others.
crofoot629
Absent Comrade
There is a lot of bad info posted in this thread.
55 grn FMJ (Ball), (M193) will not over penetrate or shoot through cars !!!
62 grn M855 might very well though.
55 grn M193 is very effective terminally. M855 not so much under most home defense situations.
55 grn 5.56 (M193) will penetrate less in common building materials than most self defense handgun rounds yet is extremely lethal on human targets.
Wideners has PPU Privi M193 for sale at a very reasonable cost and is the only true Mil Spec currently available now that the Izzy IMI M193 dried up.
Federal XM193 and Winchester Q3131 would be your next best choices for M193.
Now there are many designer rounds in the $1 Dollar per round cost range that are excellent choices BUT most all are specifically designed to penetrate barriers (bonded bullets primarily). These rounds were developed out of LE's perceived need to penetrate auto glass and car body's. Great when shooting at bad guys in cars but suck when shooting at bad guys in dwellings in urban environments.
M193 is great for home and personal defense and the best bang for your buck.
All sent from my phone as best I could.
Emory
55 grn FMJ (Ball), (M193) will not over penetrate or shoot through cars !!!
62 grn M855 might very well though.
55 grn M193 is very effective terminally. M855 not so much under most home defense situations.
55 grn 5.56 (M193) will penetrate less in common building materials than most self defense handgun rounds yet is extremely lethal on human targets.
Wideners has PPU Privi M193 for sale at a very reasonable cost and is the only true Mil Spec currently available now that the Izzy IMI M193 dried up.
Federal XM193 and Winchester Q3131 would be your next best choices for M193.
Now there are many designer rounds in the $1 Dollar per round cost range that are excellent choices BUT most all are specifically designed to penetrate barriers (bonded bullets primarily). These rounds were developed out of LE's perceived need to penetrate auto glass and car body's. Great when shooting at bad guys in cars but suck when shooting at bad guys in dwellings in urban environments.
M193 is great for home and personal defense and the best bang for your buck.
All sent from my phone as best I could.
Emory
MPDC I wholeheartedly agree, I have a lot of different ammo types and weights for everyone of my firearms. The way he asked the question I made an assumption that as I have gone along, I can see my misinterpretation. I probably should have said that I would use either one, I do load both types for all my rifles except my 30-30 and that is just because I havent found a HP bullet that is recommended for use in a tubular magazine.
crofoot629
Absent Comrade
With 55 grn FMJ you will not be shooting through cars and it penetrates less in sheet rock and other common building materials less than 9mm 147 grn JHP's.
Emory
RKBAGUY
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As stated in other posts, there is no single definitive answer to this question. It largely depends on your barrel length, intended use, probable defensive scenarios, what sort of optic (if any) you use, and other variables.
The ammo FAQ is an excellent reference. I load Federal Fusion (a bonded round) for its intermediate barrier penetration capabilities, superior terminal ballistics both with and without a barrier, and the 62 grain weight which corresponds to the BDC in my ACOG.
There are lots of good choices far better than milspec ammo, for the reasons previously mentioned. Take advantage of the FAQ and the fact that we civvies don't need to observe military conventions.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
The ammo FAQ is an excellent reference. I load Federal Fusion (a bonded round) for its intermediate barrier penetration capabilities, superior terminal ballistics both with and without a barrier, and the 62 grain weight which corresponds to the BDC in my ACOG.
There are lots of good choices far better than milspec ammo, for the reasons previously mentioned. Take advantage of the FAQ and the fact that we civvies don't need to observe military conventions.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
rojodiablo
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But in reality, there are 2 things to consider: Concealment and cover. Concealment gives little to no protection. But it CAN deliver maginal cover- whereas cover is usually good cover.
Having been in a position to really A: Need cover, and B: defend agaainst a person firing from cover/ concealment, I will say that you can always shoot thru a target with extra firepower or penetration. But if you do not have enough power and penetration?? You are in a situation where you will not want to be.
For a small bore rifle, I would rather have the extra 'stick' of a slightly heavier projectile and hardier construction. With say a 30-06?? You will go clean thru a 12" TREE with a Remington Core Lokt or Nosler partition. Less need for a FMJ because of the power delivered.
A FMJ 223 in a 62-75gr. won't get there, no way, no how.
But, in the case of say being faced with a fight and a person is using a car as cover?? a FMJ 223 has a good chance of delivering thru the multiple layers of sheetmetal. A hunting round WILL start to expand, which will change trajectories, weight, and penetration immediately. It might not put the rounds where they are desperately needed.
So, this being said- I'd rather go with a very solid construction bullet, 'cause the last time I was shot at, every bullet counted.
And, so you know- a 9mm pistol with good ammo will penetrate a car door, trunk, seat, windows, gas tank..... and yet you might not hit the perp. Even when you send 15 rounds at him. We found that bullets went every which direction, except for straight once they were hitting even thin barriers.
batmann
Member
While I consider my AR as a SD arm it is not my first choice that being my 12 GA Browning BPS 'Tactical'.
I have used HP in both 55 GR and 62 GR and IMHO, they both have much too much penetration for most SD situations.
Oneyeopn-----You mentioned you don't use HP's in your .30-30, but have you tried Hornady's Leverevolution? Pretty good ballistics and safe for tubular mags. They are about all is use in my Winchester 94 for Deer anymore.
I have used HP in both 55 GR and 62 GR and IMHO, they both have much too much penetration for most SD situations.
Oneyeopn-----You mentioned you don't use HP's in your .30-30, but have you tried Hornady's Leverevolution? Pretty good ballistics and safe for tubular mags. They are about all is use in my Winchester 94 for Deer anymore.
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storeyteller
Member
55gr Wolf FMJ's drill nice, clean holes through 1/4" steel at 200yds. I know this, cause I've done this. I will admit, I have not attempted to shoot through a car with it....yet, but it goes through that steel plate like **** through a goose.
BTW one of my buds shot clean through his chrony (very funny!) with a 50gr Z-max bullet last week! 3 layers of sheet metal and some electronics, much like a car door...and with a varmit tip (fragmenting) bullet, not a FMJ.
arizona98tj
US Veteran
You're saying you use soft point bullets so they don't go through the cars? Why would you be shooting at cars?
