ammo questions for carry revolver

skyraider

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Finally found the carry gun I've been looking for: 3" Model 10-5
link to thread on the gun here http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/275465-new-me-10-5-3-a.html

I would appreciate some input on .38 spc self defense ammo for a 3" barrel revolver. It is probably a long enough barrel to not need the ammo specially designed for snubbies (lower velocity stuff), but I don't know that for sure.

Thanks in advance.

Paul Moore
 
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There are generally two schools of thought. The $.50 per round crowd and the $1.00 per round crowd.

Remington SJHP in 125 grain at $20 per 50 seems adequate. But I do "roll my own" Golden Sabres in 158 grain for about half that.
 
It is probably a long enough barrel to not need the ammo specially designed for snubbies (lower velocity stuff),

The short barrel ammo by Speer is actually higher velocity to get assured expansion and a 3" barrel is considered a "short barrel" as the standard revolver service barrel length is 4" or greater.

There's lots of good ammo out there now, personally I've switched to the Speer 135gr GD short barrel bullets as the tests I've watched on youtube and the accuracy I've got out of my guns have sold me on them. My second choice is the Remington Golden Sabers for the same reasons. That loss of 1" of barrel generally translates into 50 to 75 FPS less than the advertised 4" velocity depending upon how fast your individual handgun shoots.

Here are some stats based on actual shootings to give you an idea of relative effectiveness of different ammo. Don't think of these as a Las Vegas type "odds".

38 Special +P Stopping Power

Here is some youtube ammo tests for the .38 spl by tnoutdoors9, a poster that generally performs a good evaluation though sometimes his bias and opinions slip through.

tnoutdoors9 .38 special - YouTube
 
Thanks for "arming me" with some great information. This will also help my wife. Her carry gun is a Model 36 snubbie. I think I'll try a couple of different brands and see what I like the best.

On a sidenote...as I learn about firearms from different people, I'm discovering something interesting. The people I meet who are the most knowledgeable, humble and respectful tend to still carry revolvers! I throw in the humble because I've met quite a few braggards who are full of horse manure. I tend to discount everything they say. A friend of mine owns a gun store, served in the Military for roughly 20 years and grew up in a family who imported and manufactured firearms. Just today I found out that he carries a S&W Model 66.

Many Thanks for your help,

Paul Moore
 
For a 3" K frame I would carry the ammo that's most accurate in that revolver. With current bullet technology and all the new powders on the market most, if not all current factory ammo is very good at what it was made to do. If that's so, and I think it is, it comes down to accuracy and hitting what you aim at because the best bullet in the world will do you no good without good hits.

I like the old time tested FBI Load is a 3" and longer barrel .38 Special. If you want something more modern, nothing wrong with Speer Gold Dot ammo. I carry both in different revolvers. Also, nothing wrong with the 135gr Speer Gold Dot short barrel ammo in a 3" K frame if that ends up being accurate.
 
I much prefer lead bullets in my revolvers because, if desired, they may be fired at a higher velocity than any jacketed bullet. The difference is friction, the jacketed bullet creates more and will reach maximum pressure before a lead bullet does.
For factory-made defense loads, in my 2, 4 or 6" .38 Special barrels, I carry the Remington 158 gr. lead semiwadcutter hollowpoint +P. From what I've read and seen on the net, in tests that seem to be impartial, it's more prone to expand well from 2" barrels.

I'm one of those who also carries my own reloads. I don't believe that a prosecutor will blast me for carrying "factory standard" reloads as long as the shooting circumstances were lawful.
"Factory standard" deserves an explanation: no multiple-projectile loads, no mercury-tipped bullets, no exploding bullets, or other nonsense. My reloads basically duplicate or slightly excell what's available over the counter.
I use the Hornady 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint over a near-maximum charge of Unique, W231, HP-38, Bullseye or similar powders. I've worked up these loads individually in my guns: one load for the 2", and another for the 4 and 6" barrels.

A trick to gain a little extra velocity and discourage leading:
The Hornady and Speer dry lubricants are okay for standard velocity, but Lee Liquid Alox works better once you get past 850 fps or so.
So, I tumble-lube the Hornady LSWCHP bullets in Lee Liquid Alox and stand them base down on a sheet of wax paper. Then I allow them to dry indoors for a couple of days.
It probably doesn't make a difference in expansion performance, but I use a tiny screwdriver to clear any lubricant from the hollow point. This is all rather tedious -- tumble-lubing, drying and clearing the hollow point -- but then, I don't usually assemble more than about 100 cartridges at a time.

For practice, I use the Hornady or Speer 158 gr. roundnosed bullet over a slightly reduced powder charge. These bullets don't get the Lee Liquid Alox treatment, but are loaded as-is.
The roundnosed bullets are not popular and are often on sale. The savings can be significant.
Last spring, at a gun show, I picked up 500 Hornady 158 gr. RNL for $25 from a private seller. Online, you can often find good deals on roundnosed Speer or Hornady bullets.
I only use them for practice against paper targets, and occasional plinking. Roundnosed bullets are also very accurate. My S&W Model 10-5, made in 1964, will cluster five bullets into a silver dollar all day long, at 25 yards from a benchrest.
If I miss the bullseye or can, it's my fault.
Lead bullets are kinder to the gun, too. Numerous studies show that a well-made .38 Special revolver can shoot 100,000 lead bullets at standard velocity without any debilitating wear.
Conversely, jacketed bullets may cause significant wear by 10,000 rounds.
Frankly, I don't see much need for jacketed bullets in the .38 Special, unless you're using the 110-125 gr. bullet against varmints.
There are always screams about leading, but this is most often the fault of the individual revolver: oversized chamber mouths, tight bore, pitted bore, undersized bullet, insufficient lubricant, bad lubricant (the rock-hard lubricants are particular offenders; the best lubricant stil remains an Alox2138/Beeswax mix), poor alignment of cylinder and barrel, insufficient forcing cone, etc.
In a well-made .38 with proper dimensions, the lead bullet will do all you need -- and do it at higher velocity if desired.
 
I'm guessing that the revolver carriers that you've learned to trust are older guys, much like me. I learned to shoot in LEO recruit school in 1968 and used a revolver in the line of duty to defend myself during my career. They just work, and in retirement it is all I need. I'm not looking for trouble, learned to mind my own business and don't go anywhere dangerous anymore.
 
Taking it that your carring a snub nose and using maximum loads I have come up with this data out of my mod. 49.

110Jhp non+p 872fps with186 ft/lbs Eg Recoil 3.41 ft/lbs
a load at 954fps 222 Eg with 3.85 Recoil and my maximum
Alliant Unique load per "Cor-Bon" at 996fps 242 Eg R 4.56.

Some use the 110 Jhp for some reason or another but I do not like the minimum penetration of most of the bullets, all copper excluded,since I never tried those.

125 Jhp "Nyclad" 830fps is ok with the real thing but even my
speer GDot would not start to open up on water jugs at this low velosity.
I would look at 903fps with 224 ft/lb Eg and 4.25 ft/lbs of recoil which matches the Remington home defence load for a SD load and I can match this in my gun with 4.8grs of RedDot,for practice. I have not tested this load for expansion as yet but hope an extra 73fps would work.

The 135 GDot at a true 660 has 4.78 ft/lbs of recoil in my gun
and only the FBI is higher with the 158 at 851fps bucking at 5.86 pounds of RECOIL !!

Some say the heck with it and load a 148 WC.

Pick your poision...............
 
The "best" defensive ammo for your Model 10 is essentially what you can shoot the most accurately with. :)

To echo what others have stated, you might want to give Reminton's 158 gr. LHP or Speer's 135 gr. Gold Dot some consideration. Alternately, there's Winchester's 130 gr. PDX Bonded offering. All three are loaded to +P velocities, and while felt recoil is admittedly subjective, I have found from my own personal experience that the Remington LHP is a peach to shoot from K-frames with 3" or longer barrels. From my Chief's Special, both the Remington and Speer are snappy but not terribly unmanagable with the stock grip panels. Unfortunately, I have no experience with the Winchester PDX, so I can't really say much about it.

If +P rounds aren't your thing, there are plenty of standard velocity offerings as well that have been proven to work, but the aforementioned three rounds are widely considered the best to be had in .38 Special.
 
Thanks so much for all the great "ammo info". This is good food for thought. The next time I go to the range (most likely next week) I will take a couple of different boxes of ammo designed for short barrels and see what this gun likes.
Many Thanks to all of you,

Paul Moore
 
The sights on the "snubby" Smith and Wesson .38's are regulated for a 158-grain bullet.
Not that you'll likely be using the sights in a defensive shooting situation.

When I carry a snubby revolver (which isn't very often nowadays) I carry a 158-grain +P semi-wadcutter, and enough extra ammo to reload once.

If you need more ammo than that, you're doing it wrong.

MPDammopouch.jpg
 
This generally duplicates the "FBI load" for .38 SPL.
Not sure why they don't call it a "plus P" except maybe to not scare the "I don't want to hurt my gun" crowd.

BuffaloBoreFBIload.jpg


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This also generally duplicates the "FBI load" for .38 SPL.
Not sure why they call it a "plus P" except that maybe they want people to think that you can vaporize your opponent if the box is thusly marked.

imagesqtbnANd9GcR2U8pxO6zd4rRs8Jqt3.jpg
 
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Thanks so much for all the great "ammo info". This is good food for thought. The next time I go to the range (most likely next week) I will take a couple of different boxes of ammo designed for short barrels and see what this gun likes.
Many Thanks to all of you,

Paul Moore
 
- Speer Gold Dot 135 grain Short Barrel .38 Special +P
- Cor Bon DPX 110 grain .38 Special +P
- Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWHC .38 Special standard pressure

Try all three and find the happy medium between what you and your gun like the most, get a few boxes of it and you should be fine.

Honorable mention:
- Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain .38 Special, standard pressure or +P; it's developing a good reputation.
- Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWHC .38 Special +P; a boomer but should be manageable in a K-frame
- Any of the big three's (Remington, Winchester, Federal) version of the FBI load, though it's probably loaded lighter now than in its heyday.
 
No problem, and I'm glad you found the info helpful. Please let us know how your M-10 shoots with the loads you've chosen.
 
No problem, and I'm glad you found the info helpful. Please let us know how your M-10 shoots with the loads you've chosen.


Will do, and you'll get a range report on my wife's 36 snubbie, as well.
 
I carry target wadcutters in my Model 60. Accurate, controlable and will put any normal person down. First criteria is bullet placement + no jerko lawyer can accuse you of looking for trouble and using exotic ammo. re:Massad Ayoob. Googe him if you don't know who that is.
 
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