Ammo Scalpers

[reddogs]

Couple of guy's here got on the news about a year ago for buying up hand sanitizer,wipes and selling online for crazy amounts.Think they ended up saying they gave rest to charity.People weren't happy with them news people trying to talk to them didn't go good for them.Don't know if they broke any laws but nobody tried to hurt their feelings calling them capitalists or defended them calling them capitalist.Don't know whole story i was busy hunting toilet paper back then.

 

[germansheperd]

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Ammunition is a volatile commodity like anything else. The markets don't care. You think everyone who owns stock in Ford has an F150 in their driveway? When there is money to be made due to demand spikes, people will flock to it. It doesn't matter if it is ammunition or stock in a company. Some will make a lot of money and others will get burned when the price finds its new equilibrium. This has been going on forever. There has never been any "morality" in markets. It's just convenient to blame the other side as "profiteers" when you're on the losing end of a trade.

I just LOL'd at the "You are here".

 

[germansheperd]

OK, so price adjustment for 30 years of inflation (guns), and for 30 years of inflation AND ongoing investment (homes) are the same thing as cleaning out the ammo shelves today (so others don't get any) so you can sell it to other gun owners tomorrow for a 400% profit are the exact same thing. Sure they are
There is a reason why PROFITEERING and GOUGING and SCALPING have been defined words in the English dictionary for decades if not centuries.

Says you it's different but its the same. Maybe the ammo scalper is smarter in the fact that he or she turns their profit quicker?
Once again no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. Marketing 101 what the market will bear.
I have never been that greedy for a 400% profit. I try to help others and keep it at a minuscule 50-75% margin unlike the 400-500% profiteers and gougers here selling handguns.

 

[1BadSmith]

Took my wife and son to a hockey last sat. night. Its like for pre college or something, (i dont follow any sort of sports, so dont know the terminology) anyhow, got upstairs to our seats, and little man wanted a cheeseburger. I wanted a beer. His cheeseburger was $7 and half the size of a $1 one at mcdonalds. My 16 oz tap beer (bud light) was $10. Is that fair? 16 oz tap beer at my local bar is $3. Don't see government agencies trying to shut them down. Attendance was 2500, man did they sell alot of beer!! My choice to spend $17 on something i could have got elsewhere for $4. Damn beer and cheeseburger scalpers!! Ridiculous.

 

[germansheperd]

Took my wife and son to a hockey last sat. night. Its like for pre college or something, (i dont follow any sort of sports, so dont know the terminology) anyhow, got upstairs to our seats, and little man wanted a cheeseburger. I wanted a beer. His cheeseburger was $7 and half the size of a $1 one at mcdonalds. My 16 oz tap beer (bud light) was $10. Is that fair? 16 oz tap beer at my local bar is $3. Don't see government agencies trying to shut them down. Attendance was 2500, man did they sell alot of beer!! My choice to spend $17 on something i could have got elsewhere for $4. Damn beer and cheeseburger scalpers!! Ridiculous.

But, but, but thats ok because its not ammunition or MY hobby lol!

 

[1BadSmith]

D'oh, my bad!! What was I thinking? Lol.

 

[Bumpus13]

I'm seeing a lot of posts from accounts like that here and on other gun forums, and SURPRISE they all seem to be folks defending scalping ammo.

Makes you wonder how many of them are just profiteers who really have little or no interest in guns - they just pop up on the boards whenever there is a shortage. The timing sure looks suspicious since the last shortage was right about 8 years ago.

They are in the same category as the folks at CTD in my book.

Boo hoo. I'm sure those with differing opinions from you will lose sleep over your opinion.


Some people seriously don't seem to understand how the internet works. LOL

 

[Gary M]

I am not as much defending people buying low and selling high, which is what any of us would do whether guns, ammo, stocks, real estate, or what have you, as I am defending a free market system.

Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but that is the inherent risk and reward of a capitalistic system, or as close to it as the government allows us to have.

While I have seen some complaining about flippers and gougers, what alternatives are you recommending? Price controls? Regulated transactions? Government allocation based on need?

All of those have been tried in the past and have failed miserably, typically resulting in hyper inflation and even more severe shortages than we see in the current ammo market. How much do you think a round, much less a box, of ammo goes for in Venezuela if you can find the black market seller that has it?

I was at a local gun show last weekend and there was no apparent shortage of ammunition from .22LR to .50 BMG and everything in between. These were not stand in line for the truck sellers but larger vendors that I see at every gun show and their prices were in line with what many of those shelf clearers being ridiculed here charge.

So spare me your moral outrage because your chosen hobby now cost a few bucks more or those that finally pulled their heads out of... the sand are paying more for their procrastination.

 

[geo57]

I am not as much defending people buying low and selling high, which is what any of us would do whether guns, ammo, stocks, real estate, or what have you, as I am defending a free market system.

Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but that is the inherent risk and reward of a capitalistic system, or as close to it as the government allows us to have.

While I have seen some complaining about flippers and gougers, what alternatives are you recommending? Price controls? Regulated transactions? Government allocation based on need?

All of those have been tried in the past and have failed miserably, typically resulting in hyper inflation and even more severe shortages than we see in the current ammo market. How much do you think a round, much less a box, of ammo goes for in Venezuela if you can find the black market seller that has it?

I was at a local gun show last weekend and there was no apparent shortage of ammunition from .22LR to .50 BMG and everything in between. These were not stand in line for the truck sellers but larger vendors that I see at every gun show and their prices were in line with what many of those shelf clearers being ridiculed here charge.

So spare me your moral outrage because your chosen hobby now cost a few bucks more or those that finally pulled their heads out of... the sand are paying more for their procrastination.

Brilliantly stated. Thank You.

 

[Gary M]

One of the reason I am one of those low post members is that in most other areas of this board I don't have a lot to add to the discussion that has not already been said or that I can share qualified knowledge let alone any degree of expertise.

I have 6 S&W handguns (2 64-3, 2 late 3rd gen 6906 and 2 late model BG .380 (2 is one and 1 is none) and 1 long gun (Sport II), none of which are particularly noteworthy and certainly not what anyone would consider collectible. While I like looking when people post pics, I don't feel I have to pad my post count by posting every time someone shares their most recent acquisition, comment that it was a good or bad deal, tell them how I did better or worse, advise them that they should or should not shoot a LNIB Model XX revolver, or feel qualified to provide technical advise on things I know little to nothing about.

My guns are tools acquired to perform functions or fill needs as I, and I alone see them. I am cheap so the idea of paying high 3 low 4 figure prices for 1, 3, 5, or 20 of this or that anything just to sit around or pull out to look at occasionally isn't my particular idea of financial security and whether it is or isn't for others, or their motivation is not for me to be concerned over. Mine go boom when I want and hit relatively close to where I want, so that is good enough for me.

So if someone, as one poster did, has a question about a 1980's era 64-3 DAO police turn in similar to mine, I may have something to say. If the discussion is relative merits, cost, finishes of a nickel, stainless, or blue .44 mag, no clue. M&P 1.0 vs 2.0? don't have one and likely never will.
Trigger pull on my BG? Little long and stiff, but I know it like a 2 stage trigger, where and when it will break and don't have to worry if I pass gas with my finger on the trigger that it will go off, but not a lot of posts about them in that section.

But I still have more than enough cheap ammo to keep them all running, don't have to buy more at current prices, and don't care that others chose or think differently.

 

[Gary M]

No ammo at Wal-Mart for me this morning but went across the street to Dunhams and picked these up at 9:05 this morning.

Flint Dunhams this afternoon...
150gr / 170gr 30-06 Remington CoreLokt - $25.99 / 20 10-12 boxes on shelf
.300 Win Mag 8-10 boxes
.220 swift 6-10 boxes
.17 whatever .17 is maybe 20 boxes
12 gauge Pheasant (Rem) 15.99/25 30-40 boxes
12 gauge other (3 1/2, 3 turkey, some slugs) maybe 40 total
.300 Blackout a bunch
Some other miscellaneous stuff I don't shoot either.

Only priced the 30-06 because I shoot it, but not at that price when I have ~25 boxes at $0.40-$0.60 cpr after rebate and about 1K Lake City M2 Ball surplus and the 12 gauge since it used to be 8.99 and on sale for 6.99 almost every week.

No handgun ammo, some Pyrodex and 777 pellets.

Some handguns, a few rifles and a bunch of AR style scary black shotguns at normal (for them) prices.

I must not be much of a scalper or gouger since I walked on by and didn't even think about buying anything.

 

[ElectroMotive]

Sorry, but I decide when I stop - you don't get to silence people because they disagree. This board isn't part of the cancel culture.

Nobody is trying to silence you. The suggestion for you to stop was made because you are destroying any credibility you may have, or think you may have, on this board. Nobody said this board was cancel culture, though the staff here have removed posts condemning a previous poster's comments about online ammo sales.

Let me clarify since a lot of what I said apparently went over your head.

My question about the philosophy of "training with what you carry" is in regards to a topic with a long history on this forum. It wasn't a direct reference to anything the other poster said. It was a reference to a universally accepted principle of self defensive carry. Again, if you read what I said I specifically referred to it as a PRINCIPLE. If you don't know what that word means in this context, I suggest you look it up. Obviously it is a principle that you appear to be unfamiliar with.

I am going to quote you verbatim

How's that fit with the "train with what you carry" philosophy? Do you not believe in that principle, or are you going to carry a BB gun for self defense?

Obviously most normal people arent going to train with what they carry. Hell, federal LEAs arent practicing solely with JHPs anymore.

But direct to the point, the comment you responded to was strictly about "Practice is just trigger pull and sight alignment and a BB gun will do that just as good as a center fire gun and a lot cheaper."

While I do not agree with the poster that BB or airsoft guns are "just as good as a centerfire", I do believe they have merit.

The rhetorical question that followed my statement about "training with the gun you are going to use for self defense" is a reference to the fact that training with a BB gun only fits with that principle IF you plan to use a BB gun for self defense. Obviously no one does - that is what made the question rhetorical. It amazes me that something so simple has to be so exhaustively explained for you to "get" it, but there it is.

You can continue on, blithering about about about how doing basic trigger manipulation, sight alignment , and even overall manipulation of a weapon can be done with a BB gun or airsoft. Using a BB gun or airsoft isnt exclusive to someone carrying said weapons for defensive purposes. To think otherwise is the spiel of someone so misinformed, uninformed, and deluded on the subject of training. It saddens me that this has to rehashed to an unhealthy level for you.

The whole theme of what I have been TRYING to get you to understand is that the 8 million new gun owners in this country need to put a significant number of rounds downrange in order to become proficient with their new gun. Especially since the vast majority of them bought their first gun SPECIFICALLY for self defense, because they are concerned about what has been going on across the country. NOT getting that practice means they aren't really prepared and maybe even unsafe. Practicing with a BB gun will improve some fundamentals of marksmanship, but it hardly prepares a person for self defense with a real gun. For that purpose THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR LIVE FIRE.

Nobody is saying there is a SUBSTITUTE FOR LIVE FIRE. What we're saying is you can get certain things done with a BB or airsoft replica of the pistol you choose to carry. Good work can be done with these devices. Are they perfect? Nope. But nobody ever said they are or were. To quote a flash-in-the-pan Youtube personality, "...but it helps". Thats it. They help.

These statements are generally universally accepted by anyone who knows which end of the gun a bullet comes out of. Not sure why you have such an issue with what I have been trying to say.

The only one lacking any comprehension on the subject is you. You are blithering on as if you're an expert on training and tactics, and as if you are somehow the moral beacon in the sea of ammunition inequity. You arent any of those, and I feel like that's been readily established here.

The thing that started the whole discussion is my statement that with the current price of ammo, many new gun owners cannot afford the ammo for the amount of practice and training they need to become proficient. I believe the "scalpers" or "profiteers" or whatever you want to call them are largely responsible for that fact. If that hits too close to home for you, oh well...

Supply and demand. Low supply and high demand drive the prices, not scalpers or profiteers. There are far more facets to this issue than people who hit up the local big box store every morning for a few boxes of ammo to possibly flip. There is a pandemic that hampered supply chains (which still havent caught up). One of the major ammunition suppliers ceasing ops altogether for financial reasons, getting sold at auction, and only recently restarting ops under a new corporate entity. Then you can bring in the estimated 8M new shooters, and use the conservative 100/per new shooter, thats 80M rounds of ammo that went to new shooters. You, me, we are dealing with a literal perfect storm in this ammo crunch.

BTW I know all about "realistic" airsofts. I have one with the recoiling action you talk about. I'm attaching a couple of photos of it below. It is a full-size replica of a Sig P226 that uses green gas. It weighs about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as the real thing, and the slide reciprocates "just like the real thing" - except that it is nothing like shooting the real thing. The slide is the part that makes it so much lighter than a real gun - it has to be lighter for the gas pressure to make it reciprocate. This one - even being full size - has less recoil than even a 22LR or 25ACP. Plus the trigger has WAY less resistance than a real DA trigger.

So I'm sorry, but I am not convinced that practicing with one of these is sufficient preparation for self defense. Is the trigger and sight alignment practice better than no practice at all? Sure. Is it "realistic" practice/preparation - not even close.

Again.... Nobody is saying it has to be on par with a centerfire counterpart. The issue is lack of ammo means no training of anykind, whereas a BB gun or airsoft provides some form of training. It doesnt matter how light the BB gun or airsoft gun is. It doesnt matter how light the recoil is. It doesnt even matter what the trigger is like. Doing SOMETHING is better than NOTHING. Sitting at home digging splinters out of your dumper while pining for ammunition isnt going to help you in a self defense situation.

Also, one last tidbit from instructor Claude Werner. On his page he frequently posts articles regarding self defense shootings. He finds that most involved in SD shootings have never attended a training course, much less fired their weapon 1,000 rounds. And yet these Joe/Jane Schmoe types still manage to come out on top more often than not. I am no way advocating that anyone not attend a course, or get quality trigger time and fam fire, they absolutely are a positive and help to further increase the odds in the good guy's favor.

 

[wetdog1911]

The first time I witnessed price gouging was right after the Clinton ban in 1994.
The same thing happened during Y2K.
Then again in 2008 and 2012
They spiked again in 2016 because most people thought Hillary would win.
And now it is happening again.

So unless you are a teenager, how can you let yourself be caught with your pants down.

Forgetting that VERY old saw that "history repeats itself"?

The Clinton ban was enough for me, even though I was ready for that with a few pre-ban purchases.

The wild thing though, was right after Y2K, it seemed that ammo prices really cratered and I concentrated on case lots instead of any guns. Right after the AWB sunsetted in 2004, ammo prices rose in a hurry. Didn't matter though, by then, it was bought cheap and stacked deep. Still is.

A little imagination and foresight goes a long way to avoid panic buying.

It WILL happen again, so don't act surprised when it does, just Be Prepared.

Rob

 

[Gary M]

On the lighter side...
(Yes, I shoot better than I photoshop)