An interesting phone call from a LEO

[Yendor357]

Arguing a hypothetical is pointless.

Take “It could have” to court and see how far that goes.
It doesn’t matter what you believe. It’s what you can prove.

In this case, it can’t be proven that the firearm has been sold. But what can be proven is that Colby bought it because somewhere there is a record of the transaction with Colby’s name and the serial number of the gun.

Under the law, lethally it’s Colby’s gun. <That is why the police (who just happen to be in the legal business) contacted him.

 

[biku324]

That is categorically false.

 

[luvsmiths]

This was not posted for anyone’s amusement. The thread seems to have irritated a few people which certainly was not my intention.

Well, you don't have to worry. No one is paying any attention to you or the original question- they are all too busy being right.

 

[five 0]

For those that keep bringing up that Colby could be tied to a Murder or other serious crime that would not happen because the gun would not be returned to anyone until that crime was brought to trial and all appeals were completed, which could be decades. Also the States Attorney would have to get a court order to release the weapon. The last 2 years of my career, I worked in my departments property section. Every gun that was entered into the section was run through NCIC.

 

[Yendor357]

Logic states that the vast majority of guns used in a crime have been stolen.
Less than 2% of the time a gun that has been used in a crime, it was purchased legally.
Pretty slim odds. Law enforcement knows that. And you would too if you had bothered to do any research.

And I know very well it’s perfectly legal to sell a gun in a parking lot for cash. (That has nothing to do with anything) But unless the buyer then goes to an FFL, fills out the paperwork, and has that gun registered under his name, the Federal government is NOT going to recognize him as being the LEGAL owner because he has no proof.

There is physical evidence that proves Colby owns that gun. He did the legal paperwork.
What physical evidence can you produce to prove otherwise?

It’s not what you believe.
It’s not even really what happened. Unfortunately.
It’s what you can prove.

 

[VictorLouis]

A couple of year's back, I had consigned one of my used guns at a LGS. The gun was sold, and naturally 4473'd by them.

It was found amongst the possessions of a Bad Hombre' in Commifornia.
The trace came back to me. I actually had a lunchtime consult with some Federal folks over this! Thankfully, they were able to quickly cofirm the consigment sale.

Fast-forward to a few months ago.I received a letter from the County Atty, or the State of Cali, I can't recall which. It said I was the owner of record on said firearm. It explained that if I had any claim to the property, it detailed what I could do to retrieve it.

Alas, Gov't.

 

[DHernandez]

Claiming ownership of the weapon would require a sworn affidavit or signature on a government agency form. So even if a 4473 caused an agency to contact that person listed as the original buyer, but they sold said firearm, they don’t have a claim unless they plan to commit perjury by signing a form stating they are the true owner of the property. We have many “straw purchasers” change their ownership claim once they understand the penalty for filing a false claim or signing for receipt of property for which they were a nominee owner…

 

[Rule3]

So what did the guy who Colby sold it to do with it?? Did he keep it or was it stolen from him?? Did he sell it??
What does the guy that was arrested say how he got it??


Another chapter in Colbys book of adventures

 

[biku324]

The legitimate owner probably has a relative who stole and sold it for his drug habit. Legitimate owner does not want to get involved.

As a cop I seen that happened a lot.

Logic states that the vast majority of guns used in a crime have been stolen.
Less than 2% of the time a gun that has been used in a crime, it was purchased legally.
Pretty slim odds. Law enforcement knows that. And you would too if you had bothered to do any research.

And I know very well it’s perfectly legal to sell a gun in a parking lot for cash. (That has nothing to do with anything) But unless the buyer then goes to an FFL, fills out the paperwork, and has that gun registered under his name, the Federal government is NOT going to recognize him as being the LEGAL owner because he has no proof.

There is physical evidence that proves Colby owns that gun. He did the legal paperwork.
What physical evidence can you produce to prove otherwise?

It’s not what you believe.
It’s not even really what happened. Unfortunately.
It’s what you can prove.

Sgt. Rock is right on how folks intending to commit felonies acquire guns (from a friend or relative, regardless of circumstances, or on the street), both in my direct investigative experience as well as in my experience managing criminal investigations.

He's also right according to the most recent research on the matter. See Table 5. https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/suficspi16.pdf

The Federal government does not register guns. And you really don't have to prove you sold or didn't sell a gun - it would be up to a prosecutor to prove it was your gun at the time the crime was committed, that you knew it was going to be used in the crime, and that you provided it anyway. This last is freshman-level criminal procedure.

A person is in possession of __________________ (name of object) when, on the occasion in question, he knows what it is, he knows it is on his person or in his presence and he exercises control over it. Even if the object is not in his physical presence, he is in possession if he knows what it is and where it is and he exercises control over it.] Uniform Jury Instruction - Possession

And:

The crime of aiding and abetting requires the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:

-A crime was committed;
-The accused intentionally aided, counseled, commanded, induced, or procured the person committing the crime;
-The accused acted with the intent to facilitate the crime; and
-The accused acted before the crime was completed.

 

[Goldstar225]

And how are you going to prove that in court, Goldie?

The federal government has a piece of paper with Colby’s name on it along with the serial number of the gun

Does anyone else have legal documentation verifying the ownership of said firearm?

No. But Colby does. Thus he is the legal owner.

You are so clueless I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on someone such as yourself. Have a good day.

 

[Yendor357]

Back at cha bro.

When you have nothing else, you resort to name calling. I was waiting for that.

 

[326MOD10]

You know not to take sides, well I guess I am, but your logic is drastically flawed.

If you read the original post the OP said he sold the gun and it was then sold again.

Clearly he is NOT the owner and he admits to such.

I didn't see any name calling but it does get exhausting at times going back and forth with someone who fails to comprehend the basics.

 

[Puller]

Wow, tough crowd.

 

[biku324]

You know not to take sides, well I guess I am, but your logic is drastically flawed.

If you read the original post the OP said he sold the gun and it was then sold again.

Clearly he is NOT the owner and he admits to such.

I didn't see any name calling but it does get exhausting at times going back and forth with someone who fails to comprehend the basics.

Indeed. It is still true for a few that, "...belief resists information."

 

[BB57]

And how many guns each year sold to those gun buyback programs, are NEVER checked out for anything... oh yeah, most of them.. arent...

The honor system only works when people have a concept of honor.. the modern world doesnt.

Its a grey area in some states that dont require the more modern restrictions on transfering a firearm as the federals do now.

That’s where I am not upset at all over Universal background checks (as long as they are readily available at little or no cost, with little or no delay). It’s protection for you as the seller. And if the buyer objects to a background check. Too bad. They’ll have to try to get a gun from someone else.

 

[Yendor357]

There are reasons why guns have serial numbers and legal forms are filled out. It provides a little bit of protection for both buyer and seller.

Hopefully, this thread has maybe urged a few guys who bought guns off an individual, to fill out the form.

 

[ladder13]

Well, you don't have to worry. No one is paying any attention to you or the original question- they are all too busy being right.

Funny, but oh so true.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Back in, I think Post #17 from ISCS Yoda, his last sentence about trying to buy it makes sense. Especially if it would come down to the Ruger to be cut up for scrap-iron.
Now, the best option would be to rid all involved of the gun, then sell it to a guy in Pittsburgh PA who would give it a good home.

 

[dubshooter]

We end up with a lot of guns like this. We just inventoried over 80 unclaimed guns last month, and they are being sold the beginning of February to an FFL, and they’ll be resold.

 

[xfarfuldog]

A few years ago I had a Glock 21 stolen out of my home. It was reported to the local PD (not my department) and I assumed that was the end of it. Fast forward a couple of years and that PD notified me that the gun was recovered in a raid by a larger local department and the FBI.

After a couple of weeks I heard nothing further and got a copy of my theft report and went down to the recovering agency. I talked to a detective who had been involved in the raid where my gun was recovered. He said he would check into the case and call me with the results. He did so a couple of days later and said that the local charges had been dealt with and my gun had been turned over to the FBI. A day later said detective called and said that the federal charges had been disposed of and the FBI had the US Marshalls destroy my gun.

The gun was not used in any crime but was found at a drug house in the raid. The detective from the recovering agency told me I could file a claim for compensation from his department. I did not do so.