An open carry observation

[Law-dog]

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I divide the entire world into two subdivisions, my side of that gate and your side of that gate.

Wow, perhaps the most insightful words on this thread. Which provokes a response. We all have an inherent bias based on what we smell, taste, feel, and see. Then we read stuff and our brain gets filled with other people's opinions and their actual facts, misinformation and intentional lies. And we let that soak a while and then come up with our opinion, on our side of the fence.

Be then there is that cave bias or gated community bias, words I invented. Which means, we see things from the safety of our cave, crib or home. If there is no gunfights, or deaths withing a couple miles of us then we really have not seen blood or heard the sirens, so our opinion is really just based on what we believe from what we read. So there we are with that Tic Tok brain, kids believe that reality is what they read on Tik Tok and why it should be controlled, they still call it brain washing, right?

----------------------------------So, my perception, facts

1. Old guy 76

2. 24 years military in jobs where I carried a gun 90% of the time,

3, 4 law enforcement jobs

4. Hunter, killed well over 100 animals bigger than me, and lots of little ones

5. Master's Degree in Criminal Justice Administration--means I read lots of books about crime and trends and mentality and all of that.

6. Law degree and prosecutor last 25 years,

7. But..........I worked long term undercover and that is where my open carry concealed carry bias gets it belief.

Deep cover means you live with bad guys, all bad guys use drugs, steal stuff, break stuff, litter, cheat on their taxes, and carry guns. And we sit in strip joints and bars and anywhere and watch people and cops.

It is common for bad guys to trash cops and how easy it would be to kick their azz, snatch their piece, kick their azz and make off with their piece just for fun, how fun would that be?

Sitting in a bar with biker bad guys the talk is low, we could do this or that,,, and kick their azz and I have been there when bad guys attacked cops just for coming into the strip joint.

And now there are old men walking around Walmart with a $1,000-$4,000 handguns showing, how cool is that. Who is the blocker? The blocker is the guy that walks up after you snatch the gun and run, he thumps the old man chasing your or security or anyone who gets in the way.

But they are not stupid, Walmart has cameras everywhere including most of the parking lot, we all know what the cameras cover, so if we want that $4,000 handgun, we have to follow him and grab it some places he might stop, or just find his house and go back later, simple deal, we can take it today or any other day when we are not busy.

From those live events, where I participated in doing bad things to maintain my bone fides, I remember the talks of how easy snatching guns from any really was. I never did it because undercovers cannot intentionally hurt people just because they are easy targets, we could not hurt anyone at all, except bad guys and with the minimum force required to effect an arrest, but we all know that.

I would sometimes ride around and bust out windows on cars parked on the street, just to show the bad guys, that I was a bad guy what fun. Occasionally that is justified.

I am 76 years old and in poor health. I do not care who you are, if you open carry and your holster does not have a retention feature, I can take your gun, if I can get within about 36 inches of you, my reach is 36 inches, and I can do that. If I have a partner, it is easier and my success is higher. If you have a round in the chamber as you should, odds are high that I can snatch it and shoot you with your own gun. All about reaction time and training I have had, and more about actually doing it.

And keep in mind, when you are 76, a fair fight is the one you win. Sucker punch is mandatory, and using a club or something to protect your hands is just common sense. Only a fool participates in a fair fight.

------------------------------------

Bottom line. Our opinion about what some bad guy can do in grabbing an open carry gun is likely flawed, what we think is from our cave bias and not from trying it on the street perhaps in low light or when we are least expecting it.

Cops have a pretty good idea of when a perp can grab for the gun, I have had it happen a few times and it is not fun, because if the BG takes my gun, somebody is getting shot, probably several times. From my gun or my backup, or both.

And the problem nobody on here seems to grip, is that bad guys travel in pairs or groups, one guy grabbing for your gun, the others thumping you in the head and stopping your from reacting, that is reality. Or one or two of them may just shoot you with the stolen Glock or $4,000 custom they stole last week, that is reality.

My bias is with those like Clint Smith and others who have actually worked where real bad guys are encountered often. I worked in two jurisdictions which had the highest incident rate in my state. One was a tourist area, you may not live there but you are an easy target if you come visit and show your gun.

So, Clint Smith says you are a fool to open carry a handgun that is carried for defense. I am in that camp. I have ran with bad guys who would happily choose the fool in 5.11 pants with a $4,000 custom handgun, what fun. Nobody is afraid of any old man with an exposed gun, except the lady who is afraid to walk by the gun counter in Walmart.

So believe what you want, if your cave does not have murders nearby, you probably have little risk, wear your 5.11 pants and custom 1911 and go on about your business. You stick out like a clown when you do, and of course Karen notices you too. And I am glad you are there, takes me out of the list of easy targets.

We all choose how safe or not we want to be, I am that gray man, the one with 2 handguns somewhere on his body.

My 2 cents.

 

[Smoke]

No one. You needn't be a "guru" to recognize poor taste.

I'm going to go home and put on an Aloha just to piss you off

 

[bph9]

You realize the Article is 5 years old right?

32% who say they personally own one, according to a Center survey conducted in June 2023

Key facts about Americans and guns

About six-in-ten U.S. adults (58%) favor stricter gun laws. Another 26% say that U.S. gun laws are about right, while 15% favor less strict gun laws.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Tabby Lynn]

I really didn't need to see that. It'll be here way too soon. Maybe even next month. I can't wait!!! (sarcasm) I wear shorts here in NY from the middle of May to the beginning of October. Lots of people here do also. Some idiots wear shorts in the winter with snow on the ground. I'll never be able to figure out that one.

Rick

Well think about it. While you boys cringe at the thought of wearing shorts in the winter, you think nothing of a woman walking down the street or across the parking lot in a skirt or dress, which most of you appreciate. Do I detect a double standard here? Just for the record, skirts and dresses are worn year around in this neck of the woods. A lot of us non boy types also wear shorts. Toughen up boys, and before some idiot mentions it, NO, we don't wear shorts deer hunting or 10 degrees with 20 mile per hour winds and a foot of snow. There are a few of us girl types who have been out in the woods at minus 20 searching for bedded deer while the guys sat back at the cabin telling war stories and drinking whisky and beer while the girls jumped a nice 8 pointer from it's bed and dragged it back to the cabin only to have the guys complain that it was one of their deer and why did they allow girls in deer camp anyway??????

 

['79 Magnum GT]

Well think about it. While you boys cringe at the thought of wearing shorts in the winter, you think nothing of a woman walking down the street or across the parking lot in a skirt or dress, which most of you appreciate. Do I detect a double standard here? Just for the record, skirts and dresses are worn year around in this neck of the woods. A lot of us non boy types also wear shorts. Toughen up boys, and before some idiot mentions it, NO, we don't wear shorts deer hunting or 10 degrees with 20 mile per hour winds and a foot of snow. There are a few of us girl types who have been out in the woods at minus 20 searching for bedded deer while the guys sat back at the cabin telling war stories and drinking whisky and beer while the girls jumped a nice 8 pointer from it's bed and dragged it back to the cabin only to have the guys complain that it was one of their deer and why did they allow girls in deer camp anyway??????

There is no intentional double standard. I've never given that a thought before. I don't know how you do it. I would guess that nylons are warm in the winter but hot in the summer. Is that true? When I say idiots I mean men that wear shorts in the winter, they are usually somewhat over weight but not all. Can't recall seeing any women wearing shorts in the winter. In my short post there was no mention of hunting, not a hunter myself. There was also no mention of women anywhere. I don't know where this animosity is coming from.

Rick

 

[Tabby Lynn]

There is no intentional double standard. I've never given that a thought before. I don't know how you do it. I would guess that nylons are warm in the winter but hot in the summer. Is that true? When I say idiots I mean men that wear shorts in the winter, they are usually somewhat over weight but not all. Can't recall seeing any women wearing shorts in the winter. In my short post there was no mention of hunting, not a hunter myself. There was also no mention of women anywhere. I don't know where this animosity is coming from.

Rick

Nylons are not really warm in the winter. You are taking your personal thoughts and applying them to 50% of the human race. Looking at the rest of this post I sense a big personal bias. Men who wear shorts in the winter are no dumber than women who wear skirts and dresses, and we are not idiots, nor in my mind are men who occasionally wear shorts in the winter, and there are quite a few that do in this neck of the woods. No, they don't work outside, nor do women who wear skirts and dresses. As far as hunting, there were a few simple facts and the results when us girls, tired of sitting in a cabin dealing with beer farts, noises and other complaints, and decided it would be better to head out into the incessant cold and clear and untainted air than sit around and deal with below zero deer camps when the guys were to much of a Wus to stick their toes outside the door. Dress in layers, don't wander too far away, and come in often to warm up. Time in the woods, equals more deer on the meat pole. Seldom do you get a shot out of the back door. Does happen from time to time but not often enough to make sitting in the cabin and looking out the window to be worthwhile.

 

[Jim0001]

I haven't mentioned this in a while but the very first handgun I ever owned was Smith & Wesson model 915.

The first gun people I ran into were a bunch of old vets that hung out up at Rampart Range just west of Colorado Springs. They all carried 1911s.

They carried them in thumbbreak holsters cocked and locked.

So that was my first real exposure and I thought that's the way that you carried a handgun. I carried my Smith & Wesson model 915 in a thumbbreak holster fully cocked. For probably 6 or 8 months before I found out that wasn't the way to do it.

I'm certain that if the hammer had dropped the thumbreak (Autocorrect does not like the word "Thumbbreak" ) would have stopped it from hitting the firing pin but the reality is not one time in 8 months did the hammer ever fall.

1791 holster company offers a retention holster for 1911's carried in condition 1 (locked and cocked).

 

['79 Magnum GT]

Nylons are not really warm in the winter. You are taking your personal thoughts and applying them to 50% of the human race. Looking at the rest of this post I sense a big personal bias. Men who wear shorts in the winter are no dumber than women who wear skirts and dresses, and we are not idiots, nor in my mind are men who occasionally wear shorts in the winter, and there are quite a few that do in this neck of the woods. No, they don't work outside, nor do women who wear skirts and dresses. As far as hunting, there were a few simple facts and the results when us girls, tired of sitting in a cabin dealing with beer farts, noises and other complaints, and decided it would be better to head out into the incessant cold and clear and untainted air than sit around and deal with below zero deer camps when the guys were to much of a Wus to stick their toes outside the door. Dress in layers, don't wander too far away, and come in often to warm up. Time in the woods, equals more deer on the meat pole. Seldom do you get a shot out of the back door. Does happen from time to time but not often enough to make sitting in the cabin and looking out the window to be worthwhile.

Apparently you have some kind of personal agenda that I'm not interested in at all. I come here to chat with anyone, not just men about mostly S&W related topics, sometimes other topics. When someone comes here and tries to start an argument about nonsense I'll have nothing to due with it. Congratulations! you've earned my very first "ignore". Enjoy it in good health.

Rick

 

[frank1911]

To assume that you are at an advantage by conceal carrying, is to assume that you aren't the intended target. Once they have the drop on you, it's already too late. To open carry is more likely going to deter criminality as it would be stupid to take a chance anyway with someone knowingly armed in the area. That would Most likely send the criminal elsewhere to do his dirty deed. At least the chances would be greater to deter, rather than be the intendded target.

You obviously have not seen the videos where open carriers are robbed at gun point for their gun.

 

[jscott]

To assume that you are at an advantage by conceal carrying, is to assume that you aren't the intended target. Once they have the drop on you, it's already too late. To open carry is more likely going to deter criminality as it would be stupid to take a chance anyway with someone knowingly armed in the area. That would Most likely send the criminal elsewhere to do his dirty deed. At least the chances would be greater to deter, rather than be the intendded target.

Certainly the rational assumption is that no one would challenge an open carrying person. However, after policing in Detroit and Miami-Dade (Homicide) I have talked with young killers who would see a senior person open carrying as a challenge worth taking. An opportunity to prove their street creed. Do not make the mistake of thinking that everyone thinks like you.