Oldsalt66
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A) I think that guy looks like a jerk with that inappropriate get up.
And
B) the other folks in that picture don't appear to be in the least horrified by his presence.
An open carry observation
- Thread starter lrrifleman
- Start date
A) I think that guy looks like a jerk with that inappropriate get up.
And
B) the other folks in that picture don't appear to be in the least horrified by his presence.
Interesting point but only if you have data.
Can you link me to that?
I am well aware of how lower crime rates affect tourism, which shows in the data. If open carry had a meaningful effect, then I would expect the opposite of your contention.
Let us know what you've got.
No...We won't...46 states already have open carry and 1/10th of 1% of the population actually does it.
It will make zero difference in "tourism", just like it did everywhere else...Most people in Central Florida would like a few less tourists anyway, (not that this issue is going to matter one way or the other),.
The point is that it's Federal Law because it's a Federal building....That's the point.
I think maybe some of our brothers here might appreciate reading "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott.
On our forum here, the possibility of a deterrence effect is welcomed when associated with concealed carry, but sorely unwelcome when the consideration is associated with open carry. Lott suggested that any deterrence effect by CCW would be undetectable until or unless the practice reached critical mass.
I only OC while hunting, my CHOICE. I am not against OC, make your choice accept the result.
All I read here is speculation with nary a fact or data to prove anything. A couple of snatches over the many years is your argument?
All I read here is speculation with nary a fact or data to prove anything. A couple of snatches over the many years is your argument?
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Lott's cherry-picked secondary analysis of his favorite other folks' data totally ignores the fact that crime generally is down dramatically nationwide, with violent crime highest in the early '70s, a second, lower peak in 1995/1996, then a much smaller peak towards the end of COVID isolation (which had not yet happened when he published the book). No one in the social research field takes it, or Lott for that matter, seriously.
One of many, many critiques:
Lott has argued that mass shooters seek out gun-free zones, despite evidence to the contrary. And research has consistently demonstrated that states with less restrictive concealed carry laws actually have higher rates of violent crime than states with no such laws. Even conservative researchers have detailed issues with Lott's work, and questioned why some media organizations continue to repeat his findings.
Discredited Gun Researcher Out at Justice Department
John Lott, who pushes the theory that “more guns = less crime,” was hired in October to advise on crime data.
www.thetrace.org
Stanford Law Review: Lott's Central Hypothesis Is "Without Credible Statistical Support." In a Stanford Law Review report titled "The Latest Misfires in Support of the 'More Guns, Less Crime' Hypothesis," Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue III studied how coding errors in data undermine Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime" hypothesis. The authors explain: https://www.mediamatters.org/john-lott/who-gun-advocate-john-lott
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Terry G
Member
The sign at the entrance say's "No Firearms or Weapons allowed on these premises." So I think you can get burned leaving it in the car. I leave it with my Wife while the Doctor or NP does whatever they need to do. My Wife shops until I give her a call to pick me up. I carry under LEOSA, so would they prosecute? Probably not, but I'm not gambling with the best Health Care I've ever had, free of charge, and they pay me for 100 miles I travel. Private Health Care sucks badly compared to the VA. I only open carry when I'm here or someplace like it. Then it's a handgun AND a Rifle or Shotgun.
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The VA saved both of my BILs' and best contracting buddy's lives with prompt diagnosis and treatment of Agent Orange-specific prostate cancer.
I still don't understand. I thought that was self evident . Every VA I've ever been to with the exception of the one at Space Center that's in a shared parking lot. There is a sign at every entrance to the property, stating that this is a federal facility and it's a violation federal law to bring a firearm or any other weapon on the premises.
In general I've had a good experience with the VA. Except for the sleep apnea people.
Going back to carrying on VA property. People with much more legal knowledge than me have stated at least twice in this discussion that walking around a VA facility with an empty holster would cause most folks to have a reasonable suspicion that you had a gun in your car.
Every time this discussion comes up I say the same thing I'm going to say it again all it's going to take is the wrong VA cop on the wrong day.
I'm not going to chance it. I'm surprised when people walk into the VA with an obvious pocket knife.
Going back to carrying on VA property. People with much more legal knowledge than me have stated at least twice in this discussion that walking around a VA facility with an empty holster would cause most folks to have a reasonable suspicion that you had a gun in your car.
Every time this discussion comes up I say the same thing I'm going to say it again all it's going to take is the wrong VA cop on the wrong day.
I'm not going to chance it. I'm surprised when people walk into the VA with an obvious pocket knife.
He's attempting to state that his opinion is that you are violating the law regarding possession of a firearm on VA property by entering the parking lot with a gun in your car. I have no idea if that's true or not . . .
If the parking is VA property he's right. I made it very clear that the VA Clinic I go to is in a shared parking lot. The VA doesn't own it.
The only thing posted is the door into the clinic
The V.A. also asked written questions in one of my visits about whether I owned guns or not. I don't think it is any of their business, and I don't even remember how I answered. One would think that they might trust a Vet since that is who they are supposed to serve. All the vets I know were trained how to handle guns and did so if the duty situation called for it. Know they don't want you to even own a gun? I keep wondering if I on their list of, "Known gun owners."
I think you took the correct action, and you got lucky with the valet. They could have made life a little miserable for sure. Hopefully things have changed a bit now.
mdauben
Member
As someone who worked in a federal office building for 20 years, if the parking lot is VA property, it falls under the federal prohibition on weapons. Our commander's office sent out regular emails to remind us it was illegal to leave firearms in our parked cars.
Oldsalt66
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The attempts to foment controversy over Florida's having become one of the roughly 94% or so of states that now recognize the right to choose to open carry, is reminiscent of the contrived controversy that arises whenever it's been proposed that folks in New Jersey be allowed to pump their own gasoline, and although since the State of Washington finally caved and allows people to pump their own gas; leaving New Jersey as the only state where self service at the gas pumps is prohibited, New Jersey still insists on the absurdity that that to allow people to fill their own cars with gasoline somehow represents a significant public safety issue.
Drem
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I may be wrong but I think the VA has finally gotten to the address the issue with Veterans taking their lives in higher numbers.
I have been asked a few times about owning firearms then the terminology changed to, do you feel safe at home.
With the new phrasing I reply with, "I live on the Westside of town, what do you think."
I have been asked a few times about owning firearms then the terminology changed to, do you feel safe at home.
With the new phrasing I reply with, "I live on the Westside of town, what do you think."
If you've ever filled out a 4473 you're on a list of known gun owners
FWIW since we moved to the wide open spaces all my VA appointments except physical therapy and Cardiology are Telehealth anyway.
We have a blank wall in our bedroom that we use specifically for Telehealth type visits.
There is no such nationwide "list . . . "
Terry G
Member
This. I always get a laugh out of "They'll never know I own a gun. I've never posted on a Gun Forum, or told anyone I own guns." Well, you just told ME, and do you buy a Hunting License? You ever fill out a Form to buy a gun? Both State and Federal require it. Big Brother knows. No one in the VA has asked me if I own a gun or if I "Feel safe at home."
'79 Magnum GT
Member
Back in 1991 through 1996 I had NYJ Season tickets at the Meadow lands in NJ. That's 48 games worth. And at 300 miles away from where I lived I know I had to get gas down there every time. I can't for the life of me remember who put the gas in my car or bike! I've always did it myself everywhere else. Cannot remember about NJ though. In fact it was just recently that I saw it was illegal for one to pump their own gas. It's like a black hole just sucked that knowledge right out of my head. Must be the Alzheimer's.
Rick
Oldsalt66
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Self service at the gas pumps in New Jersey has been illegal since 1949, and to overturn that law, in consideration of the horrible consequences to public safety, allowing folks to now pump their own gas in New Jersey before obtaining more historical data from the 49 states in which self service at the pumps is allowed, would simply be irresponsible and reckless.
As one of the 46 states, and a state that depends heavily on tourism, I can say with absolute certainty that open carry won't matter one iota. Now our largest city Burlington defunding its PD and the resulting crime wave...that mattered, but thankfully the mess is limited to that city and only their tourism business is suffering...as they should as a lesson for anyone else stupid enough to consider it.
'79 Magnum GT
Member
That's what gets me! I can't remember who pumped it since I've always done it myself especially on my Goldwing. Of course there are a lot of things than I don't remember anymore and there is no reason why I should recall this either. Just seems so odd.
Rick
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