Another 22/32 Kit Gun Inquiry

[DoubleTap1429]

I am the owner of a possible 22/32 Kit Gun.

I am trying to get some info on the weapon, such as the age and the exact model.

The weapon is in good shape with normal wear.

What I was wondering was if you Smith gurus could tell me an approximate date this pistol was manufactured and give me a ball park value on this handgun.

This site was recommended to me by a member of AR15.com

The weapon consists of the following:

4" barrel

It has a pinned front sight and adjustable rear sight

Square butt stocks, but when stocks are removed a rounded base.

s/n13889x (no letters, x was added for security reasons)

Not a spot of rust on the weapon.

On the top of the barrel it reads:

Smith & Wesson Springfield, Mass. U.S.A.
Patented Dec.17, 01, Feb.6, 06, Sep.14, 09

Left side of barrel: Smith&Wesson

Right side of barrel: 22 Long Rifle CTG

No number stamped on the hammer.

Serial number is stamped on the front grip strap, on the bottom of the barrel and on the front of the cylinder.

It also has a star stamped on the front strap indicating that it has been back to the armory at some point.

The only thing on the bottom of the grips is a notch on the left one.


Any help would greatly be appreciated.

This weapon originally belonged to my grand father who passed away in 1979..He was born in 1898 so the possibility of it being pre World War II is possible.

Thanks for your time.

~Bob

 

[DoubleTap1429]

I am the owner of a possible 22/32 Kit Gun.

I am trying to get some info on the weapon, such as the age and the exact model.

The weapon is in good shape with normal wear.

What I was wondering was if you Smith gurus could tell me an approximate date this pistol was manufactured and give me a ball park value on this handgun.

This site was recommended to me by a member of AR15.com

The weapon consists of the following:

4" barrel

It has a pinned front sight and adjustable rear sight

Square butt stocks, but when stocks are removed a rounded base.

s/n13889x (no letters, x was added for security reasons)

Not a spot of rust on the weapon.

On the top of the barrel it reads:

Smith & Wesson Springfield, Mass. U.S.A.
Patented Dec.17, 01, Feb.6, 06, Sep.14, 09

Left side of barrel: Smith&Wesson

Right side of barrel: 22 Long Rifle CTG

No number stamped on the hammer.

Serial number is stamped on the front grip strap, on the bottom of the barrel and on the front of the cylinder.

It also has a star stamped on the front strap indicating that it has been back to the armory at some point.

The only thing on the bottom of the grips is a notch on the left one.


Any help would greatly be appreciated.

This weapon originally belonged to my grand father who passed away in 1979..He was born in 1898 so the possibility of it being pre World War II is possible.

Thanks for your time.

~Bob

 

[dinghysailer]

Bob

I's not a kit gun (a close cousin though).

Based on the serial number, according to SCSW, yours is one of the first batch of Bekearts, AKA .22/.32 Heavy Duty targets.

If so, it should have had a 6" barrel, and a number between 1 - 1044 stamped on the bottom of the grip, unrelated to either the serial number or the assembly number.

It'd possible that it was shipped back to the factory to have the barrel cut down or replaced, and might have been refinished at that time and possibly had the grips replaced.

If the factory replaced the barrel they would have stamped the original serial number on the new barrel. If they replaced the grips they might well not have stamped the bottom of the grips. The factory often stamped a date on the side of the grip frame during a rework, in a M.YY format.

In conclusion, your gun probably shipped in 1911 or 1912. I am not an expert on grading or pricing, and there are a few variables like the barrel length and possible refinish to factor in. I'll leave that up to the experts. They'll want more pictures & closeups, especially of the front sight, the crown of the muzzle, the sides of the frame, and all the roll-marks on the barrel.

Allan

 

[VM]

Welcome to the Forum Bob and nice First Post.
Neat little 22!

 

[DoubleTap1429]

That would probably explain the numbers that I found stamped on the frame where they now stamp the model nummber.

4 45

This must mean that the armory stamped star was placed on the weapon in April of 1945 when modifications were made.

Also I believe that the barrel was replaced and not cut down, as the serial number on the barrel has an obvious appearance to have been hand stamped.

Thank you for helping me narrow this down and thanks for the welcome VM.

~Bob

 

[mikepriwer]

Bob

The armory you refer to is the factory !

I agree with the conclusions above. The * is the service department stamp,
and the 4 45 is the return date. The gun was refinished at that time, as
evidenced by the flat pin-end, just forward of the half-mooon frame cutout
on the left side of the frame. That was originally rounded-over.

Interestingly, presuming that the factory did replace the barrel with a shorter
one, the gun is still desireable by collectors, in spite of the refinish. That is
a good configuration, although the Paine bead front sight is difficult for older
eyes !

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[BlackAgnes]

I, too, have one of these modified .22-32s --the rework was done in May of 1948 to include the installation of a pre-war 4" kit gun barrel.

Nice configuration!

Mine is serial # 2765XX.

Tim

 

[Hondo44]

Bob,
That's a beauty! All the input above is correct. Additionally the barrel was definitely replaced because that vintage gun would have had the large mushroom style ejector knob and would still have it if the barrel was cut down. But the 4" barreled kit guns weren't made until after the medium size ejector knob was introduced about 1930 (which your gun has with the corresponding smaller notch in bottom of barrel for the knob). Look carefully for a small diamond stamped under the barrel by the serial #. That indicates factory barrel replacement.
Your gun will not have recessed chambers which began in about 1920. All original 4" kit guns would have recessed chambers because kit guns weren't introduced until 1935.

Value is tough to say; an original in your gun's condition is anywhere from $2000 to $3000. Your's is obviously not original but it is an ORIGINAL factory rework and probably worth at least 1/2 to 2/3 an original, but depends more on the buyer. Personally, I feel factory modified guns are collectable especially if in good shape and they are less expensive.

I installed a 4" barrel on a gun of your vintage that had a bulged barrel and it's a great shooter, but not very valuable. However I don't have to worry about depreciating it's value and can carry and enjoy it to the fullest!

 

[BlackAgnes]

Here's an original kit gun for comparison:

Tim

 

[Hondo44]

Tim,
That's a screamer! thx for posting. Same barrel as I installed on mine. Have you lettered it? What's the serial number? What do you value it at? I know it's not for sale, but just wondered.

JJ

 

[BlackAgnes]

Hondo44

This one is the real thing, serial #5312XX. I have not lettered it yet, but Roy has been kind enough to give me the shipping date. As far as value, hard to say, It's easily a 98% gun, so I'd have to guess $2500-$3500. These days, who knows. But it's not for sale!

The one with the replaced barrel is off for refinishing.


Wouldn't it be nice if the Factory offered a new gun in this configuration!!

Tim

 

[Hondo44]

Wow, that was made at the eve of WW II, the last of the pre-war Kit guns. Very cool!

 

[BlackAgnes]

Hondo44--

August 1938.

Tim

 

[Bekeart]

DoubleTap,

Watch for e-mail.

Looked and you do not have an e-mail address listed in your profile.

Send me e-mail at address listed in my profile.

s/n13889x there is one chance in ten that you have one of the 292 guns in the ORIGINAL order shipped to Phil Bekeart in 1911.


Keep your fingers crossed,

Bekeart

 

[Hondo44]

DoubleTap,
According to Roy Jinks's Bekeart serial number list, your serial # would have to end in a 2 to be one of the original 292 guns in the 1st shipment to Phil Bekeart.

 

[DoubleTap1429]

So were there more shipments made, as 1000 of the weapons were ordered?

What about the serial numbers that ended in 3 through 9, were they shipped to Bekeart and are they worth that much less because they went in the second shipment?

I do realize this weapon is not worth what it would have been if they had not changed the barrel for whatever reason. I am just trying to gain some knowledge and will be passing this handgun down to my son.

Thanks to all that have helped thus far.

~Bob

 

[Hondo44]

Originally posted by DoubleTap1429:
So were there more shipments made, as 1000 of the weapons were ordered?

What about the serial numbers that ended in 3 through 9, were they shipped to Bekeart and are they worth that much less because they went in the second shipment?
~Bob

Bob,
We talk about firearms on this forum. They are only potential weapons until used as weapons.
Here's a summary form the SCS$W, 3rd edition:
The 1st production run in 1910 of 1,044 Bekeart models are in the serial range of # 138227 thru # 139275 (note the range represents 1,048 #'s so apparently some #'s weren't used). The original shipment of 292 to Bekeart was also in that range and are considered the 1st classification of "True" Bekeart Models from a collecting viewpoint.
The remainder of the guns in that production run and serial range went to other dealers and are considered the 2nd class of Bekearts.
The 3rd class is the remainder of the Bekearts with grip numbers up to #3000 when grip #s were discontinued, but there is no 'list' of serial numbers for this class; the grip number being sufficent to identify along with a factory letter.
The 4th, last and least desirable class is any Bekeart from later pre-war production runs that 'letter' as being shipped to Bekeart Sporting goods in S.F. Again there is no serial number list for this class. There you have it.

Note: Bekeart serial numbers were in the .32 Hand Ejector serial number series, so there are huge gaps in the Bekeart serial #s. For example, 1911 production started at 160,000.

 

[Nimrod44]

BlackAgnus,
I have one very similar to the one you have pictured. Mine is not nearly as nice as yours with a fair amount of blue wear. I thought for a while mine was a 2/32 target but later decided it is a pre-war kit gun, but I'm still not sure. Mine has no logo on the left side but a large S&W logo on the right side. This one has the cut out on the rear of the grip frame so that the grips cover almost half of the frame. Ser # is 53348X.
Info from anyone would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Doug

 

[DoubleTap1429]

Thanks for the info Jim.

The word "weapon" comes from my law enforcement training i.e. "holster your weapon" and so on.

I will make an effort to conform

 

[Hondo44]

Bob,
Not that big a deal; the only real rules are Lee's forum rules.

 

[DoubleTap1429]

hey fellas...

could someone please provide me the information about obtaining a letter from s&w reference the Bekeart that i own.

i've been away from the forum for months.

who do i write, what info do i need to provide and what is the cost.

thanks

~bob