Another .38 Lemon Squeezer question

[Fortcouragearmory]

I have a .38 Safety Hammerless serial #208890. Nickel-plated, pinned front sight, 3 1/4" barrel. There's nothing special about it. In fact, I believe it's one of the most common models. I believe this makes it a 4th change model but S&W does an excellent job confusing the issue so I'm not entirely sure.

Can someone with access to the actual records let me know what the manufacture or shipping date was. The gun came to me from family members but they are confused as to who it came from. If it's a 4th, then it probably belonged to my grandfather and might have traveled around the world with him in the Navy. If it's actually a 5th, then it came from my uncle and never left Missouri. Both are deceased now so I can't rightly ask either of them. Thanks for the help.

 

[DWalt]

From the SN, it should be a late 4th, ca. 1906.

 

[mrcvs]

If I were you, I would get a factory letter on it. It may tell you where it was shipped, as well as the exact date of manufacture.

 

[DWalt]

A factory letter will not provide a manufacturing date, only the shipping date. And it will normally indicate only to where it was first sent, and most of the time that will be to some S&W distributor, not the first purchaser.

Unless there is some suspected historical connection or doubt as to the configuration of the revolver (barrel length, stocks, finish, etc.) at the time of shipment, a factory letter seldom provides worthwhile information for the $50 cost.

In this case, it's virtually certain that the manufacturing date is in the mid-1900s (i.e., perhaps 1904-06). The shipping date is often somewhat later than the manufacturing date by months or sometimes years as S&W did not ship in serial number order.

 

[Fortcouragearmory]

Thanks for the answers. The mfg. date means this gun belonged to my grandfather. Mom says he told her he bought it just before he shipped out with the Navy. He was part of The Great White Fleet that Teddy Roosevelt sent around the world and he said that little gun accompanied him everywhere he went. If it could only talk what stories it could probably tell.

 

[opoefc]

As said above, the factory historical letter can only give you the shipping date ( assuming it's not "open on the records, meaning it left S&W under circumstances that kept it from the regular shipping channels) and not the manufacturing date. The manufacturing date can be determined from the Floor Foremans's daily production logs, where the serial numbers of guns produced are listed consecutively by the year, month and day dates. These logs for the Safety Hammerless guns are in the Conn. Valley Historical Museum in Springfield, Mass. and were donated a few years ago from the Estate of Bill Maier through the efforts of myself, Bob Maier, Charlie Pate and Roy Jinks. They are handwritten notebooks, in delicate condition, but can be researched by museum staff. Ed.

 

[mrcvs]

My post was at 5:42 am and I had to leave for work at 5:45 am. I should have stated the reason for a letter would be to provide a date shipped. A good example of production dates and shipping dates differing is that the shipping date on a Smith & Wesson Double Action Frontier often is well into the early 20th Century, but yet they are all classified as antique (pre-1899) as the frames were all produced prior to January of 1899. I thought the reason why a factory letter might come in handy as if it is a late 4th, that is not too far removed from a 5th Model, and the original poster might not be able to differentiate if it was his grandfather's or his uncle's revolver. If a location was provided, if it lettered as coming out of Missouri it may, or may not, have belonged to his uncle, but if it lettered somewhere far distant, it likely belonged to his grandfather.

 

[DWalt]

" If a location was provided, if it lettered as coming out of Missouri it may, or may not, have belonged to his uncle, but if it lettered somewhere far distant, it likely belonged to his grandfather."

Not necessarily. It's possible that a large S&W wholesaler/distributor, say in Chicago or New York, could have sent guns to any retailer anywhere in the US. For example, Sears Roebuck, Belknap, or Hibbard Spencer Bartlett. Back in those days HSB carried a huge and almost unbelievable inventory of guns of all kinds and they supplied hardware stores all over the country.

 

[Fortcouragearmory]

Considering the gun was mfg'd around 1906 and Granddad left on his 'round-the-world Navy cruise in 1908, I'm laying odds on it being his. Uncle didn't even grace the world with his presence until 1922 and wouldn't have bought a gun until the 1940's. All the evidence and common sense says Granddad. Thanks for the info though..

 

[Chief Sapulpa]

Museum research

...The manufacturing date can be determined from the Floor Foremans's daily production logs, where the serial numbers of guns produced are listed consecutively by the year, month and day dates. These logs for the Safety Hammerless guns are in the Conn. Valley Historical Museum in Springfield, Mass...They are handwritten notebooks, in delicate condition, but can be researched by museum staff. Ed.

I emailed the museum asking about researching the notebooks and this was their reply:
"Please contact Roy Jinks, Smith & Wesson historian, for help with your request. You can reach him at 414-258-XXXX.

Margaret Humberston
Head of Library & Archives
Lyman & Merrie Wood Museum of Springfield History
(413) 263-6800, x.311"

 

[glowe]

I should have stated the reason for a letter would be to provide a date shipped. A good example of production dates and shipping dates differing is that the shipping date on a Smith & Wesson Double Action Frontier often is well into the early 20th Century, but yet they are all classified as antique (pre-1899) as the frames were all produced prior to January of 1899.

In this case, the revolver is classified as "modern" by the ATF and subject to all Federal & State regulations for registration, etc. The cut-off for antique status with the S&W DA .38 top break hammerlessis is a serial number below 119,900.