ChattanoogaPhil
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Is GLOCK replacing the PD briefing room floor?
ANOTHER GLOCK KABOOM
- Thread starter roundgunner
- Start date
Is GLOCK replacing the PD briefing room floor?
Not locally. Anyway, no matter what gun is carried, people still have unintentional discharges. In many instances a good safety would prevent such.
BillBingham2
Member
My son told me about a WWII pistol from the Japanese that had multiple "Triggers". He said that it was targeted at the US GIs picking up a souvenir hoping they would shot themselves or a buddy. Lots of training needed to handle them safely. I seem to remember only officers having them. Perhaps GLOCK……
A fine point why going with the low cost bidder is not always the best approach. No such thing as a free lunch.
B2
A fine point why going with the low cost bidder is not always the best approach. No such thing as a free lunch.
B2
JcMack
Member
Your talking about a Nambu type 94. Not multiple triggers, but an exposed sear, poor design. Probably shot as many of their own, as ours. Candidate for "most ugly gun".
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venomballistics
Member
All guns are subject to KB's and its fairly safe to say that all designs have for one reason or another.
Barrel obstruction is a good reason for a KB, but this was not the case. At least not on the surface.
What I suspect happened is related to one of the warnings issued with every polygonal rifled handgun.
"Do not use pure lead bullets" Seems the rifling method is pretty sensitive to lead fouling and use of such will grenade the gun in a few mags worth of short lived fun.
Jacketed bullets, as recommended in this type, fouls as well, last time I checked.
My theory here is that the insidious accumulation of jacket fowling is behind this automatic disassembly case.
lead fowling may accumulate at a higher rate but copper jacket fowling still accumulates and likely needs less build up to do this due to its harder composition.
If they are lead fowling sensitive, they are sensitive to fowling period.
In traditional land and groove rifling Ive seen lead fowling so severe that slabs of lead began to extrude from the muzzle from each groove and the result was just amusement at the phenomena when it was discovered.
OP
Could be, although I have never heard him say it, many local Glock shooters brag about never cleaning the things because it makes them unreliable. Then go on to say; the only time it jams is right after I clean it.
I think it's BS, I clean every gun, every time, but I shoot lead almost exclusively. I have to get the lube off the extractor or I would have FTE nightmares and wake up Mrs Roundgunner!
I think it's BS, I clean every gun, every time, but I shoot lead almost exclusively. I have to get the lube off the extractor or I would have FTE nightmares and wake up Mrs Roundgunner!
Springfield Bob
Member
Sigma clone of Glock
Twelve years ago when I was on the job we were carrying S&W Sigma's.
At qualifications I had the barrel bulge on me using FACTORY ammo.
We also had another Sigma crack a rail while also qualifying at a different time using factory ammo. My department switched over to the S&W SW99.
Regards,
Bob
=bitstream;135907981]If it's the ammo, then it should occur in other brands of handguns. Even allowing for the popularity of the Glock, all other brands should statistically have kabooms in proportion to their numbers in circulation.
I've not heard of any other brand having these issues. Does anyone else know of any other brand with occurrences of this?
The Sigma is a clone of the Glock. I haven't heard of this happening on any Sigma. Shouldn't a clone have the problem too?[/QUOTE]
Twelve years ago when I was on the job we were carrying S&W Sigma's.
At qualifications I had the barrel bulge on me using FACTORY ammo.
We also had another Sigma crack a rail while also qualifying at a different time using factory ammo. My department switched over to the S&W SW99.
Regards,
Bob
=bitstream;135907981]If it's the ammo, then it should occur in other brands of handguns. Even allowing for the popularity of the Glock, all other brands should statistically have kabooms in proportion to their numbers in circulation.
I've not heard of any other brand having these issues. Does anyone else know of any other brand with occurrences of this?
The Sigma is a clone of the Glock. I haven't heard of this happening on any Sigma. Shouldn't a clone have the problem too?[/QUOTE]
It also gives me an outlet for humor.
There is a saying that goes like this; Friends don't let friends buy Glocks.
__________________
Warren, thanks ya just gotta love it.
There is a saying that goes like this; Friends don't let friends buy Glocks.
__________________
Warren, thanks ya just gotta love it.
Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Might also be that there are a lot of really annoying Glock fanbois out there jumping into every single thread on every single topic spouting "BUY A GLOCK!BUY A GLOCK!BUY A GLOCK!" :barf:
scooter123
Member
I'm leaning towards an "out of battery" condition. If this shooter does burn up as much ammo as noted, it's possible that a bit of wear on the "wrong" part allowed the gun to fire with the round not fully seated in the chamber. Fact is that damage looks rather slight and about what I would expect from an OOB failure. Another hint of this is that there is case remains that there appear to have trapped between the barrel hood and breech face. With Gocks partial ramp support, firing out of battery by only about 1/16 inch would probably allow this to happen.
David LaPell
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I have seen three Glock pistols with less than 1,000 rounds or so break. Not kabooms, but one had the potential if the guy wasn't an experienced shooter he could have sent another round into the barrel that was no longer in line with the frame. These were all Glock 21's. They are not the wonderweapon they have been advertised to be.
Hi:
The information I received fro Glock is not to use lead bullets or reloads.
I therefore use only factory ammo with jacketed bullets.
Jimmy
The information I received fro Glock is not to use lead bullets or reloads.
I therefore use only factory ammo with jacketed bullets.
Jimmy
palmetto99
Member
Other handguns also go KABOOM. But, Glocks seem to get all the "press" when it happens. Someone posted pictures of a 1911 that KABOOM'd. Wish I could remember the site. I may be wrong, but most of the KB's seemed to happen with .40 S&W. I may also be wrong again, but doesn't the .40 S&W operate a very high pressure?
David Sinko
Member
It looks to me like the round went off as it was being chambered. I see a lot of brass that is flared around the chamber so it looks like the round was pretty far out of the chamber when it happened. Maybe a problem with the primer?
I have experienced this once with a Ruger 10/22 and cheap Remington ammo. The round went off when it was only halfway into the chamber and there was a lot of mushrooming of the brass.
Is this Glock completely stock, especially with the spring weights? The guide rod in the first pic does not appear to be stock, though it could be the angle that makes the captured end of the rod look bigger.
Dave Sinko
I have experienced this once with a Ruger 10/22 and cheap Remington ammo. The round went off when it was only halfway into the chamber and there was a lot of mushrooming of the brass.
Is this Glock completely stock, especially with the spring weights? The guide rod in the first pic does not appear to be stock, though it could be the angle that makes the captured end of the rod look bigger.
Dave Sinko
OP
It is a match gun. Not sure how many mods have been done to it but I'm sure it is still IDPA legal. I think it was OOB too.
billdeserthills
Member
I met a guy at the gunshow 2 years ago, his Kahr PM-9 chain-fired while using WWB. His right hand was heavily scarred & he had pictures of everything along with the casings. He said he called Kahr after it happened & they told him it wasn't their fault (it wasn't) & hung up on him.
I believe it!!!!!
I know for a fact that Glocks do go "bad". One of my shooting partners brought his model 21 (45 cal) to the Smyrna GA location the day before a Glock match for a tune up and a once over. We went to our range that afternoon to run through a for strings of fire for the following day and the gun exploded. The trigger disappeared, locked up the gun, shattered the mag, and bulged the lower frame. Well, long story short, Winchester white box-- Glock did not replace the gun due to "there were a number of extractor marks on the fired case". Well as we all know it is a possibility that one may chamber a round and not shoot it, and then put it back in the box for another time. Never heard of that at Glock I guess. Anyhow, after that bull, the arguing about the ammo, the bad attitude, and unprofessionalism shown by one of the armorers; I sold 6 out of 7 of my glocks, stopped shooting their matches, stopped pumping up gGlocks to everyone I met, and put the remaining 2nd gen model 17 up as a house warming gift for a potential bad guy.
Glocks do go bad with factory ammo. Why do they get all of the press? Because this is the information age, they blow to many pieces, and tend to hurt the user.
Do other guns "KABOOM", ah---- yes they do. I shot a pin match one night and a fella lost a Colt Delta Elite to a "Kaboom". I had a reload go in my Springfield 1911 (90s model). Case was weak and gave way at the 6 o'clock position. blew the floor plate out of the mag along with 2-3 rounds, cracked the left grip panel, and made a brown spot in my pants. No double charge, no malfuction in the gun, just a weakened 45 acp case with alot of mileage. Another friend of mine had a similar event with an officer's model. The barrel link broke as well as taking out the breakdown pin.
As you can gather from the description, not a ton of damage; a quick inspection, a part or two, and back into the fray. Guns fail-- that is a fact. Plastic guns will not fair well to the forces of a case seperation, out battery, or another malfuction-- a steel and wood gun will fair better under the same circumstances but there are no guarantees.
I my many years of shooting and hanging around ranges and matches has given me the oportunity to see the "what goes wrong" with guns and ammo. At times a mistake at the reloader can make a jewell into a pile of poo, putting the gun through unintended uses, and other weird things out there as well as the normal wear and tear tells me this will not be the end of the "GLOCK KABOOM" stories.
One more thing-- I wonder how all of these "plastic" guns (I know-- there are polymer) will stand the test of time. Metal and wood guns of the "antique" age have metal fatigue and break parks and fail. What will happen to those 65-70 year old plastic guns. Just thinking out loud.
I know for a fact that Glocks do go "bad". One of my shooting partners brought his model 21 (45 cal) to the Smyrna GA location the day before a Glock match for a tune up and a once over. We went to our range that afternoon to run through a for strings of fire for the following day and the gun exploded. The trigger disappeared, locked up the gun, shattered the mag, and bulged the lower frame. Well, long story short, Winchester white box-- Glock did not replace the gun due to "there were a number of extractor marks on the fired case". Well as we all know it is a possibility that one may chamber a round and not shoot it, and then put it back in the box for another time. Never heard of that at Glock I guess. Anyhow, after that bull, the arguing about the ammo, the bad attitude, and unprofessionalism shown by one of the armorers; I sold 6 out of 7 of my glocks, stopped shooting their matches, stopped pumping up gGlocks to everyone I met, and put the remaining 2nd gen model 17 up as a house warming gift for a potential bad guy.
Glocks do go bad with factory ammo. Why do they get all of the press? Because this is the information age, they blow to many pieces, and tend to hurt the user.
Do other guns "KABOOM", ah---- yes they do. I shot a pin match one night and a fella lost a Colt Delta Elite to a "Kaboom". I had a reload go in my Springfield 1911 (90s model). Case was weak and gave way at the 6 o'clock position. blew the floor plate out of the mag along with 2-3 rounds, cracked the left grip panel, and made a brown spot in my pants. No double charge, no malfuction in the gun, just a weakened 45 acp case with alot of mileage. Another friend of mine had a similar event with an officer's model. The barrel link broke as well as taking out the breakdown pin.
As you can gather from the description, not a ton of damage; a quick inspection, a part or two, and back into the fray. Guns fail-- that is a fact. Plastic guns will not fair well to the forces of a case seperation, out battery, or another malfuction-- a steel and wood gun will fair better under the same circumstances but there are no guarantees.
I my many years of shooting and hanging around ranges and matches has given me the oportunity to see the "what goes wrong" with guns and ammo. At times a mistake at the reloader can make a jewell into a pile of poo, putting the gun through unintended uses, and other weird things out there as well as the normal wear and tear tells me this will not be the end of the "GLOCK KABOOM" stories.
One more thing-- I wonder how all of these "plastic" guns (I know-- there are polymer) will stand the test of time. Metal and wood guns of the "antique" age have metal fatigue and break parks and fail. What will happen to those 65-70 year old plastic guns. Just thinking out loud.
bmcgilvray
Member
As always, I'm just grateful I don't have to own a Glock.
NFrameFred
Member
Disclaimer - Currently own one Glock, have had at least seven; not a favorite but don't really have an ax to grind with them . . .
Don't have a dog in this fight, but do have a couple of observations/suppositions . . . . .
I would wager that that statistically there has been more commercial ammo produced/sold since the last election than in recent times. In a rush to produce increased amounts of anything quality control suffers, more at some companies than others. Competition for raw materials in such times leads some to accept less than the highest standard in order to maintain sales/production.
A corollary to that is there are more folks actually shooting for practice and recreation these days with the onset of recent events and the proliferation of legal concealed carry.
Ergo, it's not a stretch to imagine that when more ammo is made/sold and more guns are being shot, the more KABOOMs (as the thread terms it) we are likely to see. A sad and little known/advertised/acknowledged fact is the number of personnel that are killed/injured in "training accidents" in our military due to equipment failure/malfunction and/or ordnance deficiencies. (That's why those in the know say "3 second grenade fuses AREN'T"). Naturally, statistically this will always be the case since, the military is in the business of practicing and the serious application of shooting things and blowing things up. Colonel Cooper once commented on a supposed quote about a Russian general's take on the safety on a weapon . . . he was reported to have said, " Is NOT safe, is GUN !"
I've seen match guns blown up for years; that's why the 38 supers went exclusively to fully supported chambers and ramped barrels for those applications early on. The limits are being pushed, and the materials, equipment, and applications are not always going to be up to the safest standards, no matter how much they should be.
Like the K frame weaknesses that showed up over years, the proliferation of the design of polygonally rifled barrels seems to be ( at least to me) demonstrating that this method of rifling may not be as safe and tolerant of anything less than fastidious attention to keeping it completely clean and free of fouling build up.
Like many "accidents" it is usually a stacking of two, three, or more factors when something like this happens instead of just one root cause.
Don't have a dog in this fight, but do have a couple of observations/suppositions . . . . .
I would wager that that statistically there has been more commercial ammo produced/sold since the last election than in recent times. In a rush to produce increased amounts of anything quality control suffers, more at some companies than others. Competition for raw materials in such times leads some to accept less than the highest standard in order to maintain sales/production.
A corollary to that is there are more folks actually shooting for practice and recreation these days with the onset of recent events and the proliferation of legal concealed carry.
Ergo, it's not a stretch to imagine that when more ammo is made/sold and more guns are being shot, the more KABOOMs (as the thread terms it) we are likely to see. A sad and little known/advertised/acknowledged fact is the number of personnel that are killed/injured in "training accidents" in our military due to equipment failure/malfunction and/or ordnance deficiencies. (That's why those in the know say "3 second grenade fuses AREN'T"). Naturally, statistically this will always be the case since, the military is in the business of practicing and the serious application of shooting things and blowing things up. Colonel Cooper once commented on a supposed quote about a Russian general's take on the safety on a weapon . . . he was reported to have said, " Is NOT safe, is GUN !"
I've seen match guns blown up for years; that's why the 38 supers went exclusively to fully supported chambers and ramped barrels for those applications early on. The limits are being pushed, and the materials, equipment, and applications are not always going to be up to the safest standards, no matter how much they should be.
Like the K frame weaknesses that showed up over years, the proliferation of the design of polygonally rifled barrels seems to be ( at least to me) demonstrating that this method of rifling may not be as safe and tolerant of anything less than fastidious attention to keeping it completely clean and free of fouling build up.
Like many "accidents" it is usually a stacking of two, three, or more factors when something like this happens instead of just one root cause.
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ChattanoogaPhil
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When I bought my Gen2 17 about 20 years ago I shot it quite a lot. I must have gone through a half dozen boxes (pic below). It was not uncommon to shoot 500+ in a single shooting session... near zero fouling.
I used the same 2000+/- mixed cases over and over and over... I found one case split after cleaning (could have been from another shooter that I picked up).
I no longer reload 9mm because there just isn't that much savings over the Win USA 'White box'.
It's interesting to read about the issues suffered by folks with these guns after the all the use and abuse my 17 has endured absent a failure as so many have described. I sometimes jokingly say that I live a charmed life.Though, I can't help but always wonder if there is some little piece to all these stories that has somehow not been revealed... unintentionally... but just not there.
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I used the same 2000+/- mixed cases over and over and over... I found one case split after cleaning (could have been from another shooter that I picked up).
I no longer reload 9mm because there just isn't that much savings over the Win USA 'White box'.
It's interesting to read about the issues suffered by folks with these guns after the all the use and abuse my 17 has endured absent a failure as so many have described. I sometimes jokingly say that I live a charmed life.Though, I can't help but always wonder if there is some little piece to all these stories that has somehow not been revealed... unintentionally... but just not there.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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