Another gun pointing home owner charged

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My goodness, a mob gathers on the porch and front yard of a public official for the specific purpose of provoking an incident, now they are upset about the results.

Unfortunately, in this case the DA's husband gave these "peaceful protestors" exactly what they wanted to achieve.

Fortunately, the gentleman did not give them any martyrs or poster boys for their propaganda machines to exploit.
 
The strategy of opening the door, in the presence of trespassers is really poorly thought out. He pointed a gun at them, finger on the trigger and said he would shoot them. Sounds like assault to me.

Nothing good will come from opening the door.

Property should have been posted. Put a sign in the window that says "NO COMMENT".

Massad Ayoob "Don't Answer The Door!!!" - YouTube
 
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As stupid as this guy obviously was for opening the door, pointing his firearm at protesters, and threatening to shoot them was, these protesters really get way too much leeway here.

Honestly, this is a public disturbance at best, trespassing and harassment at worst and it shouldn't be allowed. Is there a way to stop it peacefully, I don't know, but exactly how far is this sort of thing allowed to go before the police should step in?

I'm really glad that I don't live particularly close to the city because if a bunch of -- Man, at times like these is it difficult to refrain from using curse words -- "peaceful protesters" were making a nuisance of themselves in my neighborhood, much less out on my front lawn, then I would be extremely aggravated by the situation.

Now obviously, I wouldn't behave aggressively towards them, I'd probably just do my absolute best to ignore them in hopes that they'd go away, but man, would that be annoying.
 
Stricter laws on protesters need passed. To me protesting stops the minute another's rights are violated. These so called protesters are getting away with the same things that would get a cop fired. Citizens have the right to safety. Especially in their homes. Who wants to trust their safety to a mob?I question the mental capacity of anyone involved in these mobs. These mobs contain college professors that are willing to cause harm to others because of nothing more than opinion on an issue. These people need some " higher education", but until we have laws we are stuck. You would think in these political situations if law can't respond to protect home owner that common sense would be used in charging.
 
My wife awakened me at 0130 and said there was a puke ringing our doorbell. Puke=criminal, or ne'er do well. I met him at the door, opened it with a .45 in my hand. He sobered up quickly and said "oh God please don't shoot me". He showed signs of being drunk, and I could smell it on his breath. We live in the middle of 8.6 acres, posted, and surrounded by barb wire. I said what do you want, he said his car was in the ditch and he needed help. I said I know who to call to help you, and shut the door. I called the sheriff's office. We watched him climb over the gate and run to the house across the road, and woke them up. The sheriff arrived and arrested him. I had to write a report to get him booked, which I did. I never heard any more about it.
 
Drm50 said:
Stricter laws on protesters need passed. To me protesting stops the minute another's rights are violated. These so called protesters are getting away with the same things that would get a cop fired. Citizens have the right to safety. Especially in their homes. Who wants to trust their safety to a mob?I question the mental capacity of anyone involved in these mobs. These mobs contain college professors that are willing to cause harm to others because of nothing more than opinion on an issue. These people need some " higher education", but until we have laws we are stuck. You would think in these political situations if law can't respond to protect home owner that common sense would be used in charging.
Click to expand...

I think there are plenty of laws already. We just need political leadership that's willing to enforce them.
 
Unfortunately the problem with gun laws today is that the line between what you could do and what you should do has become very blurry. When does "open carry" cross over into "reckless display"? When does "stand your ground" cross over into "assault with a deadly weapon"? It's not black or white (no pun intended).

Unfortunately no law, rule or regulation can cover all possibilities or situations (nor would you want it to try), and it is incidents like this one that show us how many folks just can't tell that they've stepped over the line when they are under stress.

Since everybody else gets their day (and their say) in court then I'm going to reserve judgment on this guy until he gets his day as well.
 
This is another political charging similar to the St. Louis couple, by an attorney should not have a law license or be in a position to misuse his authority in that fashion. Sadly, the charging attorney is the AG of California, and he hates decent people, guns, etc. He is much like the AG here, who I loathe.
 
Borderboss said:
As soon as protesters are on your property, they are trespassing, so call the cops and let them do their job. If they impact the home in any way, report to the cops that trespassers are trying to break into your home. Get the cops working on it.
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Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?
 
As I understand it, at least here in VA unless your property is posted or an individual has been informed verbally or in writing, simply being on someone's property without permission is not "trespassing".
 
Messy situation.

Looking at the video, at the 1 minute mark we see a residential property that lacks a fence and a gate, locked or otherwise. The entrance to the front porch isn't gated, either. What's to stop someone, anyone, from walking up to the front door of the property that isn't posted?

The sidewalk (where the protesters in that part of the video are gathered) isn't private property. There are circumstances where being in the open driveway, and even standing on the open front porch, can be considered being in Public, even though it's private property.

This isn't a rural area. It's a residential area in a major city. Nothing in the article or video indicates the protesters had attempted to force their way into the residence, let alone in a manner that could be described as causing someone in the house to feel a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household.

Consider this Penal Code section of CA law, 198.5:
"Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury."
Law section.

Instead, the homeowner opened the front door to someone (apparently 3 someones) who didn't appear to be offering violence, who said "Good morning" to the homeowner, and the homeowner pointed a gun at them and threatened to shoot them.

If the homeowner hadn't opened the door to confront the 3 protesters, and had called the police to enforce a criminal trespass if the 3 people didn't leave once told to leave (since no signs were posted on the unfenced, ungated front of the property)? Probably wouldn't be in this mess.

And if the protesters had attempted to forcibly enter the residence? Different situation.

Here's a link to the charging document. It appears the state AG is charging the suspect with 3 counts (3 victims) under the misdemeanor nature of 245(a)(2) of the Penal Code, instead of felony counts.

https://www.politico.com/states/f/?id=00000173-ba7e-dbfe-a97f-bbff4cde0000



Short version:
CHAPTER 9. Assault and Battery [240 - 248] ( Chapter 9 enacted 1872. )


245.

(a) ...

(2) Any person who commits an assault upon the person of another with a firearm shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not less than six months and not exceeding one year, or by both a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000) and imprisonment.

Full body of PC section, if anyone's interested:
Law section

One article states the suspect's wife (DA) was upstairs when her husband opened the front door and confronted (threatened) the 3 protesters. Did she know he'd gotten his gun and was going downstairs to confront the protesters on their front porch? Dunno. I'd not be surprised if she'd have advised him against his planned action if she had known what he was going to do, and had instead called the police to handle it.

Folks might wish to consider the information in the previously linked video by Mas.

Now, other folks may wish to express how their resident state may have statutory laws that treat this sort of situation differently, except this happened in the state where this homeowner lives, and his wife is the elected District Attorney of the largest city in the state.

Also, this protester presence and situation has apparently been ongoing for a quite a while, and the protesters have repeatedly been attempting to speak with the DA. It's not like the DA and her husband haven't had plenty of time to consider their response to this sort of situation.

This is going to be a messy and likely difficult legal situation for the (now) suspect, as well as his wife, the DA facing an election. It could've been avoided.
 
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I dunno about that, but I will say this much... There are social movements which seem to exist solely for the purpose of reaopening old wounds and increasing racial sensitivity going on in the background in order to provoke violence and promote social unrest.

Honestly, it ought to be abundantly clear to anyone with good intentions that these sorts of things don't help anyone and always just end up causing trouble, so I don't buy for a single minute that the organizations behind these protests don't mean any harm when they do things like constantly call attention to isolated incidents of police brutality, label them as racially motivated hate crimes, get everyone all riled up, then promote protests which they have to know will inevitably get violent at some point since they're bound to get out of hand with so many angry folks packed tightly together, often making a public nuisance in the progress, then police will be called in who have been painted as bigoted oppressors and victimizers.
Yeah, that's totally not an obvious recipe for disaster, especially when it has gone badly several times over.

And once again, it all goes back to what I've been saying all along about failure to accept personal responsibility causing trouble. If everyone would only accept personal responsibility for their actions and the consequences they bring, then these things wouldn't happen. Because we wouldn't have entire legions of easily manipulated people who refuse to accept such responsibility and thus are all too happy to accept a mindset that enables them to relinquish all responsibility such as assuming the identity of a born victim, oppressed and downtrodden with absolutely no hope of ever succeeding, so why bother trying? It's the perfect excuse to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and when your life never improves, you don't have to blame yourself because the entire world would have banded together to block you at every turn.

Granted, it's not everone's fault who thinks that way, namely young people who were raised in an environment that promotes that way of thinking, and ostracizes anyone who refuses to accept it. It happens all over the world and can happen to anyone growing up, (regardless of race, gender, or creed) but there comes an age when people ought to start thinking for themselves, and the conscious decision to either reject or accept that way of thinking is what separates the adults from the perpetual children who refuse to accept personal responsibility.

I myself fell prey to that way of thinking in my youth, but eventually I rejected it. It most certainly has left its mark on me, and made it hard to persevere at times, nearly falling back into that old defeatist attitude whenever I failed, but then I remember a decision that I made long ago, to be the survivor who never gives up rather than the victim who accepted absolute defeat, never to try again. No one should have to live like that, and shame on those who promote that attitude because they have become the very monster they claim to stand against, the oppressive force that holds them back. It's not "the man" or some majority ethnic group or whatever scapegoat they fancy, not in this great country at least, and it makes me mad to think of all the brave patriots who fought for freedom only to be dishonored by disingenuous rhetoric and constant reminders of a bygone era of oppression.

People can change and society will endure regardless, but in order for order to prevail over chaos, people both individually and collectively make the conscious decision to believe that it is possible for order to prevail and accept that their actions have consequences rather than fall into the trap of adopting a nihilistic outlook on the world.

In short, responsibility is the root of order, nihilism is the root of chaos. So changing the world, for better or worse, ultimately comes down to a simple decision. Either you choose to believe that your actions have consequences and assume full responsibility for any negativity which comes from said actions or you choose to believe that nothing you do actually matters and ultimately end up participating in harmful/chaotic activities, then when everything turns out horrible as a result, you blame it all on something else or pretend that it was inevitable regardless of the path you have chosen, the hallmark of a born loser and perpetual failure.
 
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Nov 3 its going to get a LOT LOT Worse Folks. Keep a Weapon secured unless its life and death, in your car, at home, street, If your about to be attacked to a point its life threatening start shooting...Period, no wound shot, no threats, Draw and shoot if Your Life is in Jeopardy. I hate How our nation is going but its all been planned out long ago, Yes folks, the Overthrow of America. Im not a Political Zealot, Not a Big Trump supporter, am rather disappointed with the R party, I am More Mild Moderate, but things are changing folks ....to the not so Good.
 
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johngalt said:
Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?
Click to expand...

You can open the door with the gun present but not pointed, while having 911 on the phone that you're detaining the trespassers until the police get there. Keep your story in front of the police.

However, I hear what you're saying. That's why many of is are getting out of crazy places like that. I think it's ironic that this guy's wife is part of the reason that the crazy mob exists that attacked their home. He should have sent her outside to talk to them.
 
colt_saa said:
If you come onto my porch at 5:30 in the morning . . . knocking and ringing my bell, you will be met by an armed homeowner

My speech to the my Wife's Stalkers would have been different than the video I just saw and my firearm would not yet be pointed at anybody in particular
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That reminds me of two things which actually happened to my brother. One time he had some bald young white kid come up onto the porch and attempt to turn the doorknob and walk right inside, but the door was locked, so he then started acting like he was going to break the window, at which point he sees my brother through the window holding a little itty bitty Taurus TCP-738 and takes off running. Apparently he had seen some young folks casing the neighborhood for over a week too. I was actually present for this one, so I saw it with my own eyes.

Another time he was making lunch and someone suspicious came pounding aggressively on the door, so my brother answered the door with his Taurus Judge in hand, to which the guy immediately threw his hands up in the air and shouted; "I'M FRIENDLY! I'M FRIENDLY!" So my brother replied; "Then this isn't for you." After that the guy explained that he was just looking for a pet that had run off in the area and was only pounding at the door because he was panicking. The story seems to have been the truth as well, because the neighbors confirmed that he had come knocking at their doors asking if they had seen his pet, so if he were looking to do something, then he probably would have attacked one of the elderly neighbors who didn't answer the door armed with a hand cannon.
 
I have seen the vid of him waving the gun around.....was that one of those expensive...Hi-Points???
 
Hmmm. This is one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. As was alluded to earlier, those "peaceful protestors" were baiting that guy. They wanted him to defend his property, hoping he'd make the faux pas of bringing a gun to the party. Now, let's just assume that he hadn't done what he did. Let's just assume he stayed in the house. It's a pretty good bet they not only would've come up on his porch, but they would've also either started pounding on the door or possibly thrown something through the window, provoking him to come out and confront them. Then when he came out waving the gun, they would've had him again.

Like I said, one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. Can't win either way. You can bet your bobsled that the whole thing was planned to the "t."
 
Of all the points folks have made here on this topic, the one I have trouble getting behind is to blame the protesters because "they are young", or something similar. While the average age of the protesters we see on the videos may be younger than the average age of the people on this forum, all of them were raised - and taught - by somebody older than they were. It's difficult to lay blame on these people when we've been teaching them to "question authority" and "think for themselves" all their lives - and then they do.

It seems that lessons like "respect authority" and "pay attention to those with experience and knowledge" that we would like them to follow haven't held much sway regardless of age or circumstances.
 
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