Another gun pointing home owner charged

Get off my lawn, porch property. Waving the gun around with his trigger on the trigger might not have been his best move, especially living where he does. But, around here I imagine the sheriff would tell the complainant they should probably stay off the guys porch.

My property is actually posted. Thanks to a nit wit, that I didn't want around no more and he wouldn't take the very well explained "Stay off my place." I didn't wave a gun around, I did put up signs, typed out a complaint and notice, called the local law and had them deliver the message a second time.
 
Jon651 said:
Of all the points folks have made here on this topic, the one I have trouble getting behind is to blame the protesters because "they are young", or something similar. While the average age of the protesters we see on the videos may be younger than the average age of the people on this forum, all of them were raised - and taught - by somebody older than they were. It's difficult to lay blame on these people when we've been teaching them to "question authority" and "think for themselves" all their lives - and then they do.

It seems that lessons like "respect authority" and "pay attention to those with experience and knowledge" that we would like them to follow haven't held much sway regardless of age or circumstances.
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If you are referring at all to my post, then you misunderstood what I was saying, although I don't blame you as I have a tendency to ramble on and go off on tangents which makes it difficult to follow what I'm saying at times, but I digress... I wasn't saying that all of the folks who participate in these protests are misguided youths, merely giving the benefit of the doubt to those who are young who may be involved.

Furthermore, at times when I refer to people as "children" or something to that effect, I'm using it as a metaphor for their nihilistic belief that their actions are largely inconsequential because such beliefs are like that of a child who attempts to redirect any blame for their actions elsewhere in order to avoid punishment.
In addition, the persecution complex often shared by many of the folks who participate in these sorts of protests is also characteristic of adolescents, (namely teenagers) who in yet another attempt to escape responsibility choose to believe that when they are scolded or punished for their misbehavior that they are being treated unfairly and are deserving of more privileges, as if being treated as an adult would make their disobedience somehow acceptable because in their eyes adults can do whatever they want, failing to recognize the responsibilities of adulthood as well as the fact that even adults must yield to authority and abide by the rules of the law.

In other words, in accordance with my own ideals that the acceptance of personal responsibility is the defining characteristic of adulthood, those who adopt nihilistic beliefs and develop persecution complexes are intellectually, emotionally, and morally stunted to the point of perpetual immaturity.

Just wanted to clear that up in case there was any confusion on the subject.
 
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Forte Smitten Wesson said:
If you are referring at all to my post, then you misunderstood what I was saying, although I don't blame you as I have a tendency to ramble on and go off on tangents which makes it difficult to follow what I'm saying at times, but I digress... I wasn't saying that all of the folks who participate in these protests are misguided youths, merely giving the benefit of the doubt to those who are young who may be involved.

Furthermore, at times when I refer to people as "children" or something to that effect, I'm using it as a metaphor for their nihilistic belief that their actions are largely inconsequential because such beliefs are like that of a child who attempts to redirect any blame for their actions elsewhere in order to avoid punishment.
In addition, the persecution complex often shared by many of the folks who participate in these sorts of protests is also characteristic of adolescents, (namely teenagers) who in yet another attempt to escape responsibility choose to believe that when they are scolded or punished for their misbehavior that they are being treated unfairly and are deserving of more privileges, as if being treated as an adult would make their disobedience somehow acceptable because in their eyes adults can do whatever they want, failing to recognize the responsibilities of adulthood as well as the fact that even adults must yield to authority and abide by the rules of the law.

Just wanted to clear that up in case there was any confusion on the subject.
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It appears that I may have lost the train of you intended reasoning. I can fully understand if someone is frustrated over child-like behavior, while at the same time I cannot get behind someone blaming them just because they are children.

A fine point to be sure, and thanks for helping clearing the air. I didn't mean to step on any toes.
 
No apology is necessary, I took no offense and am aware that my reasoning can be somewhat difficult to follow, especially due to my habit of speaking at length on any given subject and going off on a tangent midway through explanations.

Furthermore, I actually agree with you. If you go back and reread my original post on the matter, I acknowledged that even those who are raised by nihilists and folks with persecution complexes cannot escape from blame because they're old enough to make their own decisions and establish their own beliefs.
 
Pretty much doesnt matter what you do or dont do nowadays. He could have had a tube of superglue in his hand and still gotten charged for threatening with a chemical weapon or something dumb.

Long as someone crys wolf you get hung in the long run regardless of the actual truths.

We just need to go back to horse and wagons and start again. Things were much simpler back then.
 
That's the way it is....BUT......

johngalt said:
Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?
Click to expand...

Like it or not (NOT) that is a dilemma that we are in and it will just be worse if we act out of frustration and fear just like 'they' expect us to do.
 
That's exactly it...

Mule Packer said:
Hmmm. This is one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. As was alluded to earlier, those "peaceful protestors" were baiting that guy. They wanted him to defend his property, hoping he'd make the faux pas of bringing a gun to the party. Now, let's just assume that he hadn't done what he did. Let's just assume he stayed in the house. It's a pretty good bet they not only would've come up on his porch, but they would've also either started pounding on the door or possibly thrown something through the window, provoking him to come out and confront them. Then when he came out waving the gun, they would've had him again.

Like I said, one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. Can't win either way. You can bet your bobsled that the whole thing was planned to the "t."
Click to expand...

This isn't 'random'. It's planned to put a person in a doubtful position, make them feel threatened by 'peaceful' protesters and end up looking like a criminal.

One time a lady in our neighbor walked into her kitchen to find about five people standing around talking. Legally, she had a perfect right to shoot them all (in this state) but then she would have paid the price. Were they threatening her, they were only standing around talking? Do you shoot somebody in your house that just standing around talking and not making threatening moves? Of course she called the police and they cleared out, but she was very shaken and upset.

This was long ago, but the whole thing is designed to say, "What are you going to do about it?" I've seen and been the example of similar forms of harassment.

What we are seeing now is larger, more organized version of this, designed to upset and destabilize people.

Another story: My son and I went to a Burger King right down the road that was started to get a reputation for 'belonging' to the troublemakers. We were sitting and I looked out the window and there was a group of people some leaning on my car and talking up a storm, but throwing glances my way. I figured they would just go away and didn't want to take their bait. When I went outside my locked car rear door was wide open. I quit going to that Burger King and it soon closed. Absolutely senseless, but designed to worry and intimidate.

Oh,one more. I looked out my front window to see a crowd of about five people (again) standing about three feet into my yard, having a big conversation. I could tell they were hoping I'd take offense and come out and say something, but I didn't take that bait either.

You know, after putting these together they sound like the same people and from the way they acted and the inclusion of a couple of distinctive females. It seems they were making a living out of doing this stuff and now it's a large part of the population.
 
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rwsmith said:
Another story: My son and I went to a Burger King right down the road that was started to get a reputation for 'belonging' to the troublemakers. We were sitting and I looked out the window and there was a group of people some leaning on my car and talking up a storm, but throwing glances my way. I figured they would just go away and didn't want to take their bait. When I went outside my locked car rear door was wide open. I quit going to that Burger King and it soon closed. Absolutely senseless, but designed to worry and intimidate.
Click to expand...

Maybe they saw your door was open and were guarding your car for you? :rolleyes:
 
Yes, the police are slow to get involved now, can't blame them to much. Maybe a good time to let the dogs out?
 

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This whole situation has honestly made me consider taking up Bee Keeping. My parents actually used to have a hive of their own in the backyard, so I could ask them for details about it.

Something tells me that this sort of people wouldn't be quite so bold about loitering in a yard with a bee hive in it, or at the very least would be inclined to leave once the bees became agitated.

Fortunately, nobody has come protesting anywhere near my neighborhood yet and doubtfully ever will, unless they suddenly decide that suburban living is somehow oppressive towards them, which I honestly cannot rule out entirely.
 
In other words, in accordance with my own ideals that the acceptance of personal responsibility is the defining characteristic of adulthood, those who adopt nihilistic beliefs and develop persecution complexes are intellectually, emotionally, and morally stunted to the point of perpetual immaturity. Its called a Developmentally Regressed Person Sir. Folks who have not Developed the Mental Capacity to make reasonable Thinking Process Via Organic Brain Damage , reducing cognitive skills or Lacking basic Education and Critical Thinking skills. America has many in this Sad Condition Today.
 
There needs to be a clear " Bill of Rights " on Federal level that are not open to political meddling. American citizens should be able to defend themselves, family and property without fear of prosecution. There are charges being brought against people that DAs know won't hold up in higher courts. They do it for personal gain and to advance the agenda. They are sick because they seem to try to ruin people even though they know they are innocent. I think they do this to intimidate others. There is remedies against these political Tin Horns but the problem is in some places the system is dominated by them. That's what we are seeing in the
big cities now.
 
I remember watching the video closer to when this happened. IIRC, he is a retired LAPD Captain, and he ought to know better than to have applied such poor tactics.

I have a fence that is padlocked. My property is also posted. The uninvited should NEVER EVER feel welcome at your home. Period. Before the fence was replaced and extended a few years ago, I NEVER opened the door to someone I did not know. I yelled through it, and it had to be done vigorously because of the dogs (Rotts) barking. I have no concern at all about offending someone; they have no right not to be offended in the first place, and to the extent that social niceties argue against being abrasive all the time, they have forfeited any expectation of being treated gently by entering into my space. I am in the upper size brackets for caucasian males; I have an unwelcoming demeanor, and I do not value people highly anyway. The vast majority of the time, I value critters of all types more highly than most people.

I've been in the criminal justice system as a student, cop and prosecutor for well over 40 years. I can turn on the mean at the flip of a switch, and if people leave my presence unhappy, thinking I'm a meanie and crying, that's their problem. I am not gratuitously unpleasant, but I don't hold back once it is time. "Ask, tell, make" - and that process should not take more than 2-3 seconds. Look and act hesitant, and you are prey to the ill-doers.
 
Richard Simmons said:
As I understand it, at least here in VA unless your property is posted or an individual has been informed verbally or in writing, simply being on someone's property without permission is not "trespassing".
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I didn't think I needed to spell it out when I wrote earlier but the property was apparently not posted. We expect people to come to our front door. USPS, FED EX, UPS, pizza delivery, door dash, grocery delivery, Fuller Brush Man, Jehovah Witnesses. You can send unwanted callers away. In the absence of signage, barriers, I don't see that they've committed a crime, if they leave when asked.
If they don't leave when asked, it becomes trespass. I they damage the property it becomes vandalism. If they force their way inside, it become B & E.
 
Mrnurse said:
In other words, in accordance with my own ideals that the acceptance of personal responsibility is the defining characteristic of adulthood, those who adopt nihilistic beliefs and develop persecution complexes are intellectually, emotionally, and morally stunted to the point of perpetual immaturity. Its called a Developmentally Regressed Person Sir. Folks who have not Developed the Mental Capacity to make reasonable Thinking Process Via Organic Brain Damage , reducing cognitive skills or Lacking basic Education and Critical Thinking skills. America has many in this Sad Condition Today.
Click to expand...

You know what's really sad? I can't even tell whether you're being serious or sarcastic because yet another problem present in modern day society is obsessive clinical thinking in which everything must be identified, classified, categorized and compartmentalized to the point that they practically invent new psychological conditions on a daily basis in a desperate attempt to rationalize the irrational behavior of certain people.

Honestly, I cannot comprehend for the life of me what sort of logic, reasoning, or rationality is the basis for the persistent wasted effort to rationalize the irrational behavior of others by classifying their behavior as a symptom of some sort of psychological condition. However, unlike these obsessive clinical thinkers, I'm not nearly obtuse nor arrogant enough to classify any behavior I don't understand as symptoms of "Obsessive® Clinical© Thinking Disorder™" (OCTD™ for short, and I'll trade mark that term immediately because I want a Nickel anytime someone else uses it) so rather than pretentiously presume that anyone whose behavior, motivations, and reasoning defies my own narrow comprehension is brain damaged or suffering from some sort of learning disability, I'm going to assume until provent otherwise on an individual case-by-case basis that they are in fact physically/intellectually capable of making their own life decisions, regardless of whether or not I personally agree with them or understand them.

Oh, and before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy here, I am fully aware that I am essentially arbitrarily labeling an entire group of individuals as nihilists or diagnosing their behavior as symptoms of a persecution complex, but I am doing so unofficially under the authority of no one, do not claim to be a psychiatrist, and am by no means claiming that my observational blanket assessment is objectively accurate to every single individual who has ever attended a protest, nor that every single individual with nihilistic beliefs/tendencies is necessarily capable of comprehending the flaws of their own logic, regardless of whether that be due to lack of experience, lack of maturity, or lack of cognitive function. The behavior of mankind in general is, was, and most likely forever shall remain a mystery to me.
 
You know what's really sad? I can't even tell whether you're being serious or sarcastic because yet another problem present in modern day society is obsessive clinical thinking in which everything must be identified, classified, categorized and compartmentalized to the point that they practically invent new psychological conditions on a daily basis in a desperate attempt to rationalize the irrational behavior of certain people. Ahhhh Hummm Spent 5 years Civilian ER Psych RN/NP then 20 Years for Vets on a TBI/PTSD unit, Folks who have real issues that need help unlike the drug seeking Civilian Ilk I saw 90% of the time. SO... read my comments and make any observation to my comments as you like. Most people today are self medicated to excess, are selfish and self interested.... I would say DSM Vol 4 ( now Vol 5) Axis 2 Personality disorder. No im not writing for Narcotics or Anti-Psychotics.... there you have it.
 
Forte Smitten Wesson said:
Another time he was making lunch and someone suspicious came pounding aggressively on the door, so my brother answered the door with his Taurus Judge in hand, to which the guy immediately threw his hands up in the air and shouted; "I'M FRIENDLY! I'M FRIENDLY!" So my brother replied; "Then this isn't for you." After that the guy explained that he was just looking for a pet that had run off in the area and was only pounding at the door because he was panicking. The story seems to have been the truth as well, because the neighbors confirmed that he had come knocking at their doors asking if they had seen his pet, so if he were looking to do something, then he probably would have attacked one of the elderly neighbors who didn't answer the door armed with a hand cannon.
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I'm suspicious of these looking for pet lost stories. Sorry. Did he leave his phone number? Too many of these cases are linked to breakins. Keep him outside, take his number, id his vehicle, call the Police "suspicious person". Make the report, create a paper trail.
 
flagman1776 said:
I'm suspicious of these looking for pet lost stories. Sorry. Did he leave his phone number? Too many of these cases are linked to breakins. Keep him outside, take his number, id his vehicle, call the Police "suspicious person". Make the report, create a paper trail.
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, he did leave his number, both his home and his cell. He also came back a second time a few days later to ask if we'd seen or heard any sign of it, and he wanted to set up a cages with trapdoors and his cat's favorite food as bait inside around the neighborhood. (I believe he stappled some missing posters on telephone poles too.)
So yeah, he was just a legitimately worried guy with a lost pet. I've had family pets run off as well, so I don't blame him for being frantic about it either, especially when the neighborhood has a lot of woods surrounding it in which predatory animals like Coyotes roam.

Also, for the record, this happened a few years ago, so this wasn't a recent occurrence.
 
You SHOULD......

johngalt said:
Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?
Click to expand...

You should still call the police. There's a record of it that shows that you aren't taking the law into your own hands. There's even a chance that they may come take care of things.
 
Speaking of funny coincidences...

I just finished watching season 3 of "Man in the High Castle" (yes, I'm behind...). For those who don't know, it is an alternate history show on Amazon where Germany and Japan won WWII and are occupying the U.S. The show takes place in approximately 1965.

In the last episode, the Germans are finalizing their plans to erase America's history. They tore down statues of the founding fathers, destroyed the Statue of Liberty, melted down the Liberty Bell, and burned the history books.

Meanwhile the hitler youth are rioting in the streets, vandalizing, burning, and looting. Assaulting anyone who is old enough to have been around before the war or expresses any dissent.

The leadership is watching all of this going on and one of them asked - should we put a stop to this? The answer: "No, this is their night. Let them celebrate".

Sound familiar? The irony is Antifa claims the name of their group is an abbreviation of "anti fascist".
 
They are pushing the gray area.....

Drm50 said:
There needs to be a clear " Bill of Rights " on Federal level that are not open to political meddling. American citizens should be able to defend themselves, family and property without fear of prosecution. There are charges being brought against people that DAs know won't hold up in higher courts. They do it for personal gain and to advance the agenda. They are sick because they seem to try to ruin people even though they know they are innocent. I think they do this to intimidate others. There is remedies against these political Tin Horns but the problem is in some places the system is dominated by them. That's what we are seeing in the
big cities now.
Click to expand...

They are pushing the gray area of what is defined as 'trespassing' and 'threatening behavior. They aren't dumb and they know exactly what they are doing. If they lose some people in this process, no problem, they are martyrs and an excuse for more 'demonstrating' that they are being treated unrighteously. We are in for a bad time and are going to have to play this smart or everybody is going to be worse off for it. I think that the ball and the cell cameras are rolling.
 
^^^^ There you go.

We need to be united on this. Look at the specific set of circumstances that we are ALL under. Arguing about the psychology of the situation doesn't help anything or anybody. Our principles are being attacked. Effective thinking of how to solve the problem is called for to bring this thing to a favorable, or acceptable, end.
 
rwsmith said:
They are pushing the gray area of what is defined as 'trespassing' and 'threatening behavior. They aren't dumb and they know exactly what they are doing. If they lose some people in this process, no problem, they are martyrs and an excuse for more 'demonstrating' that they are being treated unrighteously. We are in for a bad time and are going to have to play this smart or everybody is going to be worse off for it. I think that the ball and the cell cameras are rolling.
Click to expand...

I think those groups should be subject to RICO. They are organizing a criminal enterprise (rioting/looting) and then bailing out their members in the few places that are actually arresting them. Sounds like racketeering to me.
 
^^^^ There you go.

We need to be united on this. Look at the specific set of circumstances that we are ALL under. Arguing about the psychology of the situation doesn't help anything or anybody. Our principles are being attacked. Effective thinking of how to solve the problem is called for to bring this thing to a favorable, or acceptable, end.
 
rwsmith said:
We need to be united on this. Look at the specific set of circumstances that we are ALL under. Arguing about the psychology of the situation doesn't help anything or anybody. Our principles are being attacked. Effective thinking of how to solve the problem is called for to bring this thing to a favorable, or acceptable, end.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there is no simple solution, and no amount of planning at this juncture can possibly result in a meaningful resolution. All we can do is be smart, be vigilant, ride out the storm, and only act if absolutely necessary. (i.e. in Self-Defense.)

Like it or not, the odds are not in favor of the average law-abiding citizen right now and things are going to get worse before they can get better.

I foresee the situation playing out as follows... There will be a steady escalation of civil unrest leading up to the election, followed by a tremendous surge once Trump inevitably gets elected for a second term, but with the election secured, Trump won't pull any punches and will most likely deploy the National Guard, things will go about as nicely as you'd imagine by that point, but ultimately the riots will end and those involved will be held accountable for their crimes, with certain organizations being rightfully designated as terrorists.

Hopefully I'm wrong about this, but that's just the way I see things going, and believe it or not, that's me being optimistic, as obviously it could go much worse than that.

Personally, I would recommend that anyone who lives in or nearby a major metropolitan city take a nice little vacation to somewhere quieter this November, perhaps a trip out to the country. Because regardless of who gets elected, bad people will use the situation as an excuse to cause trouble, especially knowing that the police will be busy.
 
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