another gun shop find .32 S&W 3", Pre M30 * Pictures! *

Vfeldman

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Went to my FFL holder/ small gun shop to pick up the Ruger Blackhawk anniversary 44 Mag I had ordered last week. Sitting in his case was a S&W model 30. It is chambered in 32 S&W. It was a 4 screw, diamond grips, It had a flat latch; serial number is 636189. Looked like a 3” barrel, fixed sights, bluing was in very nice shape.

What can anyone tell me about this gun? When made? Any idea as to value? They had it at $399.99 and said it was on consignment so they had no room to budge on the price. I offered them $375 out the door but it was a no go.
 
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is it a "no-dash"? they pop up a lot less often than -1s, it seems like. i got a mint-in-box 30 (no dash) with all paperwork and tools 2 years ago for 350.00. it is a 2 inch, and i thought i got a real deal. i sure wouldn't sell it for anywhere near that! they are sweet little guns.
 
Was it actually marked as a model 30 in the crane?
For that price, model number or not, it seems to be a fair price in the condition as you described.
They are neat little guns.
 
Was it actually marked as a model 30 in the crane?
For that price, model number or not, it seems to be a fair price in the condition as you described.
They are neat little guns.

Only thing in the crane was assembly numbers. It was a 4 screw. I am pretty sure I am going to go back next week & see if it is still here.
 
Got it today!!

Went to pick it up today and got a 15% discount to boot! Ended up getting it for $330!!

Pulled the grips and found matching numbers.

322.jpg

321.jpg
 
I agree: nice score.

Can anyone tell me how you distinguish a square butt Model 30 (or Pre-30) from a Model 31 or Pre-31 (.32 Regulation Police)?

The SCSW M31 write-up mentions a wider smooth trigger than is reported in the Model 30 section, but I don't know if that is meant to be diagnostic.
 
I agree: nice score.

Can anyone tell me how you distinguish a square butt Model 30 (or Pre-30) from a Model 31 or Pre-31 (.32 Regulation Police)?

The SCSW M31 write-up mentions a wider smooth trigger than is reported in the Model 30 section, but I don't know if that is meant to be diagnostic.

The best way to tell the correct designation of the 32s other than physical characteristics, is found on the end of the box when the original box exists with the gun. I have one in the box just like the gun in this thread and the label reads Reg Police. So it's a pre mod 31 with sg butt and 3" barrel; Mod of 1953 2nd improvement (not official designation but descriptive of what it is).

A 32 Handejector (pre-mod 30) would usually have a round butt; sometimes sq butt, but both with a 2" barrel which is what makes them pre Mod 30s. This is based on box labels.

The SCSW is a great book, don't get me wrong, but of all the sections in it, the .32s and '50s I frames in general are the most screwed up. Some serious editing is needed!

The pre war +1/4" barrel lengths (3 1/4", 4 1/4", etc.) are all blended together with the even inch barrel lengths (3", 4", etc.) of post war guns in both the pre model # chapter and the #'d Models chapter, therefor confusing.

Also, references to Improved I frames make no differentiation between 1st Imp. I frames (change from leaf to coil mainsprings) and 2nd Imp. I frames (Mod of 1953).

Pay little attention to the comments on the triggers. Smooth triggers were long gone by the time of the Mod 1953 2nd improved I frames. They didn't come back until the '80s in the form of the .312 wide smooth 'combat' style triggers.

These 32's get even more muddled after 1974 when the Models 30 and 31 were merged.
 
Jim, thank you. That's very helpful. And thank you too for understanding that my question, despite the way I phrased it, was about pre-30s and pre-31s. Obviously one can distinguish a Model 30 from a Model 31 by the yoke stamping. I had a suspicion that the gun mentioned in the original post and picured in post No. 7 would have been considered a Regulation Police by the factory, and I'm interested to hear that you have one so labeled on the box.

Have you considered writing an article for the SWCA Journal about the J-frame distinctions you have drawn in recent posts? Or perhaps the administration here would open to the idea of your posting a commentary about these matters.
 
Have you considered writing an article for the SWCA Journal about the J-frame distinctions you have drawn in recent posts? Or perhaps the administration here would open to the idea of your posting a commentary about these matters.


Thank you David for the confidence. But frankly although I'm willing to share my observations, I'm no expert. It's one thing to contrast the "book learning" and actual study of the guns from over the years. And I admit a profound interest and study of the evolution of the '50s era small frames but can hardly guarantee accuracy and I'm sure there are experts out there who know more than I do.
 
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It looks like a 5 screw rather than a 4 screw model.

Yes it does look like a 5 screw because it has a 4 screw sideplate. However, it does not have the screw in front of the trigger guard. The small frames of the '50s were the 1st models to eliminate the trigger guard screw when S&W introduced the egg shaped trigger guard of the Model of 1953 (2nd improved I frame).

So there were never any 5 screw 2nd improvement I frames (Pre Models 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, or 35) or 1st improvement J frames (Pre Model 36, 37, 38, 40, 42, etc.) for that matter ( i.e. the .38 Special "Chief's Special" after the original 5 screw 'Baby' J frames which had the rounder trigger guard with screw and smaller I frame size round butt).

This of course does not coincide with the K and N frames which were all 5 screw frames during that same period up to circa 1956 -57. Then the K and N frames became 4 screw frames with the elimination of the upper sideplate screw 1st. The I and J frames became 3 screw frames during this same period when their upper sideplate screw was eliminated. K and N frames didn't become 3 screw frames until the elimination of the trigger guard screw in circa 1961-62 which was associated with the -1, -2, -3 or -4 engineering change, depending on the Model.

Confusing enough?
 
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Confusing enough?

Yes, but maybe I can help. :D

All five-screw guns are five-screw guns in the same way.

All three-screw guns are three-screw guns in the same way.

Four-screw guns are four-screw guns in a variety of different ways, following the frame and timing variations that Jim laid out. (And don't forget the pre-five screw four-screw guns of the early 1900s that didn't have a screw to cover the housing for the cylinder lock spring and plunger; there's an instance where engineering actually added a screw rather than taking it away.)
 
Excellent points. And to add one more wrinkle, the 4 screws are back! The 500 and 460 X frames added back the top sideplate screw. The heritage model 44 and the classic models may have also. Too busy to go look.
 
Also, some of the J's have a BUG screw, a small screw helping to hold the top sideplate screw in place. We don't call those guns 6 screws!
 
Also, some of the J's have a BUG screw, a small screw helping to hold the top sideplate screw in place. We don't call those guns 6 screws!

Hi Buff,

You're right. I've heard some refer to them as 6 screws. They were only used on some early airweights. Apparently the factory had some concern about the top sideplate screw working loose in the aluminum frames.
 
OKAY, LET'S SEE IF I'VE GOT THIS RIGHT...

So, Vfeldman's excellent find is a pre-model 31, 4-screw, square-
butt?
I'm looking at a 5-screw, round-butt, 32S&W Long, 6-shot, and the
only way to tell it from a pre-model 31, is barrel length, and screw
count? Maybe I should have read this before I did a round-trip to Chicago!
My pre-Model 30 is S/N 5943xx with round front sight, and 2" bbl.
Have I got it right?
TACC1
 

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