BigWaylon
Member
Very nice. I guess the combination of lighting and cutting makes it look white in the pic? You didn't do anything else to it, right?
Another Happy Member Of The SBR Family
- Thread starter RedNeck Jim
- Start date
OP
RedNeck Jim
Member
Straight from Orion. I have read there are things you can do to darken but I am fine with it as is.
dullh
Member
I was originally going to go with the Spectre II. Two months and no can arrived at dealer yet...BUT...he had a Sparrow in stock. I got to touch and take it apart. SOLD. Sent my Form 4 via Snail Mail today so now starts yet ANOTHER wait...
That Sparrow was so sweet in it's disassembly and weight that I had to have it! When my barrel gets back I'm going to go visit the can, haven't shipped my lower yet to get engraved but it's going to Orion next Monday. I'm glad you posted pics now I know Orion is the way to go...
That Sparrow was so sweet in it's disassembly and weight that I had to have it! When my barrel gets back I'm going to go visit the can, haven't shipped my lower yet to get engraved but it's going to Orion next Monday. I'm glad you posted pics now I know Orion is the way to go...
I'm not entirely clear on the SBR/cut down process, can you elaborate a bit?
Submit form 1 with specified length +200, form gets returned.
Then you send your existing barrel out to ADCO and have them cut and send back? Did you use a trust, can they send directly back to a trust F1 out of state?
Then you sent the lower to be engraved somewhere in-state?
Submit form 1 with specified length +200, form gets returned.
Then you send your existing barrel out to ADCO and have them cut and send back? Did you use a trust, can they send directly back to a trust F1 out of state?
Then you sent the lower to be engraved somewhere in-state?
BigWaylon
Member
dullh
Member
It's intimidating, but actually very simple:
1) Efile Form 1 on ATF website. This is ONLY for trusts. Mine came back in 35 days. If you apply as individual, you must mail it, because you have to get your CLEO to sign it and fingerprint you. Mailing it takes around 6 months for approval.
2) Do NOT send your barrel to be cut UNTIL your form 1 comes back stamped and approved. Doing so puts you in an area called "constructive intent", where you essentially intended to "manufacture" an unregistered short barrel rifle.
3) Once your form 1 is stamped, approved and in your possession, send your barrel off to the machine shop of your choice who does the cut/thread/crown work. ADCO is awesome; you don't have to use ADCO, but they are recommended due to their high quality of work and good turn-around time.
4) While your barrel is gone ship your lower to have it engraved. Most places will not engrave polymer lowers, but Orion Arms in Minnesota will. $35 is what they charge.
You do not have to worry about shipping/receiving your barrel - it's just a barrel! You can send it wherever it needs to go and get it back no problem. Same with the lower - since it's not changing ownership you can send it directly to Orion Arms and get it directly back...same as if you sent a gun back to the factory for warranty work or to a custom shop.
Hope this helps.
BigWaylon
Member
#1...to be clear, EForms is not for trusts only. It is for entities only. You can file one as a corp/LLC as well.
#4...a lot of people get the engraving done while while waiting for F1 approval. There are pros and cons for every option of when to do it, but engraving it beforehand is completely fine as far as legality. For that matter, you could engrave every Title I firearm you own with the same info.
little_airwolf
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Wow For the first time Im happy to be a Canadian gun owner. We can shorten our rifles to 4.5" max without paperwork! However we can only shoot our 15-22s at certified ranges.
Majorlk
Member
What is a certified range?
Dullh, that was pretty much exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
The only question I have on that is, do you send your entire upper to ADCO or just the barrel? I don't really have a good vice and haven't installed a barrel/gas block myself. The same with the OP's rail that had been cut down, did ADCO (or will they) do that also?
The only question I have on that is, do you send your entire upper to ADCO or just the barrel? I don't really have a good vice and haven't installed a barrel/gas block myself. The same with the OP's rail that had been cut down, did ADCO (or will they) do that also?
OP
RedNeck Jim
Member
You normally take the barrel off yourself, unless you want to pay an additional $50. With a 15-22, there is no gas block... just the barrel nut. This is what I bought & actually feel it is important you understand how to take the gun apart.
Barrel Vise Jaws and Barrel Nut Wrench (Pro) Combo for the Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 [BVJ-1 & BNW-PRO - COMBO] - $44.00 Tacticool22, Parts and Accessories for .22 Caliber Firearms
Looking at their website, I don't see where they will cut a handguard. It would be much cheaper for you to buy the Tacticool kit & take the upper to a local shop or friend that works with tools. When you take the barrel nut off, the handguard pops right off, as that nut holds both the barrel & the handguard on. The handguard cuts very easy with a bandsaw & since you will be cutting off several inches, you can make some test cuts, starting on the end. When you are satisfied you can do it properly, then just move to the proper location.
If you do this, it is very easy but keep one thing in mind. USE THE VISE JAWS. Only clamp the barrel in the vise. If you clamp the upper, you will harm the polymer upper & likely destroy it. This is the same advise if you remove the flash hider. If you have the threaded barrel version, that flash hider has to come off first anyway.
Any chance someone would be willing to share some info on exactly how they filled out the form 1 on the e-file site? I've seen a couple of help guides, but it still seems somewhat complex. I already have a trust setup though. I'm thinking the 4.5" ADCO cutdown with the SilencerCo threads would be an awesome option. I think I might even have a local engraver lined up (who happens to be a Class III dealer)
BigWaylon
Member
If this guide doesn't help you out...you might be better off just buying a 22 pistol.
(or filing a paper form)Read through it once or twice...then log into EForms and try it yourself. If you still have questions, let me know.
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OP
RedNeck Jim
Member
Be careful. Your "normal" firearm engravers will not touch a 15-22 because of the receiver being made of polymer, not the metal of a regular firearm. Laser engraving melts the polymer & makes a mess. Orion still uses "old " technology & uses cutters as opposed to lasers but even then, the polymer causes some issues as to clarity of the engrave. Just be real careful in allowing just anyone to work on your gun & make sure they know the specs required.
dullh
Member
On the 15-22, it's a simple matter of removing the barrel nut and sliding the barrel out the back of the upper receiver. If you don't have a barrel nut wrench I am sure a LGS would have one.
If you send the entire upper he may charge a dis/reassembly fee!
I cut down my own handguard...I used one I got from BigWaylon for a good deal...
And BigWaylon...Entities can efile too I know, but I would imagine most on here would be inquiring/filing as individuals, so I didn't mention that...and yes you can get the lower engraving done while you wait for the form to come back approved, no problem...just don't cut that barrel down until stamped form is back!
OP
RedNeck Jim
Member
I filed as a corporation. Our family business is a closely held corporation, so using it as the entity made it real easy... and cheap.
That guide doesn't look that bad actually. Thanks
Since I was considering a 4.5" barrel, I'm assuming that's what goes in the barrel length field? (Note, I saw where one guy said his bolt sometimes fails to lock back on an empty mag with a 4.5, anyone had this problem?)
I also read where the length (for whatever reason) is the Longest (with the stock fully extended?)
As far as reason, I know the guide says it depends on the state but "All Lawful Reasons" seems to be pretty standard?
It would be nice to be able to shoot my CCI MM subsonic
While I'm thinking about it, isn't the 15-22 serial number on that little metal plaque? Does that "count" as far as engraving the serial for the trust or does the engraving have to be done directly on the lower?
Since I was considering a 4.5" barrel, I'm assuming that's what goes in the barrel length field? (Note, I saw where one guy said his bolt sometimes fails to lock back on an empty mag with a 4.5, anyone had this problem?)
I also read where the length (for whatever reason) is the Longest (with the stock fully extended?)
As far as reason, I know the guide says it depends on the state but "All Lawful Reasons" seems to be pretty standard?
It would be nice to be able to shoot my CCI MM subsonic
While I'm thinking about it, isn't the 15-22 serial number on that little metal plaque? Does that "count" as far as engraving the serial for the trust or does the engraving have to be done directly on the lower?
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Yes, 4.5" is what you put on the barrel length field.
Overall length is measured with the stock extended.
All lawful reasons works unless your state requires something specific. I seem to remember there is at least one state where you need to put something like "In accordance with statute xx.xxx" or something like that.
The 15-22 serial number is what you must put in the serial number field on the form 1 since it already exists as a firearm. The engraving requirements are the same for nfa or non firearms, so that serial number will work.
Overall length is measured with the stock extended.
All lawful reasons works unless your state requires something specific. I seem to remember there is at least one state where you need to put something like "In accordance with statute xx.xxx" or something like that.
The 15-22 serial number is what you must put in the serial number field on the form 1 since it already exists as a firearm. The engraving requirements are the same for nfa or non firearms, so that serial number will work.
OP
RedNeck Jim
Member
This is some of the info I have on my form 1 for my 15-22:
4b Short Barrel Rifle
4c 22 LR
4d M&P 15-22
4e 4.5
4f 22.25
4i Sporting and Collection Purposes
On 4h, you will not need any number. Just put the entity name followed by the city & state. The info in this field is what must be engraved on your lower. Note my pic above of the engraving.
I will state the overall length is very confusing. Logic tells me, since we are talking about making a gun short, the government would want to know how short it could possibly be. However big brother wants the longest possible length, stock extended. Go figure! If you Google this, you will get all type of conflicting answers. Just do the overall length with stock extended & you will be good to go.
4b Short Barrel Rifle
4c 22 LR
4d M&P 15-22
4e 4.5
4f 22.25
4i Sporting and Collection Purposes
On 4h, you will not need any number. Just put the entity name followed by the city & state. The info in this field is what must be engraved on your lower. Note my pic above of the engraving.
I will state the overall length is very confusing. Logic tells me, since we are talking about making a gun short, the government would want to know how short it could possibly be. However big brother wants the longest possible length, stock extended. Go figure! If you Google this, you will get all type of conflicting answers. Just do the overall length with stock extended & you will be good to go.
OP
RedNeck Jim
Member
So far, I have not had any issues with the bolt locking back. I guess it might be possible if you had such a short barrel but did not use a suppressor. The suppressor increases back pressure, which helps in cycling the action.
Also, I shortened my bolt catch spring a long time ago. I consider this to be a rather important mod to the 15-22. Might not be necessary for all, it doesn't hurt anything plus helps those having issues with the bolt not locking back. Point being, if anyone has this issue, SBR or not, this should be the first step to solve the issue.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...-sbr-lever-bolt-lock-back-problem-solved.html
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