Another little problem with renewable energy?

[ameridaddy]

Bottom line for me is let's see all the numbers, from mine to disposal for all the transportation and power system options. Neither hidebound resistance to change nor a rush to feel good pie in the sky is a proper way to go, when the well-being of billions of people is at stake.
Meanwhile, here's a little something to lighten things up:
Watch Saturday Night Live Highlight: New Mercedes - NBC.com

 

[bigwheelzip]

Instead we should all be interested in learning about the wider range of options with an open mind and an eye to what's in *our* interests ...

Good post.

Speaking of options, the first piping design job I ever worked was Brayton Point, the largest coal-fired power station in New England (still remember the fear walking the high open-grating walkways in the boiler house). It's been decommissioned, and it's power grid connection is to be used for the Mayflower offshore wind-power project.




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[UncleEd]

One thing that stands out in
this thread is the seeming
joy that "green" has problems.
And that joy continues by not
seeing any good from "green"
in the future of the U.S.

Besides, let other countries
develop the technology for
the future be it Europe as
a whole, Russia, China,
Japan or even Iran.

To borrow a sentiment from
a movie, "America is not a
country; it's just a business."
And right now the fossil fuel
industries are THE business.

 

[ladder13]

Time for the tried and true words to live by, from the only source of truth.

"And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye"

 

[Jessie]

What was the replacement cost?

I can't remember but with inflation it wasn't any cheaper.

 

[LVSteve]

Two things kept us from investing in that a few years ago.

First, NC / Duke Energy (at least in our area) won't let us have an off the grip capability with a storage battery; and

Second, they will only pay us half the going rate for any electricity we put into the grid, and they restrict the amount of cells we can have, so that we can't really produce enough to generate more than we theoretically use.

When I ran the numbers, I found that by the time we actually paid the system off through reduced electric bills (not eliminated, just reduced, and also at the mercy of potential fees and fee increases) we'd be at the end of life of the system, and have to replace it.

Until they make it economical for home owners, through lower costs, better technology and a more reasonable business model for buying and selling solar electricity from consumers it's just not in our interests to invest in it.

I know many here won't want to hear this, but the energy businesses have to be regulated so that we, as individuals, can become energy independent. It's the only way to go, we have to get away from monolithic energy. If not, we are screwed in the long term. I say that because although the fossil fuel probably won't run out in my lifetime, it will run out at some point. Just remember, unlike the movie, cold fusion has yet to be invented.

 

[Narragansett]

It seems that there are quite a few photovoltaic solar panels reaching the end of their useful lives and now require some attention to recovery, collection, storage, transportation, disposal, or recycling. Perhaps some conflicts exist in how to deal with hazardous waste.

Certainly just a few unintended consequences:

California went big on rooftop solar. Now that's a problem for landfills

Interesting reading.

I posted that article on my Facebook page the other day. I know that here in RI the disposal fee of solar panels is about 1350.00/ton. Our last Govenor ( Raimondo) now Commerce Secretary for Biden put solar panel farms on hundreds of acres all over the state.
Can't wait for the replacement cost of those things. Just one more example of not being able to control our technology

 

[Bald1]

I love S&W revolvers - carried them for decades, not years. But today when I leave the house I'll have a Shield 45 tucked away. It's as powerful and reliable as my treasured revolvers.

Technology changes, and what works best at lowest cost eventually wins.

That's the point…… Nobody seems willing to acknowledge the "TOTAL COST". That bill is just now coming due.
We'll all have a say in November. Then again 24 months after that.

 

[9mmPatriot]

We were better off with coal fired power plants, IMHO.



And then there's the need to get rid of the old blades....
Graveyard of the green giants | Wind Energy News


Hundreds of old wind turbine blades in field near Sidney, NE

 

[bigwheelzip]

I posted that article on my Facebook page the other day. I know that here in RI the disposal fee of solar panels is about 1350.00/ton. Our last Govenor ( Raimondo) now Commerce Secretary for Biden put solar panel farms on hundreds of acres all over the state.

Can't wait for the replacement cost of those things. Just one more example of not being able to control our technology

No free rides. After heavy rains had Duke Power coal ash ponds collapse into rivers in the Carolinas, they have been forced to move their unlined ash ponds here to lined facilities away from rivers. Cost here in NC/SC to be about 9 billion dollars.


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[ladder13]

We were better off with coal fired power plants, IMHO.



And then there's the need to get rid of the old blades....
Graveyard of the green giants | Wind Energy News


Hundreds of old wind turbine blades in field near Sidney, NE


Hundreds of old wind turbine blades in field near Sidney, NE

Dont expect them to dump that "green" mess in Jackson Hole, Marthas Vineyard, LaJolla, Fisher Island, etc etc.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

I have come to the conclusion that the whole green energy
thing is a giant scam.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

As long as the right people more more money, t does not matter what the rest have to live with.

 

[NFrameFred]

The most callous response /comparison I've heard is "Well, when the automobile came into use the buggy whip makers all just had to start doing something else", somehow conflating that with killing off entire industries, livelihoods, and forcing a genuine upheaval in lifestyles and the ability to survive for tens of thousands to millions of people, potentially decimating whole populations in some areas for a generation or more.


These "visionaries" who want to force these changes at all costs before they become naturally affordable by inevitable attrition and technological advancement because of 'chicken little' outlooks that have been telling us for over 50 years "the planet only has 10-15 years left".


"Green" has to come. But enthusiasm and wishful thinking for forcing it before its' time is not realistic or rational. I'm afraid certain viewpoints that have become used to the mantra that "government will have to just take care of those displaced until we catch up" have no clue as to the scale of the misery they are proposing. As if they really cared . . . .

 

[LVSteve]

The most callous response /comparison I've heard is "Well, when the automobile came into use the buggy whip makers all just had to start doing something else", somehow conflating that with killing off entire industries, livelihoods, and forcing a genuine upheaval in lifestyles and the ability to survive for tens of thousands to millions of people, potentially decimating whole populations in some areas for a generation or more.


These "visionaries" who want to force these changes at all costs before they become naturally affordable by inevitable attrition and technological advancement because of 'chicken little' outlooks that have been telling us for over 50 years "the planet only has 10-15 years left".


"Green" has to come. But enthusiasm and wishful thinking for forcing it before its' time is not realistic or rational. I'm afraid certain viewpoints that have become used to the mantra that "government will have too just take care of those displaced until we catch up" have no clue as to the scale of the misery they are proposing. As if they really cared . . . .

There is such a thing getting ahead of the issue. Whether this is the time or not is certainly up for debate.

 

[LVSteve]

As long as the right people more more money, t does not matter what the rest have to live with.

What a perfect description of what we are seeing in Vegas right now. They are building like mad while Lake Mead returns to desert. But so long as Jim Rhodes and his cronies get their money, it doesn't matter that we get sand running from the faucet without having tried to wait for a change back in the climate. "That's special" as they say in the South.

 

[UncleEd]

OK, let's just get to the bottom
line of things.

Fossil fuels make money.

Green energy makes money.

So just allow everyone to
make money.

Making money is the most
important concept.

 

[BB57]

No free rides. After heavy rains had Duke Power coal ash ponds collapse into rivers in the Carolinas, they have been forced to move their unlined ash ponds here to lined facilities away from rivers. Cost here in NC/SC to be about 9 billion dollars.


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I pay a share of that cost with every light bill and will be doing it for decades.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I surmise that you are saying that with tongue firmly planted in cheek………

Nope. It's true...........You NEVER get something for almost nothing.

 

[hsguy]

Recently noticed another article on wind turbines. Seems that those huge football field length things wear out after several years and must be replaced, but there is no current method for recycling the old blades. More unintended consequences.......................

Apparently not quite accurate, there is a use: Wind turbine blades recycled for cement, kept from landfills | STLPR

Apparently there may be money to be made also. Iberdrola sets up firm focused on recycling wind turbine blades