OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
I got it! Loud and clear.
another m&p 40 shield mag drop problem
- Thread starter cowboyfan628
- Start date
I got it! Loud and clear.
I have to agree that the forums and internet are blowing this out of proportion. I bought a 40 shield 3 months ago, After reading about the problems some people were having with them while others were saying its only a tiny problem, but I just love the features of the weapon so I took a chance. Since I bought I fire 100 rounds every weekend because frankly I got too use to a 9mm in the army and need the practice with a larger round in a smaller frame. I've only used the two magazines that came with it, a 6 round flat bottom, and the 7 round extended grip, using them off and on to see which one I like better for shooting before I buy a few extras.
I have loaded my weapon in multiple different ways, I loaded multiple magazines with the slide locked black and then chambered, out of paranoia that just shoving the magazine in there with the slide forward would cause this mysterious mag drop problem. Then after I became more comfortable with the internal workings of the weapon I began chambering a round, removing the magazine adding another round and then reinserting the magazine under the assumption this would cause a mag drop. It did not. The weapon still fired as intended and this is now how I carry my Shield 40 every day.
To date the only issues I have had with my Shield 40.
- pinched my thumb loading the 7rnd mag, these springs are strong when you first get them. Loading them full and letting them sit for a week helps loosen them up.
- I lost 10% of my brass because the ejection port throws those things a good 20 feet on occasion, which is a sign of a good ejection system and less chance of a spent round getting stuck.
- 2 failure to feeds in where the magazine would lock block as if the magazine was empty, but it was not. This was not a fault of the weapon but a fault of one particular kind of ammo I was trying. Never experienced this issue with any other types of ammo.
I can see this issue going both ways. It might be user error, it might not, it seems plausible that earlier Shield 40's might have had an issue with the mag release lever, possibly a loose or slightly warped frame that would allow the magazine to jar loose upon firing, could be the magazines themselves that were produced during early stages of the Shield 40, and these weapons will still be floating around there at gun shows and some gun dealers that don't check guns they purchase. The statistics show that the number of Shield 9's and 40's that S&W has sold compared to the view yet very vocal complaints about issues, shows us that this is a very very small percentage of the Shield 40's and is most logically due to a short term manufacturer error over a very small number of these particular handguns and this issue shouldn't be the first impression people get of the Shield 40, which is actually a very compact, slim, reliable weapon for conceal and carry.
If you do have a Shield 40 with mechanical issues you have my sympathy, but one flaw on a small number of guns should not represent that the entire company makes bad firearms. If a company didn't occasionally put out a weapon with some small issues I would be worried because that would suggest to me that they are not trying to produce new and improved models but just keep selling the same old thing, and we would still all be shooting 6 round revolvers if it wasn't for innovation and experimenting. If you really hate the weapon you purchased, sell or trade it to someone else and get something else, its not the end of the world, yet.
I have loaded my weapon in multiple different ways, I loaded multiple magazines with the slide locked black and then chambered, out of paranoia that just shoving the magazine in there with the slide forward would cause this mysterious mag drop problem. Then after I became more comfortable with the internal workings of the weapon I began chambering a round, removing the magazine adding another round and then reinserting the magazine under the assumption this would cause a mag drop. It did not. The weapon still fired as intended and this is now how I carry my Shield 40 every day.
To date the only issues I have had with my Shield 40.
- pinched my thumb loading the 7rnd mag, these springs are strong when you first get them. Loading them full and letting them sit for a week helps loosen them up.
- I lost 10% of my brass because the ejection port throws those things a good 20 feet on occasion, which is a sign of a good ejection system and less chance of a spent round getting stuck.
- 2 failure to feeds in where the magazine would lock block as if the magazine was empty, but it was not. This was not a fault of the weapon but a fault of one particular kind of ammo I was trying. Never experienced this issue with any other types of ammo.
I can see this issue going both ways. It might be user error, it might not, it seems plausible that earlier Shield 40's might have had an issue with the mag release lever, possibly a loose or slightly warped frame that would allow the magazine to jar loose upon firing, could be the magazines themselves that were produced during early stages of the Shield 40, and these weapons will still be floating around there at gun shows and some gun dealers that don't check guns they purchase. The statistics show that the number of Shield 9's and 40's that S&W has sold compared to the view yet very vocal complaints about issues, shows us that this is a very very small percentage of the Shield 40's and is most logically due to a short term manufacturer error over a very small number of these particular handguns and this issue shouldn't be the first impression people get of the Shield 40, which is actually a very compact, slim, reliable weapon for conceal and carry.
If you do have a Shield 40 with mechanical issues you have my sympathy, but one flaw on a small number of guns should not represent that the entire company makes bad firearms. If a company didn't occasionally put out a weapon with some small issues I would be worried because that would suggest to me that they are not trying to produce new and improved models but just keep selling the same old thing, and we would still all be shooting 6 round revolvers if it wasn't for innovation and experimenting. If you really hate the weapon you purchased, sell or trade it to someone else and get something else, its not the end of the world, yet.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
I did purchase this gun used from a local range . I did put 50 rounds through the gun with the extended mag because I was aware of the issues. I had no issues at first . I then took the gun to my gun range and shot about 200 rounds and that when I had the problems. Im not sure how old the gun is. Keep in mind the last 3 smith and wesson guns iI purchased I had to return because of problems.
I would love to get my hands on one of these 40 Shields that have mag drop problems to look at it more closely. Just from reading reports on it and tearing my own weapon down to the bare parts (which I do with every gun I buy first thing) then go over the parts and see exactly how it works before putting it back together, I feel pretty comfortable with how the M&P works and was designed.
Some guns, like the 1911 or standard model revolvers were designed around a free form system were parts could give and take to allow for tiny variables in things like ammo size, chambering. This is most noticeable in weapons like the AK47 where it was intended to give room for tiny flaws to continue working.
The M&P line is made more like a custom fit glove for your hand alone. There is no room for play inside the weapon and its designed to function one way and no other way, this is both good and bad. When it works it works flawlessly like a true precision machine, but it doesn't give way to those tiny variables like questionable ammo, or tiny manufacturing defects like a lip 1/50th of an inch to long or a feeder ramp that doesn't match up exactly with the magazine. This is most likely were the issues are coming from and from the sounds of reports and videos I have seen, the only reasons I can think of this happening besides User Error which everyone swears it is not, despite one video I watched were I kept asking myself who taught this guy how to shoot.
I suspect it might be a slight variation in the magazine slot, perhaps a small warp during manufacturing in the frame work that holds the magazine secure in the weapon is allowing for slight expansion when firing the weapon which allows it just enough room to jar the magazine loose. I see time and time again in these posts about people sending it to S&W for repairs and getting a new magazine back with the same problems. So maybe its not entirely the magazine and just personally adjusting the magazine might be a stop gap at best, when the problem is with the lower portion of the gun in the magazine well.
No one in their right mind can deny that the Shield doesn't work at all, when the issues are just a small portion of Shield 40 owners. If this is the case it was most likely a very small if not unnoticeable defect during manufacturing but was since fixed at some point. Maybe this defect only affected a few days of work, so there might be thousand or so of these defective handguns floating around on the market. The rest seem to be working fine though.
I'm sorry to hear your last 3 guns had to be sent back, that just seems unlucky. Every S&W firearm I have purchased, I have stripped down out of the box, inspected and put back together (Armorers habit) has never had any major issues and issues they did have I have identified as issues outside the gun, user error, magazine issues or ammo variations.
I find 90% of errors with a firearm is usually one of those 3, unless the weapon style is just known for needing to be broken in, like the 1911 because of the manner in which it is manufactured, the parts need to be beaten into place from use before they work together smoothly. Much like your favorite pair of jeans that feel more comfortable then stiff new pair your wife got you.
The M&P, much like most the newer polymer guns like Glock are designed around the tight fit system were they are designed to work with very little room for error. My father recently bought a Taurus PT 24/7 45acp, he tried to feed it some very questionable reload ammo and it would stove pipe every other round, he was so mad thinking he just bought a junk gun, but then we tried putting some more quality ammo through it and it fires wonderfully.
Some guns, like the 1911 or standard model revolvers were designed around a free form system were parts could give and take to allow for tiny variables in things like ammo size, chambering. This is most noticeable in weapons like the AK47 where it was intended to give room for tiny flaws to continue working.
The M&P line is made more like a custom fit glove for your hand alone. There is no room for play inside the weapon and its designed to function one way and no other way, this is both good and bad. When it works it works flawlessly like a true precision machine, but it doesn't give way to those tiny variables like questionable ammo, or tiny manufacturing defects like a lip 1/50th of an inch to long or a feeder ramp that doesn't match up exactly with the magazine. This is most likely were the issues are coming from and from the sounds of reports and videos I have seen, the only reasons I can think of this happening besides User Error which everyone swears it is not, despite one video I watched were I kept asking myself who taught this guy how to shoot.
I suspect it might be a slight variation in the magazine slot, perhaps a small warp during manufacturing in the frame work that holds the magazine secure in the weapon is allowing for slight expansion when firing the weapon which allows it just enough room to jar the magazine loose. I see time and time again in these posts about people sending it to S&W for repairs and getting a new magazine back with the same problems. So maybe its not entirely the magazine and just personally adjusting the magazine might be a stop gap at best, when the problem is with the lower portion of the gun in the magazine well.
No one in their right mind can deny that the Shield doesn't work at all, when the issues are just a small portion of Shield 40 owners. If this is the case it was most likely a very small if not unnoticeable defect during manufacturing but was since fixed at some point. Maybe this defect only affected a few days of work, so there might be thousand or so of these defective handguns floating around on the market. The rest seem to be working fine though.
I'm sorry to hear your last 3 guns had to be sent back, that just seems unlucky. Every S&W firearm I have purchased, I have stripped down out of the box, inspected and put back together (Armorers habit) has never had any major issues and issues they did have I have identified as issues outside the gun, user error, magazine issues or ammo variations.
I find 90% of errors with a firearm is usually one of those 3, unless the weapon style is just known for needing to be broken in, like the 1911 because of the manner in which it is manufactured, the parts need to be beaten into place from use before they work together smoothly. Much like your favorite pair of jeans that feel more comfortable then stiff new pair your wife got you.
The M&P, much like most the newer polymer guns like Glock are designed around the tight fit system were they are designed to work with very little room for error. My father recently bought a Taurus PT 24/7 45acp, he tried to feed it some very questionable reload ammo and it would stove pipe every other round, he was so mad thinking he just bought a junk gun, but then we tried putting some more quality ammo through it and it fires wonderfully.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
I understand things that are mass produced will not always be perfect but if mags are dropping out dont try to band aid the problem by flaring out the mag with a dimple. If tolerances are that tight and some frames are out of specs then they should recall all of them that were produced during that run or ones that come back with those issues. Fix it right the first time especially if they know the real cause to the problem. Dont do the minimum and wait to see if it maybe fixes the problem. I may order more mags for the gun . Do they expect me to return them to put a dimple in the ones I purchase.
Last edited:
I am by no means suggesting S&W knows exactly what is wrong with the weapon, and then finding the exact area or time of all the firearms affected would take quite some time to figure out.
If the issue with a small number of these handguns was so small during manufacturing such as a issue with the magazine well being 1/100th of an inch to thin or a slight warp even their QA might not have noticed it so the only frame of reference S&W would have to find the cause would be the firearms returned (which is why they ask for some of them to be returned). It would make no sense for S&W to recall all Shield handguns when so many of them work.
In a worst case scenario for S&W is that they find out exactly what the problem is, if it is a manufacturers issue and then just replace all the affected firearms with brand new ones.
I don't have a bunch of Shield 40's with mag drop problems to inspect to find the reason like S&W does, so my speculation is just that based on my knowledge of the Shield 40 that I own and my own obsession with tearing apart every gun I can to learn exactly how it works. My speculation is just my theory in a number of possible culprits and for all I know S&W already thought of it, disproved it as being the reason and is looking into things I hadn't even thought of yet.
S&W isn't going to let a few hundred Shield handgun's ruin their reputation of good customer service and quality firearms.
If the issue with a small number of these handguns was so small during manufacturing such as a issue with the magazine well being 1/100th of an inch to thin or a slight warp even their QA might not have noticed it so the only frame of reference S&W would have to find the cause would be the firearms returned (which is why they ask for some of them to be returned). It would make no sense for S&W to recall all Shield handguns when so many of them work.
In a worst case scenario for S&W is that they find out exactly what the problem is, if it is a manufacturers issue and then just replace all the affected firearms with brand new ones.
I don't have a bunch of Shield 40's with mag drop problems to inspect to find the reason like S&W does, so my speculation is just that based on my knowledge of the Shield 40 that I own and my own obsession with tearing apart every gun I can to learn exactly how it works. My speculation is just my theory in a number of possible culprits and for all I know S&W already thought of it, disproved it as being the reason and is looking into things I hadn't even thought of yet.
S&W isn't going to let a few hundred Shield handgun's ruin their reputation of good customer service and quality firearms.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
I agree I think they will get it right. I just hope I dont have to ship it out for a third time.
I am by no means a S&W fan boy. I am a fan of quality guns that are just made to work regardless of who built them but I will learn towards a weapon made in America. If you have to send your weapon in a third time, I would personally expect nothing less then an exchange with a new one and I would let them know that is what I expect, and remind them that no gun should be returned to a customer 3 or more times with the same problem. A replacement is the least expensive option compared to a harsh dent in their reputation with multiple American consumers.
Please post here with the outcome and let us know how it turned out.
Please post here with the outcome and let us know how it turned out.
I feel bad for the folks that have had the problems.
My Shield in 40 has been excellent.
The mag catch on mine seems to stick out further into the magwell than the one on the M&P 45C.
Maybe that was part of their fix
If you spend time on any of the dedicated boards, you would get the indication that EVERY manufacturer is failing.
Go to Glock, Kahr, Springfield Armory, etc......... Someones upset, and someones posting on a quality problem.
I hope S&W fixes this issue, because overall, after having two M&Ps I am more than happy.
My Shield in 40 has been excellent.
The mag catch on mine seems to stick out further into the magwell than the one on the M&P 45C.
Maybe that was part of their fix
If you spend time on any of the dedicated boards, you would get the indication that EVERY manufacturer is failing.
Go to Glock, Kahr, Springfield Armory, etc......... Someones upset, and someones posting on a quality problem.
I hope S&W fixes this issue, because overall, after having two M&Ps I am more than happy.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
I will post results when I get it back. The letter they sent back originally said the gun now meets their specs and had been test fired. Like I stated earlier the mag fell out just racking the gun with a loaded mag before I even test fired it. I dont believe it was range tested because the very first mag I shot it dropped out at least 3 times.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
I called smith and wesson today to check to make sure they received my gun and to let them know that Im asking either a new gun or a new frame with a new serial number. According to the guy I spoke with today Im getting a new frame and some mags. With the new serial number it has to be shipped to a FFL dealer. I told him at this point I just have zero confidence in this particular gun for concealed carry. So we will see. I guess their are some issues with some of the frames. I will post more when I get it back. Maybe early next week.
I bought my Shield 40 at an indoor shooting range last Saturday. I'd read about all the problems with them, so I held off my purchase till now. The store had gotten the gun in just the day before (Black Friday) so I assumed that the mag drop problem was fixed by now. Also, I had fired the Shield 40 rental gun at the range with no problems. So, I bought the gun with confidence. How wrong I was!
I fired 1 full (+1) mag with the long magazine, and had 5 mag drops in 8 rounds. I then tried the short magazine and had 1 mag drop in 6 rounds. Mine sounds worse than any others I've read about!
Before anyone says "operator error" (there is no o-e that can explain 6 mag drops in 14 rounds) let me say that I've been shooting pistols since the 1960's (yes, I'm THAT old!). I'm retired law enforcement and a firearm instructor. I've been shooting competitively (USPSA, steel, and 3-gun matches) since 1983. My first S&W handgun was purchased around 1970 (M34). So, I believe I'm qualified to evaluate a new firearm.
I'm not saying that all 40 Shields are bad. Just that mine is a ***. Got the shipping label this morning and it will be going back to S&W today, along with a very nice (!) letter.
I hate to join this forum just to complain, but this gun is so bad it should never have left the factory. These guns are marketed to police and civilians for self defense purposes and should be near 100%. Some guns, I realize, need some breaking in to get them to smooth up and improve reliability, but there is no amount of breaking in that can fix the mag drop problem. S&W has known about this problem for months and should have all the kinks worked out by now. Pistols with this problem may be in the minority, but it's a large minority. I don't like playing Russian roulette in my gun purchases with the limited funds I have to work with.
I'll re-evaluate when I get the pistol back. It would be nice to think that S&W will do the right thing.
I fired 1 full (+1) mag with the long magazine, and had 5 mag drops in 8 rounds. I then tried the short magazine and had 1 mag drop in 6 rounds. Mine sounds worse than any others I've read about!
Before anyone says "operator error" (there is no o-e that can explain 6 mag drops in 14 rounds) let me say that I've been shooting pistols since the 1960's (yes, I'm THAT old!). I'm retired law enforcement and a firearm instructor. I've been shooting competitively (USPSA, steel, and 3-gun matches) since 1983. My first S&W handgun was purchased around 1970 (M34). So, I believe I'm qualified to evaluate a new firearm.
I'm not saying that all 40 Shields are bad. Just that mine is a ***. Got the shipping label this morning and it will be going back to S&W today, along with a very nice (!) letter.
I hate to join this forum just to complain, but this gun is so bad it should never have left the factory. These guns are marketed to police and civilians for self defense purposes and should be near 100%. Some guns, I realize, need some breaking in to get them to smooth up and improve reliability, but there is no amount of breaking in that can fix the mag drop problem. S&W has known about this problem for months and should have all the kinks worked out by now. Pistols with this problem may be in the minority, but it's a large minority. I don't like playing Russian roulette in my gun purchases with the limited funds I have to work with.
I'll re-evaluate when I get the pistol back. It would be nice to think that S&W will do the right thing.
Smitty357
Member
I dont understand all the h00t over the mag drop problems. Maybe some of them have the problem and others dont. Lucky me I have over 2k rounds through mine without a single hickup.
With that being said....It's soo easy to dimple your own mags and be well on your way with a perfectly functioning gun. IMO, i wouldnt waste my time sending it back to s$w over something that u can fix in a matter of minutes.
Should s&w acknowledge there is a problem.....YES and I believe they should fix it also. But i dont believe it should be drawn out far enough that you can say the gun is useless (because it drops mags). Truth be told, no one is perfect, not even s&w. But you can fix their screw up easily and never have a problem with it again.
With that being said....It's soo easy to dimple your own mags and be well on your way with a perfectly functioning gun. IMO, i wouldnt waste my time sending it back to s$w over something that u can fix in a matter of minutes.
Should s&w acknowledge there is a problem.....YES and I believe they should fix it also. But i dont believe it should be drawn out far enough that you can say the gun is useless (because it drops mags). Truth be told, no one is perfect, not even s&w. But you can fix their screw up easily and never have a problem with it again.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
Yea right I spend over $400 on a gun thats not reliable and you think I should just fix it. The frame is out of wack. Like Im going to have the confidence to defend myself knowing that its not right. You suggest to rig gun to make it work. Whatever!
Rockyriver
Member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 30
- Reaction score
- 20
For all you clip and mag freaks that must have it right.
IF the OP said clips or mags you knew what he meant, why be a 5th grade teacher
and point it out when he has a question?
Here are vendors selling and advertising Clips aka mags at local gun shows.
IF the OP said clips or mags you knew what he meant, why be a 5th grade teacher
and point it out when he has a question?
Here are vendors selling and advertising Clips aka mags at local gun shows.
Last edited:
Modifying magazines to work in the gun is a band aid measure, at best. I'm glad you have one that works, smitty, but don't denigrate those who have a legitimate issue. This problem with a good number of Shield 40s is a real reliability issue that S&W should recognize and fix. It does not inspire confidence in a weapon that was purchased for self defense.
Smitty357
Member
Oh i agree they should acknowledge the problem and fix it by all means. I just dont see how people can complain, then complain about the turn around for s&w to fix it (the same way u can fix it urself). If time is an issue, then id suggest fixing it urself. No one has had any problems after dimpling the mags (that ive heard of).
I've put over 2K through my .40 and a ton of 9mm through the 9mm barrel in the .40 frame. And as i said, its never given me a hickup. And if it ever should give me a hickup, i'll be dimpling the mags myself. IMO, its not worth the hassel and turn around waiting on s&w to dimple the mags for you.
Look at the XDS and the tons of problems those things are having. They dont just have one issue, they have tons. I'd take a messly little mag drop issue over a ton of other issues any day of the week.
I've put over 2K through my .40 and a ton of 9mm through the 9mm barrel in the .40 frame. And as i said, its never given me a hickup. And if it ever should give me a hickup, i'll be dimpling the mags myself. IMO, its not worth the hassel and turn around waiting on s&w to dimple the mags for you.
Look at the XDS and the tons of problems those things are having. They dont just have one issue, they have tons. I'd take a messly little mag drop issue over a ton of other issues any day of the week.
OP
cowboyfan628
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 2
They already dimpled mine. It did not work. Read the thread. They have some issues with the frames too. People should not have to rig a gun to make it work . If so its still not right. I dont know how anyone can say this is acceptable and then have any confidence in the gun.
Last edited:
RobsTV
Member
Based on all the threads about this, it seems that the original production Shield 40 was made differently, and at some point they made a change, maybe design, maybe parts supplier, probably to keep up with demand or to lower costs. Does not appear that they can easily go back to what they used with early batches, since problems are still occurring with newer production runs. S&W is well aware of issue and acknowledges the problem is real.
I would guess that most never visit Internet to complain about any issues, and instead simply go back to gun dealer to have them correct things. I knew the chances of this before purchasing, bought anyway, and drops happened many times with each mag, every time, repeatable, during first range trip. No need to call S&W, as the online warranty works well. Fill out form, they email return shipping label, and off it goes.
Seems "most" end up with a good experience in the end, with S&W promptly correcting the mag drop issue the first time. Mine was fixed within 4 days, and during the trip back to S&W, it is a good time to have them do anything else, such as lighten trigger pull, or adjust/replace sights. So not all bad.
