(Another) Pawn shop find: Performance Center 1911

[olivehead1]

With box, papers, and both factory mags. SKU 170243, Made July 2012. "UCT" serial number.

Just a coincidental find of two S&W 1911s in the past week. I rarely see these in the wild new or used. Traded one of my three Model 39s on this one.

I like it better than the current crop of Performance Center 1911s, few of which are offered in other than stainless with slide cuts, and at prices that I wouldn't consider.

Another pretty good pawn shop price on a gun they'd had for seven months and were looking to move.

 

[Immadmacs]

So if I come across one, what is a good price for such a pawn shop find?

Sent from my ThinkPhone by motorola using Tapatalk

 

[gdpolk]

lovely find!

 

[Dump1567]

Nice score.

 

[olivehead1]

So if I come across one, what is a good price for such a pawn shop find?

I wouldn't pay more than $1,100 OTD. These sold new for somewhere between $1,600-2,000, which I think is crazy. But lightly used with all the stuff from the factory for $1,100 or so out the door I can live with.

Now for a standard issue SW1911, even an E-Series, I wouldn't give more than $600-700, depending on condition.

When dealing with used guns, especially with pawn shops, I really don't care what they sold for new, or even what the market says. I care what the shop has in it. I'm not giving a shop a 200-300% profit on a gun they paid peanuts for. They can either sell it to me now for a fair profit, or let me come back in 6 months and sell it to me then. I seem to be drawn to guns that will sit a good while in your typical pawn shop.

 

[Mfreem08]

Just out of curiosity I checked GB for performance center & E series. Every listing is roughly $300+ of the $1,100/$600 range. So definitely think hard on pawn shop/gun shop finds priced in that 600-grand range

 

[olivehead1]

So definitely think hard on pawn shop/gun shop finds priced in that 600-grand range

So are you saying, "think hard" meaning, strongly consider buying in that price range because that's such a good price? Just slightly confused by your post.

 

[03hemi]

Just out of curiosity I checked GB for performance center & E series. Every listing is roughly $300+ of the $1,100/$600 range. So definitely think hard on pawn shop/gun shop finds priced in that 600-grand range

I have both, the E series msrp's for $1,500 now and the PC msrp's for $1,600 now and for a good reason.
These guns have more upgrades that come factory than a custom Wilson Combat. In fact with all the upgrades, you'd pay $3-4k easily from a boutique builder, so $1,600 for the gun new is a steal, even if used because if you do find one used it won't be under $1000 today.
The only reason the PC is better is because they are pulled off the line and hand fit and finished and it shows. If you wanna know, I can rattle the upgrades off for you.

 

[Mfreem08]

So are you saying, "think hard" meaning, strongly consider buying in that price range because that's such a good price? Just slightly confused by your post.

Yup, buy buy buy

 

[wproct]

Unfortunately my local pawnshop is no longer in business. I miss it, I got to know the owner and always felt he treated me fairly. I used to get better deals sometimes before the internet and Gunbroker came into play, but like I said, he treated me fairly based on what he had invested in the gun.

 

[olivehead1]

Yup, buy buy buy

That's what I figured.

 

[olivehead1]

The only reason the PC is better is because they are pulled off the line and hand fit and finished and it shows.

A little late to my own party, but I just noticed your post.

You have a fair point, but this particular PC gun had one of the mushier thumb safeties I've ever felt on any 1911, even for a bargain basement make and model. Since this gun from this period was fit out with a number of Wilson Combat parts, including the rear target sight and thumb safety, I ordered a new WC safety and fit it so that it now has a nice "snick" to it. I was rather surprised that such a poorly fit safety would have left the Performance Center in the first place, but I guess it happens.

 

[AveragEd]

Yes, it seems that American quality has slipped over the recent years. I know this will ruffle some feathers, but I blame unions for this. I spent my working life in the automobile industry as a master technician for 11 years and 27 more in service and parts management. I lived through the longest voluntary work stoppage in the history of American industry, when the UAW walked out on General Motors in September of 1970. That strike lasted 144 days, just a week shy of five months, and the sticking point had nothing to do with wages, benefits or working conditions.

GM was demanding improved workmanship and brother, it was sorely needed. The Japanese had gone to automated assembly and were eating our lunch between body build quality and the fuel economy of their smaller vehicles. I had the pleasure of touring GM's first automated assembly plant in Baltimore, Maryland during the 1995 introduction of the Chevrolet Astro and GMC Safari, GM's first minivans. I was so impressed by what I could see that I arranged a tour one evening every other month for our employees and customers.

The UAW hated automation, of course, as fewer employees were needed but quieted down after GM automated its Wilmington, Delaware plant to build the Chevrolet Beretta and Corsica. GM's cost of body-related warranty repairs per vehicle built in those two pants was far less than nearby plants like Linden, New Jersey and Tarrytown, New York which were eventually shuttered, partially due to poor build quality.

When I retired from that industry in 2008, GM's three best plants in terms of warranty expense were Oshawa, Ontario plant #2, Ramos Arizpe, Mexico and Oshawa Plant #1. What does that say about American work ethic?

In 2016, returned to full-time work at the company that owns all the Kenworth truck dealerships, parts and service centers and parts warehouses in Pennsylvania. Only our home office in Carlisle was unionized and the atmosphere there was a lot more me-first than at our other 11 branches. The contract renewal in 2020 dragged out for a few months because our owner was demanding that the union not force employees to belong if they chose not to. To illustrate how weak unions have become, the union finally agreed even though the branch was considered a union shop by federal labor laws, which meant that the only difference between not having to pay about $130 per month in dues, the 46% of us who opted out only lost our ability to vote for contracts and serve as a shop stewart.

In June of 2024, the union was voted out completely. I retired again last January but none of the former coworkers with whom I have spoken miss it much.

The cost of an employee is as high as it has ever been and that has forced fewer employees to wear more hats. Companies have two choices - suffer with a slip in quality or a loss of business if their payroll forces uncompetitive higher prices for their goods and services. It's the current business environment of this great country.

Ed

 

[CH4]

I have both, the E series msrp's for $1,500 now and the PC msrp's for $1,600 now and for a good reason.
These guns have more upgrades that come factory than a custom Wilson Combat. In fact with all the upgrades, you'd pay $3-4k easily from a boutique builder, so $1,600 for the gun new is a steal, even if used because if you do find one used it won't be under $1000 today.
The only reason the PC is better is because they are pulled off the line and hand fit and finished and it shows. If you wanna know, I can rattle the upgrades off for you.

Very true about all the cool custom touches, but for me the external extractor negates all the positives. I know it’s not a big deal to many but it’s a deal breaker for me on a 1911. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I can’t help it it’s a birth defect. I do like external extractors on my 3rd gen’s, Berettas, Glocks, Sigs…

 

[olivehead1]

Very true about all the cool custom touches, but for me the external extractor negates all the positives. I know it’s not a big deal to many but it’s a deal breaker for me on a 1911. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I can’t help it it’s a birth defect. I do like external extractors on my 3rd gen’s, Berettas, Glocks, Sigs…

Obviously it's not a deal breaker for me, but I definitely see your point. I imagine after hemming and hawing for years (looking at your Models 645, 745, 845, 945), when S&W finally decided to put out a 1911, they had decades of experience with the external extractor so went with what they knew. Why reinvent the wheel? Of course, the same could be asked of the internal extractor on the 1911...

 

[Yendor357]

Those S&W 1911s sure are pretty. And for what they are asking for them, they’d better be.
I recently got a Ruger SR 1911 for much less than $1100. I’ll be the first to say it isn’t quite as pretty. But it’s all stainless with black accents and black G10 grips. It feeds, fires and ejects. It’s cold here, so I haven’t shot it a bunch, but the first 4, 3 shot groups went right around 1.5 inches at 25 yards from a rest. Then I started shooting offhand. With a very crisp 4.8 pound trigger and adjustable sights, I was doing quite well with it.
At some point, you just can’t make the wheel any rounder.

 

[Tom S.]

Very true about all the cool custom touches, but for me the external extractor negates all the positives. I know it’s not a big deal to many but it’s a deal breaker for me on a 1911. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I can’t help it it’s a birth defect. I do like external extractors on my 3rd gen’s, Berettas, Glocks, Sigs…

As one who has tuned the extractors on a few 1911's that either failed to extract or were sporadic, I appreciate the S&W external extractor. Yeah, it doesn't look as nice as the internal original, but it seems to be a lot less finicky.

 

[M29since14]

The only part I’ve ever had to replace on any of my 1911s, other than springs, has been an extractor. In 45-plus years of shooting, I’ve replaced them on three different pistols, two Colts (Gold Cups) and one Springfield. My S&Ws with external extractors are more recent acquisitions but have gotten their share of use. No problems with them, so far.

I have no idea which design works best in severe conditions, but for me, the extractor thing is much ado about nothing.

 

[Tom S.]

The only part I’ve ever had to replace on any of my 1911s, other than springs, has been an extractor. In 45-plus years of shooting, I’ve replaced them on three different pistols, two Colts (Gold Cups) and one Springfield. My S&Ws with external extractors are more recent acquisitions but have gotten their share of use. No problems with them, so far.

I have no idea which design works best in severe conditions, but for me, the extractor thing is much ado about nothing.

I've not had to replace them, though I did buy one for a back-up. I found they had a tendency to lose the proper bend/tension and bought a tool to properly bend them back to specs. It's still a bit of trial-and-error process, but it has worked on the ones I used it on. Unless of course it's broken, which I've heard about but never seen.

 

[CH4]

As one who has tuned the extractors on a few 1911's that either failed to extract or were sporadic, I appreciate the S&W external extractor. Yeah, it doesn't look as nice as the internal original, but it seems to be a lot less finicky.

^^^^^^
I agree
Fortunately, I’ve never had trouble with either.