Another Police Agency Adopts the S&W

[MachR1]

As for any Atlanta slant, I don't know because I don't live there, but as for a .40 over a 9mm. Well, ballistics data has proven that it is far more effective at creating serious bodily harm over a 9mm. I read one ballistics data report several years ago, that showed that a .40cal had a 94 percent kill ratio at 15 yards, the same as a .45cal. That is shot placement, bullet characteristics, brand, ect, are the same.

Now, as for me I'm a .45cal guy. As my baptism to guns in the 1980's Marine Corps was with the 1911's and also experienced the transition to the Barreta 92 9mm's, I always remember thinking, that there needed to be a happy medium between these two, because, I always thought there was no way in hell this 9mm is going to have the impact of a .45 freight train. I will admit, the 9mm was very accurate, but I had already learned to shoot expert with the .45, so the barreta was a piece of cake.
As for LE, and I am no LE officer, but I have read and heard many cases, for years, that the 9mm was insufficent at stopping and drugged up, hyped up perp. I personnally have many LEO living in my neighborhood and have discussed the caliber issue, and everyone of them prefers the .40cal over the 9mm. I'm not picking on 9mm, because I bought one for my daughter, because the .40 was to much for her and scared her, but caliber is just like displacement in engines, the bigger the round or motor, the more punch or horsepower. It's just simple physics.
With all this said, most important thing is to arm yourselves. Any and all guns are effective as a deterent against 90 percent of the general perps out there. Just the sight of a gun stops most in there tracks.

God Bless JMB and the 1911 hand canons. The bigger the hole the better.

Cheers

 

[mtnsmithguy]

Gimme a Gran Fury with a 440, an 8-track player for the slow nights, and a 4 inch K frame 357 and I'll be just fine.

You forgot to add the 6 cell Kel-Lite, slapjack, and being allowed to use the carotid restraint hold......oh the good ole days!!

 

[sheriffoconee]

DeKalb PD needed new handguns. They had to sell the idea to the County Commission...so, how do you do that??? Telling the Commission that our guns have reached the end of their service life is a waste of time. So you have to have "examples" of "why" you need to replace the pistols..it is called politics....

 

[Qmark]

That price works out to $172.89 each for gun, holster and accessories. That's a pretty good price for a .40 M&P. Curious the value of the trade in allowance for the old Beretta's.

I wonder if these are the used Berettas JG is currently selling.

Beretta

 

[st regis]

I remember what Dekalb PD carried before the 92's......Model 25-5, 4 inch 45LC!!. I have one of the trade ins....narrow and grooved service trigger, and a service hammer, not a target.....and they sent them back for narrower charge holes. On e of my favorite possessions.

 

[luis]

What 9mm Berettas were they using 20 years ago that are no longer manufactured? The Model 92, which they were probably using, is still in production and will likely be so for many years.

In the past 20 years Beretta has done 2 frame design changes to save money. The problem come that companies have stoped making holsters and accessories for the older frames.

I agree that S&W is probably giving them a major price break as an advertising tool. Years back when Glock wanted to get into Illinois several departments were offered Glock 17, 6 mags, holster and mag pouch at $75.00 per officer.

 

[presspics]

I suspect that they were carrying the Beretta Cougar since that model was indeed discontinued by Beretta.

I think it's crazy that the only "real" example of being outgunned that they cited was where an officers AR-15 was stolen from a stolen cruiser. Had that officer not had an AR in his car then they would not have been outgunned.

 

[tpd223]

This article is so full of complete BS it makes my head hurt.

The idea that a 9mm is puny while the .40 or .45 is a Death Ray/the Hammer of God is retarded and will get cops killed (or anybody else that believes this and counts on it to be true).

Sorry folks, the .40 and .45 fail just like everything else, and just as often. We are talking pistols here, not real guns like rifles and 12 gauge shotguns. Pistols poke holes in people, that's about it.

If the guns were old and worn out due to daily carry, use and abuse, just say so, the anti-gun "we gotta keep up with the bad guys" BS is nothing but BS.

 

[SWAT Lt.]

The .45 doesn't have the impact of a freight train????

 

[Knightrider03m]

As for any Atlanta slant, I don't know because I don't live there, but as for a .40 over a 9mm. Well, ballistics data has proven that it is far more effective at creating serious bodily harm over a 9mm. I read one ballistics data report several years ago, that showed that a .40cal had a 94 percent kill ratio at 15 yards, the same as a .45cal. That is shot placement, bullet characteristics, brand, ect, are the same.

Now, as for me I'm a .45cal guy. As my baptism to guns in the 1980's Marine Corps was with the 1911's and also experienced the transition to the Barreta 92 9mm's, I always remember thinking, that there needed to be a happy medium between these two, because, I always thought there was no way in hell this 9mm is going to have the impact of a .45 freight train. I will admit, the 9mm was very accurate, but I had already learned to shoot expert with the .45, so the barreta was a piece of cake.
As for LE, and I am no LE officer, but I have read and heard many cases, for years, that the 9mm was insufficent at stopping and drugged up, hyped up perp. I personnally have many LEO living in my neighborhood and have discussed the caliber issue, and everyone of them prefers the .40cal over the 9mm. I'm not picking on 9mm, because I bought one for my daughter, because the .40 was to much for her and scared her, but caliber is just like displacement in engines, the bigger the round or motor, the more punch or horsepower. It's just simple physics.
With all this said, most important thing is to arm yourselves. Any and all guns are effective as a deterent against 90 percent of the general perps out there. Just the sight of a gun stops most in there tracks.

God Bless JMB and the 1911 hand canons. The bigger the hole the better.

Cheers

1) Newer testing shows that the differences between 9mm and .40 is small

2) I have never heard a .40 or a .45 to have no 94% rate. The only round that I heard that up that high is the .357 mag in 125 grain

3) I've ready a story of a cop that had a Glock .45 that got into a gun fight with a guy that wasn't drugged up or drunk and pumped him with 13 .45acp rounds with the 13th round going in the guys head before the guy went down. If I remember right, 2 or 3 of those rounds entered the guys chest. (If anyone know what site that report was on, post it)

4) Since you wanted to make the comparison, my turbo V6 (like a +p 9mm) can keep up or out run most V8 (like .40)

5) Just like 10mm, the .45s are not hand cannons. In fact there really isn't a handgun that earns that title (Yes even the .500SW). A true hand cannon can be found in rifles and shotguns.



I hope that no one gets into a gun fight but if someone do with the type of thinking that a lot of folks here have..... they will be really disappointed when their rounds don't blow off a human body part.

 

[Knightrider03m]

The .45 doesn't have the impact of a freight train????

No, more like a Mack truck

 

[brucev]

The 9mm is what it is, a product improvement over the .30 Luger which left even Europeans less than impressed. In automatic weapons, etc., the 9mm has been heavily used and, like any military round, has found wide civilian acceptance. For better or worse, it is a round that will endure to the crack of doom. There are better choices.

The .40 S&W did not spring out of the brow of Samuel Colt. Perhaps that is the reason some can not seem to accept it. Rather it is the result of S&W seeing just how big a round they could get into a 9mm frame while maintaining more than the limited capacity of traditional single-stack magazines. That they succeeded is a fact of history. The .40 S&W is grit in the eye of those who either can't get over the inadequacy of the 9mm or else think that ballistic theory and development begins and ends with Taylor Knock Down values. The simply facts of life are that the .40 S&W in a good design (Glock G-22, M&P, Sig, etc.) is just about everything anyone could want for SD/HD or LE use. Other than extreme scenarios one might read in the equivalent of "True Crime," the .40 S&W is going to be more than equal to the task of whatever a civilian or officer might face. For instances such as the 1997 North Hollywood the notorious 1997 shootout, the idea that a handgun of any sort will suffice is ludicrous.

As far as this or any other agency adopting a Glock, M&P, etc., the decision is almost invariably made by those whose concerns are mostly focused on budget. The idea that use by LEO agencies determines which is the better design is as ridiculous as when the same logic was used to say either the Colt or S&W .38 revolver designs were superior.

 

[twogunjay]

Price wise, it's very common for the manufacturers to take it on the chin, write it off, etc. with major agencies when it comes to the pricing of pistols. Advertising is the key and it becomes one more feather in their proverbial cap. That said...there is still a tremendous mark-up in these guns to the civilian market.

 

[SWAT Lt.]

Marcus88,
I've seen people hit with trucks (and freight trains now that I think about it) and people hit with .45s. The only failures to stop were with the .45.

brucev,
I don't believe any handgun cartridge is a good choice to take to a fight, I'd much rather have an M4 or a .308. Handguns come into play due to portability and convenience; we can always be armed with one whereas not so with a rifle or shotgun.

That said, I do not believe the 9mm with modern LE ammo is "inadequate." In fact, it may offer some advantages to some users over the .40, .45, or 357 SIG. Many agencies still use the 9mm and are satisfied with the results in their OISs. I am issued a .40 but would have no qualms carrying a 9mm.

By all means, use what you prefer and have confidence in. To each his own. But, I don't believe you can write off the 9mm as inadequate any more so than the other service calibers.

 

[sbroadwell]

I remember what Dekalb PD carried before the 92's......Model 25-5, 4 inch 45LC!!. I have one of the trade ins....narrow and grooved service trigger, and a service hammer, not a target.....and they sent them back for narrower charge holes. On e of my favorite possessions.

I remember those, too! Before that, they carried .357, I believe. Back when the company I co-owned had a contract with Dekalb to guard their prisoners at Grady, we guarded a guy that had 18 holes in him from those guns. I think that had something to do with them going to the 45LC.