One "What if" not discussed and that is what if your gun won't shoot?

[MaximumLawman]

The trend away from revolvers in LE started back in the 80's, because there was a perception that cops were suddenly "outgunned" by gang-bangers who were all supposedly toting MAC-10's and AK-47's. The issue was capacity, not reliability.


When we transitioned to autopistols in the early 90's at my last two police departments, qualification scores dropped......for some officers qualification was VERY difficult. The manual of arms was far more complex, and it did cause problems. Training and equipment budgets, already strained, had to be bolstered to get officers up to speed on the autos, and it often took twice as much practice ammo before officers were considered proficient with their new sidearms. But it was NEVER about reliability!

I think the trend had a lot to do with reliability, AND the double-action triggers on other autos after the 39 and 59. I came on with a Model 10 and 12 extra rounds...in loops....6 for the skinny guys. The only semi autos that were authorized for carry after self-purchase were Model 39's and 59's and Walther 380's for off-duty. Other than those two autos we had to carry Smith or Colt revolvers, 4" or longer and .38 or up. And yes, we WERE outgunned when we were taking Uzi's and Mac-10's and AR-15's and AK-47's and various other hi-cap pistols and SMG's off the street every single day. There were plenty of times when 6 rounds and a reload from loops were not realistically enough to fight your way back to the car for the optional WWII M-1 carbine or 870 that most of us carried. We were not authorized to carry any other autos until the Smith 645 came out and finally the Glocks after a lot of testing specifically for reliability.

And looking at what the youngster cops are carrying on and off-duty today, I think it's more than reasonable to say that revolvers are not very popular anymore.

I will agree that many Depts issue semi autos. Not sure too many issue automatics.

"Auto" in my post is short for "auto loader" for those who want to be picky.

 

[M29since14]

With or without carrying coconuts?

A swallow cannot carry a coconut. It's not a matter of how it grips it!

(Everyone knows that. )

 

[johnsonl]

It makes perfect sense. Revolvers are more reliable than semi autos because semi autos must rely on ammo to function correctly. Unreliable ammo causes malfunctions in semi autos. Next would be a bent magazine lip. Last would be limp wristing. None of those factors affect a revolver.
Just because a department issues it, doesn't make it the best tool for the job. I started with a CS-1 and have carried a 6946, a Glock and an HK P2000. The CS-1 never failed to fire. The other 3 have, the Glock being the most reliable (I have a personal Glock 22).

That doesn't make any sense. Virtually every police department in the country issues automatics, the "fancy" gun du jour is often a well-marketed copy of an auto patented in 1911, Smith and Wesson, known forever for their revolvers is making their own "1911" auto.....Compared to autos, revolvers are very UNpopular because among other things, autos are now extremely reliable and carry many bullets. I believe revolvers are as RELATIVELY popular as they are because they fill a niche not covered by autos and it has very little to do with superior reliability as compared to autos. You've got the "cool" factor because few people who carry guns for a living carry revolvers anymore, the nostalgia factor, the back-up gun factor and the "because I don't want to buy another gun" factor. Some people may carry a .45acp revolver instead of an auto in the same caliber because they believe the revolver is more reliable than a quality auto, but not many. And some will claim "reliability" because they don't want to admit that they carry a revolver because they think it's cool and unique and the stag grips make them look sexy.

 

[MaximumLawman]

It makes perfect sense. Revolvers are more reliable than semi autos because semi autos must rely on ammo to function correctly.

The part that didn't make any sense is the "...as popular as they are" part. Revolvers are relatively UNpopular compared with auto loaders. And in my personal anecdodal experience, revolvers are LESS reliable. I never had a failure to function in any of the autos I've carried on duty but I had a model 27 that didn't work sometimes. I have no idea what was wrong with it. Something internal. I never bothered to find out, I just sold it. But I could fire rounds fine until something would happen and the trigger would seize. Also, one of my model 49's broke. The thing that the hammer pivots on broke and the gun wouldn't fire. So....anyway...the poster implied that revolvers were popular, and compared to autos, they're not. That's what didn't make sense.

Just because a department issues it, doesn't make it the best tool for the job.

Maybe (and that's a big maybe) not, but it sure as hell goes to "popularity" when just about every medium to large department in the country issues autos instead of revolvers. Are you contending that there is a revolver that is better suited for issue to modern uniform police officers than a Glock 27 (for example)? Which one and why?

 

[M3Stuart]

Q: What would happen if your gun won't shoot?

A: Throw smoke, and frags if you have 'em, then run for cover while yelling "Frag out!" Then call in an airstrike and/or evac.

 

[mc5aw]

"If the threat to you is armed and well prepared with military gear it can be a more significant thing than you expect."

Seriously? You mean military gear as in bandoleers of .50 cal and fragmentation grenades? Or are you referring to low slung designer camo baggy pants and an Old Navy logo sweatshirt?

Let me know when we start theorizing about what Butch and Sundance would do if given second chance.

 

[mkk41]

KNOW YOUR WEAPON!

Rare for a modern , well made , well maintained firearm to just stop working. Abuse , neglect , damaged or poor quality magazines or bad ammo are the causes of 99.9% of firearms not working properly.

 

[jag312]

I practice at least once a week with the two high quality firearms that I am authorized to carry. I keep my firearms clean and properly lubricated. I keep the firearms loaded with fresh, high quality ammunition. The chance of both failing me when I need them is so minuscule that I don't worry about it.

If I carried a Rohm RG-14 or a Raven MP-25, then I would be a little concerned about reliability, but I carry a Smith & Wesson revolver made before the IL and a Browning pistol.

 

[NE450No2]

First, always carry at least 2 handguns.
Always keep your cell phone properly charged.
Always carry a couple of quarters.
If you are not a LEO, do not get directly involved in other peoples business...

That is what the cell phone and quarters are for...


IF, you PROPERLY use you Legally Carried Gun, to protect a "third party", who did not have the fortitude to prepare to protect themselves...

It could possibly cost YOU THOUSANDS of dollars...

The third party, you saved, will not help you, and may even testify against you... Depending on the PD and DA in the area the incident happens in...

 

[williamlayton]

There is a chance that a weapon may malfunction.
In my case and at my age---same goes for a few of you folks also---I have this base covered. I know the Lord as my Savior.
Blessings

 

[NE450No2]

Its good to know the Lord, I am just not ready to meet him in person,
just yet...

But I do take his advise, as in, God helps those that help themselves...

So I always carry at least 2 handguns.

 

[szuppo]

Stop fantasizing and worrying about "what if" scenarios. Turn off the computer, get out of your parents basement and go do something constructive.
Good God....these "What Ifs" drive me crazy.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

It should be noted that there were only two deaths in the North Hollywood Shootout: those of the bank robbers. the outgunned patrol officers hunkered down and returned fire until one offed himself and the other was dispatched by SWAT when they arrived. The basic rule is such: if you cannot dispatch the perp, keep him busy until the guy with a rifle shows up(because of North Hollywood most officers now keep a rifle in their trunk) take cover, return fire, if you jam; clear it, if the gun breaks, attack vigorously with you're new ergonomic club

 

[Kanewpadle]

Club? Or BUG?

 

[cwo4uscgret]

How'd I miss this little gem of a "Oh my Gawd, what if" scenario? Probably at work, in uniform, carry an H&K USP 2000 .40 S&W....

Yet again duke - you cite a gun incident in which lives were lost but your scenario has nothing to do with malfunctioning firearms; it has to do with, purely and simply, a police agency being outgunned. Several officers tried to level the playing field by going into a near by gun shop and "requisitioning" some ARs and ammo.

As far as I can recall, none of the LAPD Officers firearms malfunctioned; they were under powered.

Now to address your (at least I hope it is your) concern.

Like it or not, not every firearm functions everytime the trigger is pulled. More often then not the fecal matter is hitting the fan fairly hard when the malfunction occurs. There are as you may recall a few common malfunctions: FTE, FTF, dropping the magazine, and a few others.

Here we go there duke - I'm not going to get into a long debate with you; you need to be trained and continue to practice until you can clear a malfunction almost as fast as you reload.

Tap, rack, reload; grip it, rip it, reload; or a really common one, you'd think it would be easier; your magazine is empty; hey it happens; a lot more then you can imagine.

Buy some dummy ammo; go to the range with your shooting partner; have him load some magazines, and see what happens. Start slow, practice, practice, it is the only way that to survive in a gunfight - knowing how to clear a malfunction...