Nessmuck
Member
Been looking to add and use a Vintage Winchester Model 12 ,28" 12 guage.......what do you folks think of this shot gun ??? Pros and cons welcome ...Thanks
Any Win. Model 12 fans here ??
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I have four M12s. A 12 gauge Riot Gun, a 12 gauge with an adjustable choke. A 20 gauge and my favorite one to hunt with, a cylinder bore 16 gauge. Also have a perfect M42 my Dad bought me 35 years ago.
The M12 is a classic. Buy it if the price is right.
Jim
The M12 is a classic. Buy it if the price is right.
Jim
runwiththeherd
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I wouldn't miss a chance to buy a 28." I inherited my Dad's, which was "ceremoniously banned" from turkey shoots in the Goldsboro area in the 60's. That Model 12 never failed to bring home a bird. I still have it and shoot it.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I can't even hunt anymore and I'd just about mortgage my firstborn for a Model 12 in 20- or 16 gauge.
Still, many people nowadays consider the Remington 870 to be superior mechanically.
I want a Model 12 or Ithace 37 anyway.
Still, many people nowadays consider the Remington 870 to be superior mechanically.
I want a Model 12 or Ithace 37 anyway.
My first shotgun was a Model 12. Wish I still had it.
It takes down to a shorter overall length than most pump guns. Some folks consider this a pro.
The trigger does not disconnect if you hold it down while you pump a fresh round into the chamber. Many folks consider this a con. I sort of liked this feature because it would allow you to get shots off faster than a semi-auto shotgun; I liked to see how many clay pigeons I could break before any hit the ground. Otherwise I just took my finger off the trigger between shots and didn't worry about any unusual safety issues.
It takes down to a shorter overall length than most pump guns. Some folks consider this a pro.
The trigger does not disconnect if you hold it down while you pump a fresh round into the chamber. Many folks consider this a con. I sort of liked this feature because it would allow you to get shots off faster than a semi-auto shotgun; I liked to see how many clay pigeons I could break before any hit the ground. Otherwise I just took my finger off the trigger between shots and didn't worry about any unusual safety issues.
Big Cholla
Member
My Father purchased a used M 12 in 20 ga. the week I was born. He always said this is ***'s shotgun, I'm just going to use it for the next 12 years. He did too. I started at 12 with the 20 and then we both went to M 12's in 16 ga. when I turned 16. That started me in reloading. Working in the gun shop while attending college taught me that the Rem. M 870 was probably a better shotgun in durability and lightness, but I never much cared. I still have that Win. M 12/20ga. I guess my four grandsons are going to have to cut cards for it someday. ................. Big Cholla
The model 12 was the finest built and designed pump gun ever built. While other brands work fine, a model 12 was built from milled steel billets and hand forgings. There were over 3,000 hand inspections done on every model 12. The death knells for the model 12 was other companies that used cast parts and stamped tin parts. The old 12's are kinda heavy but they swing well and are brute tough. You are in luck as most old Winchesters bring high dollar. A good plain barrel 12 gauge with some useage usually sell for under $400. I as well as others collectors prefer pre war models but all are top notch.
Good quality pumps shotguns. They can usually be bought in still nice condition for relatively little money. No short cuts in mfg'rg when they were made till the Y series came out after '64. But those were Custom Shop offerings only anyway.
A bit heavy compared to most everything made today. Yes they can and do wear out and have problems. They are just a machine like any other. But they can be fixed and rebuilt with not too much trouble.
The op-rod end wears most often to give feeding and lockup problems. They can be rebuilt (welding) or sometimes a new replacement can be found. Ejector (spring) breaks once in a while or the ejector is lost during the dissassembly of the action by the owners cousin. Not a difficult part to find generally
Parts are still around as they made so many of the things. Some parts are gauge specific.
The TD system can wear to the end of it's available take-up if used and used. Better to put the thing together and leave it together,,breaking it down only when absolutely necessary.
The factory used to have extra numbered bbl thread collars to extend the take-up of the TD system when the factory provided collar was at it's end of life cycle. Now you just have to hunt them down through parts dealers and they are crazy expensive. Same deal for the M42.
Lots of aftermarket stocks and forends available for the M12. Many are Bolt-on ready but taking the forend assembly apart to exchange the forend wood isn't easy unless you've done it before. You need a forend cap wrench of one kind or another for the job.
Nice pump guns, but one for some reason that I've never personally owned. Worked on a great number of them, but never owned one.
I like the M97 better and shoot a couple of those. I prefer the 97 to M12 as far as Winchester pumps are concerned. Just a personal preference,,they all go bang.
A bit heavy compared to most everything made today. Yes they can and do wear out and have problems. They are just a machine like any other. But they can be fixed and rebuilt with not too much trouble.
The op-rod end wears most often to give feeding and lockup problems. They can be rebuilt (welding) or sometimes a new replacement can be found. Ejector (spring) breaks once in a while or the ejector is lost during the dissassembly of the action by the owners cousin. Not a difficult part to find generally
Parts are still around as they made so many of the things. Some parts are gauge specific.
The TD system can wear to the end of it's available take-up if used and used. Better to put the thing together and leave it together,,breaking it down only when absolutely necessary.
The factory used to have extra numbered bbl thread collars to extend the take-up of the TD system when the factory provided collar was at it's end of life cycle. Now you just have to hunt them down through parts dealers and they are crazy expensive. Same deal for the M42.
Lots of aftermarket stocks and forends available for the M12. Many are Bolt-on ready but taking the forend assembly apart to exchange the forend wood isn't easy unless you've done it before. You need a forend cap wrench of one kind or another for the job.
Nice pump guns, but one for some reason that I've never personally owned. Worked on a great number of them, but never owned one.
I like the M97 better and shoot a couple of those. I prefer the 97 to M12 as far as Winchester pumps are concerned. Just a personal preference,,they all go bang.
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I have 2. A 2 bbl. 12 ga.(27"&32") and a 28" 20 ga.. The perfect repeater.
Papabear7
Member
Just picked up my first--I just wanted one to round out my iconic classics' of the collection. I have some work to do, took it out for my first shoot today, and pump-action locked up. From what I've read, perhaps I was pulling the forearm into my body too much during the shot and fouled the reset action, but it was locked-up bad enough to go home and open it slowly on the bench. I've read they can be finicky with ammo, or maybe we have some smithin' to do. I still love it, beautiful wood, dates to 1919. Hope to get her shooting well; no doubt get one, just look for a good example.
The action can lock up when the gun has been disassembled and not
reassembled correctly. Unlike many more modern guns the md 12 will
go together and seem to be ok but isn't because it is put back
together incorrectly. As pointed out above the end of the operating
rod can wear resulting in lockup problems. Ejector springs weaken and
ejection is insufficient unless the bolt is worked forcefully. Check for
bolt vertical movement after lockup, less is better. Many older guns
will have been reblued but there are still many low round count plain
barreled field models around that can be bought for a reasonable
price. Many like the pre war guns but for a shooter I would look for
a 50s era gun. It's very easy to overpay for md 12s found at gun shops
and shows and GB may be a better place to buy one. In all honesty
"Joe Average Hunter" will be better off with an 870 Remington.
reassembled correctly. Unlike many more modern guns the md 12 will
go together and seem to be ok but isn't because it is put back
together incorrectly. As pointed out above the end of the operating
rod can wear resulting in lockup problems. Ejector springs weaken and
ejection is insufficient unless the bolt is worked forcefully. Check for
bolt vertical movement after lockup, less is better. Many older guns
will have been reblued but there are still many low round count plain
barreled field models around that can be bought for a reasonable
price. Many like the pre war guns but for a shooter I would look for
a 50s era gun. It's very easy to overpay for md 12s found at gun shops
and shows and GB may be a better place to buy one. In all honesty
"Joe Average Hunter" will be better off with an 870 Remington.
gmiller0737
Member
I have 2 M-12's & a M-42 in .410 Plus a Browning Reproduction in .28ga So I guess you could call Me a M-12 Fan The 1 that gets used most often is a Mid 50's 12ga "Heavy Duck" 3" Magnum
dogngun
US Veteran
Carried one in the Army in the last century...
The few times I got out in the field was at night, and I decided I wanted an effective firearm for low light close range use...the E7 showed me how to use the M12, as the old trench gun was called by the Army, a Model 12 with heavy 20" barrel, heat shield, bayonet lug, steel butt plate and phosphate finish with a LOT of wear showing...I evidently convinced him that I could operate the thing and he said, " I now pronounce you qualified on the M12 trench gun." It let me feel pretty secure, and I have had a similar shotgun around somewhere for many years now, although it's a Mossberg 500.
The old Model 12 Win is a solid, reliable and widely used shotgun that at one time was THE pump gun that others were judged by. No longer the most up to date pump, but it is still solid and reliable and I would not hesitate to get one it I had the need. And they are probably collectable now that Winchester is gone...My old 94 .30-30 sells for about 3 times what it did when it was new, and it was NOT one of the "good years"...but it still works great.
The few times I got out in the field was at night, and I decided I wanted an effective firearm for low light close range use...the E7 showed me how to use the M12, as the old trench gun was called by the Army, a Model 12 with heavy 20" barrel, heat shield, bayonet lug, steel butt plate and phosphate finish with a LOT of wear showing...I evidently convinced him that I could operate the thing and he said, " I now pronounce you qualified on the M12 trench gun." It let me feel pretty secure, and I have had a similar shotgun around somewhere for many years now, although it's a Mossberg 500.
The old Model 12 Win is a solid, reliable and widely used shotgun that at one time was THE pump gun that others were judged by. No longer the most up to date pump, but it is still solid and reliable and I would not hesitate to get one it I had the need. And they are probably collectable now that Winchester is gone...My old 94 .30-30 sells for about 3 times what it did when it was new, and it was NOT one of the "good years"...but it still works great.
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gregintenn
Member
A pre 64 Winchester exhibits quality not available today.
The model 12 is among the greates pump shotguns ever produced.
I see no cons.
The model 12 is among the greates pump shotguns ever produced.
I see no cons.
A tip of the hat to Thomas "Tommy" Johnson for designing the mdl. 12..............You did good!
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I have an old nickel-steel 16-gauge that my grandfather left me. Just had it out the other day, and put some lord-knows-how-old #6 shells through it.
The handling qualities of that shotgun are far superior to my "modern" 870, and the craftsmanship is amazing. I haven't hunted much since my GF passed, but the couple of times I've gone, that old bird always gets the call.
The handling qualities of that shotgun are far superior to my "modern" 870, and the craftsmanship is amazing. I haven't hunted much since my GF passed, but the couple of times I've gone, that old bird always gets the call.
The trigger disconnect is only an issue on the early guns. I don't have a date, but I think it was fairly early in production. None of mine will fire if you hold the trigger back.
These are solid shotguns. The only problem I ever had was more than 20 years ago with the 12 gauge model with the adjustable choke. I was shooting clay pigeons with a friend of mine and took a shot. Pumped the action and it went off.
I looked at my right hand, finger was not on trigger. (Rule #3). It was pointed skyward. (Rule #2). Turned out it was a sear that was worn. Gunsmith easily fixed it.These are classic shotguns and highly collectable.
Jim
Is there any decent solution to the steel shot problem? I have several model 12s and a couple Ithaca 37s that I picked up when the price was cheap, for this reason. One is now a 20 inch house gun. The rest are projects. None are in good cosmetic shape - all need refinishing. But I can't really bear to part with them. Mostly 30 inch full choke.
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