Sebago Son
Member
With knowledge comes understanding. That's when you're SUNK!
f.t.
Bobby, you left out the Fantasizing then Obsession part...
Anybody watch this box on EBAY?
- Thread starter fat tom
- Start date
Bobby, you left out the Fantasizing then Obsession part...
rburg
Member
It would be difficult to find another box that good. If someone here has one, good for them. But I'd also guess they know what they have, and would buy another in a second if they found it.
There are different ways to obtain a box that good. You can spend the time searching the world. Or you can take the easy way and just pay someone else who has one. Like the Ebay box. I'm going to take a wild guess that the Ebay price was much cheaper but less satisifying than the search for one in similar condition. There are some requirements to finding a box that good, or one in acceptably good condition.
My quest for early K22 boxes goes back only 20 years. I was stumbling along, kind of like a drunk (only I was sober at the time). I found a table at National Gun Day where one of the booksellers had an extra table covered with boxes. He was asking $25 each for them, but I managed to land a red box, and a gold box for $40 total. Since that day I've watched the prices go up a bit. I've very willingly paid $100 and once $135. I don't think I've ever overspent on one.
I've even got a pair of Masterpiece boxes. In near perfect condition. One came with the gun, back before the price run up. The other one I bought in a gun shop for $100, thinking it was for an outdoorsman. As the shop owner was sliding it in a bag for me to carry it home, I noticed the word "Masterpiece" printed on the box. I didn't argue or bring it to the attention of the seller. To me, one's as good as the other.
And never forget the other style Outdoorsman box. Probably ten times rarer than the red picture box. The bland maroon 1 piece box the early K22s shipped in.
There are different ways to obtain a box that good. You can spend the time searching the world. Or you can take the easy way and just pay someone else who has one. Like the Ebay box. I'm going to take a wild guess that the Ebay price was much cheaper but less satisifying than the search for one in similar condition. There are some requirements to finding a box that good, or one in acceptably good condition.
My quest for early K22 boxes goes back only 20 years. I was stumbling along, kind of like a drunk (only I was sober at the time). I found a table at National Gun Day where one of the booksellers had an extra table covered with boxes. He was asking $25 each for them, but I managed to land a red box, and a gold box for $40 total. Since that day I've watched the prices go up a bit. I've very willingly paid $100 and once $135. I don't think I've ever overspent on one.
I've even got a pair of Masterpiece boxes. In near perfect condition. One came with the gun, back before the price run up. The other one I bought in a gun shop for $100, thinking it was for an outdoorsman. As the shop owner was sliding it in a bag for me to carry it home, I noticed the word "Masterpiece" printed on the box. I didn't argue or bring it to the attention of the seller. To me, one's as good as the other.
And never forget the other style Outdoorsman box. Probably ten times rarer than the red picture box. The bland maroon 1 piece box the early K22s shipped in.
rburg
Member
And to think someone like yourself of formerly good moral character would allow themselves to be compromised by some scoundrel! I just can't imagine you doing something like that and violate all the rules of a gun show! I'm thinking Dave's buddy Ron would be upset if he were awake enough to know.
GF
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^
Ya' just gotta' have a quick hand and a fancy phone ol' Bud!
GF
Ya' just gotta' have a quick hand and a fancy phone ol' Bud!
GF
You mean this one???
I know that I've posted it recently ... but it is one of my favorite photos of one of my favorite guns.
OP
fat tom
Absent Comrade
That's a beauty. I can only dream. But I like the ribbed King conversion better. It's MY favorite! 
f.t.
f.t.
OOFDA!!!!!
That is cruel and unusual punishment!!! I gotta save that in my photos. My Oh my................Beautiful
You mean this one???
I know that I've posted it recently ... but it is one of my favorite photos of one of my favorite guns.
That is cruel and unusual punishment!!! I gotta save that in my photos. My Oh my................Beautiful
I have a very early one and was told mine shipped in one of these boxes. I figure that I will never match the gun with a box. But who knows, I might run in to one any day.
gjamison
Member
This is my red boxed K22 OD. It's not as nice as the one that sold for 8 bills but I like. Gun is 98+% and numbers to the box.
I'd like to have the talent to reproduce "original looking" boxes at a way cheaper price for the guy that wants to admire the package without breaking the bank. The idea is not to "cheat anyone", but offer a very close replica the average guy on a budget could afford. Much the same as buying a print of a famous painting. It's not worth mega-bucks, but looks just the same. Kudos to the collector that can drop the coin on the "original." I understand this would do nothing for the guy that enjoys the "hunt" for the elusive box. I'd love many "original" pre-1900 Winchester lever guns, but my 80's Browning 1886 is probably a better gun with newer metallurgy. I'm a user and not a collector anyway. Opening a museum is not in my future. Thoughts anyone?
CJ
Member
I watched one K22 OD box on that auction site not too long ago, maybe a year ago. It was nicer than the $868 box. It was so mint that it looked as if it was just manufactured. Perfect. It sold in the high $400 range, like for around $475 or so to someone known in the community, but not a forum poster. I was tempted, but not at that price.
rburg
Member
So if we assume your facts are correct, and there's no reason not to, the appreciation in value isn't quite double over a one year period. How's your 401k or IRA doing over this same period? I would think we have cheapskates who would even suggest the $475 price is/was out of line.
The most interesting thing about your post isn't the value increase on boxes, but the price increase in general. It always amuses me when we've got a poster who remembers the past so vividly, then goes to a gun show and see's prices he feels are way out of line. No question they would have convulsions over the box price, or even a similar box for half the $475 figure. But the reality is high quality items are in great demand by the collecting community. And they're willing to pay when a choice item comes up for sale.
Part of it is their perspective. They think of a gun box as something you leave on the floor of their damp basement, or pitch out in the first minutes of ownership. Some might even secretly lament having tossed out near equal condition boxes in their past. But many of us don't care about their opinions or motives. The reality is what counts, and its not what the grumps have to say. They're operating in the past.
I even sometimes smile and wonder what would have happened back in my new gun buying days had I found a gun in a shop I wanted. But when the clerk brought it out, I discovered scuffs or some other cosmetic defect in the box, and declined the purchase because the box wasn't pristine!
Most here would suggest I should be committed. Yet a fair number of new guns are delivered in a box that was just doing its job. That job is protecting the contents against evil. And one last thought. Above GF posted a clandestinely obtained photo of 35 Registered Magnums in their boxes. The original owner wouldn't even buy a gun unless it was near perfect and in its box. Now those guns are up for sale, or will be shortly, for maybe an average of $10,000 each. So for somewhere in the neighborhood of $350,000 you could leap forward into the stratosphere of the big time collectors, maybe placing yourself at the very top. Sure, its a bunch of money. But its probably got the ability to increase in value at a much faster rate than your IRA. You remember your IRA, the one going up at .1% per year, and then you're going to be paying state and federal income taxes on it!
The rising tide is suggested to float all boats. This tide has done a much better job on collector or investment grade guns. Those of you that shoot and burn up your guns have even managed an undeserved increase in value.
Forget trying to save up any kind of $$ for boxes... I keep having to spend it on replacement keyboards for my laptop after they stop working from all of the uncontrolled drooling that occurs when your guys post THOSE kind of pics !!!
!!!
Sebago Son
Member
Rumor has it that there is a pallet load of red K-22/40 boxes all folded up and stashed in the deepest, darkest recessess of a vault owned by the granddaddy of all S&W collectors....
rburg
Member
So it would appear. The world cleaves into two groups. One is the shooters who want no part of nice old guns and boxes, or if they do, its only to abuse them to the point where only their peers would want them. The other are collectors who take really good care of the guns and boxes they have. The two diverge dramatically. As long as you are aware of your place in life, I don't see a problem. But when others ask questions, answer from your point of view. Then don't get upset when you see pristine old guns that are older than you going for big money. The gun you loaned out and the moron left out in the rain will never be worth as much as the gun that stayed at home.
Hell I am even saving new Ruger boxes. I have tossed out thousands of $ worth of boxes over the years.
GF
Member
I don't think it's an "outta' step with the market" perspective, I think it's a "I don't even know there is a market."
Some folks see guns as tools, some see them as recreation and some collect them for investment or plain ol' appreciation of a bygone era.
I like silver dollars, old guns ( the ones I can afford & I look here for pictures of the ones I can't) and grips and boxes that are no longer made by S&W.
Folks who aren't into collecting just shake their heads and can't see why you'd have a gun that you don't/won't shoot. Or a silver dollar you wouldn't spend, a pocket watch you don't carry. It's simple, I'm one that has a "plain ol' appreciation of a bygone era" I like high condition guns and I keep them that way.
I'm very much in the minority here, I can't always afford a revolver with a numbered box, so I buy one that's "close enough" for a high condition revolver. The purest doesn't think it's worth it and the shoot-em-all guys probably wonder why bother.
I see posts that I don't understand either, like a guy that buys a NIB old gun and "can't wait to take it to the range - it's what it's made for!"
Why didn't you sell the NIB gun for a profit & buy a used gun to shoot?
Comes down to freedom to spend YOUR money how ever the hell you want to I guess. I just don't post an opinion in the "I shoot all my guns ByGod!" threads.
Sorry for the thread drift.
GF
Some folks see guns as tools, some see them as recreation and some collect them for investment or plain ol' appreciation of a bygone era.
I like silver dollars, old guns ( the ones I can afford & I look here for pictures of the ones I can't
) and grips and boxes that are no longer made by S&W.Folks who aren't into collecting just shake their heads and can't see why you'd have a gun that you don't/won't shoot. Or a silver dollar you wouldn't spend, a pocket watch you don't carry. It's simple, I'm one that has a "plain ol' appreciation of a bygone era" I like high condition guns and I keep them that way.
I'm very much in the minority here, I can't always afford a revolver with a numbered box, so I buy one that's "close enough" for a high condition revolver. The purest doesn't think it's worth it and the shoot-em-all guys probably wonder why bother.
I see posts that I don't understand either, like a guy that buys a NIB old gun and "can't wait to take it to the range - it's what it's made for!"
Why didn't you sell the NIB gun for a profit & buy a used gun to shoot?
Comes down to freedom to spend YOUR money how ever the hell you want to I guess. I just don't post an opinion in the "I shoot all my guns ByGod!" threads.
Sorry for the thread drift.
GF
I always enjoy these threads cause everybody posts great pictures. The text is pretty much the same every time around some do some don't and some will never get it but that's okay because it won't affect the market one way or the other. Are those 35 RMs the same ones that are going to be available for viewing on the 1st.
rburg
Member
Yes, they're on David Carroll's web site. They were Ray Cheely's guns and I think they will start selling them Nov 1. I just wonder why someone with bags of money earning nothing doesn't invest in the entire lot of them.
Keith, this should be a lesson for you. Talk with Jim Rogers and then listen to his wisdom. Make a trip with him to NGD one time. Its basically similar to OGCA except you get a much larger crowd of outside vendors. Your products would do well there.
Keith, this should be a lesson for you. Talk with Jim Rogers and then listen to his wisdom. Make a trip with him to NGD one time. Its basically similar to OGCA except you get a much larger crowd of outside vendors. Your products would do well there.
I always enjoy these "shooter-collector" discussions (about like I enjoy the ongoing political ranting on the TV
).
Perhaps Lee could provide us with some sort of emblem at the top of our post like those that delineate our NRA membership, branch of service, etc. that we could select to tell the world whether we were in the "Ain't gonna own no gun I kaint shoot" or in the "I gotta empty box that is worth more than your whole durn gun safe contents" crowd.
Bob
(mark me up on the collector side, but don't make the mistake of thinking that if I'm pushed far enough into a corner I won't shoot any of them to get out of a jam!)
). Perhaps Lee could provide us with some sort of emblem at the top of our post like those that delineate our NRA membership, branch of service, etc. that we could select to tell the world whether we were in the "Ain't gonna own no gun I kaint shoot" or in the "I gotta empty box that is worth more than your whole durn gun safe contents" crowd.
Bob
(mark me up on the collector side, but don't make the mistake of thinking that if I'm pushed far enough into a corner I won't shoot any of them to get out of a jam!)
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