Anyone carry in a Safariland ALS?

[Wee Hooker]

I have more than a few ALS holsters. It's a simple process to pull the one screw that holds the entire ALS mechanism in place. They work without the retention feature just fine.

 

[rednichols]

Received my 6280 today and two markings on the backside make me think it was made in '06.

I wouldn't be so brazen as to call it a holster; because it's just a plastic box with a hasp over one end. The pistol (G20, I have to use an aluminum dummy here) moves up and down 1/2" (measured) in it. Can't think of any gunleather holster where that would be acceptable.

It's also 3-1/2" thick from hip contact to outer shell! And the gap created at the trigger is certainly big enough to access the trigger on a Glock -- that actually has no manual safety.

I would call this particular Safariland design either "what were they thinking?" or "unsafe at any speed" (if you remember the Corvair book) or "monstro" (if you remember the black whale of Pinocchio). I keep photos of these designs in my file that is called the former (whatweretheythinking).

 

[SATX]

Well, duty holsters tend to place the holster away from the body to accommodate the draw. You chose the model with only the hood, should've went with the 7360 or 6360, your gun would click in place.

 

[HardToHandle]

Received my 6280 today and two markings on the backside make me think it was made in '06.

I wouldn't be so brazen as to call it a holster; because it's just a plastic box with a hasp over one end. The pistol (G20, I have to use an aluminum dummy here) moves up and down 1/2" (measured) in it. Can't think of any gunleather holster where that would be acceptable.

It's also 3-1/2" thick from hip contact to outer shell! And the gap created at the trigger is certainly big enough to access the trigger on a Glock -- that actually has no manual safety.

I would call this particular Safariland design either "what were they thinking?" or "unsafe at any speed" (if you remember the Corvair book) or "monstro" (if you remember the black whale of Pinocchio). I keep photos of these designs in my file that is called the former (whatweretheythinking).

Offered with respect, the holsters discussion in the original post is for not a 6280, which is a dedicated SLS, a Self Locking System. I believe SLS is a 15 years older design than ALS.
ALS(R) Duty Holsters

Both are Safariland, both can be black, both hang off belts but they are actuated differently by the thumb. I also believe the systems can be combined. In the U.S., Safariland is a market leader in law enforcement retention holster. The line between ALS and SLS gets blurred in their website, but I mostly familiar with ALS in more a concealment use versus uniformed duty use.

Relative to vertical movement is totally different experience than I have had with Glock 19 ALS concealment holsters. I can put a G26 in the G19 and not have a half-inch of movement. Neither raises the trigger access concern either.

There is more movement in the 6378 light-bearing ALS holster but the bigger concern is just the holstering process there. That is a bit of polymer bucket, but again, modern U.S. law enforcement practice is for a weapon mounted light.

 

[stansdds]

For me, a holster than can double as concealed carry and open carry is a good quality pancake style holster with thumb break retention. I have a Gould & Goodrich that features a nice forward cant and will accommodate any S&W 39, 59, or 69 Series of pistols, including the DAO versions. Yes, I have to un-do my belt to put it on or take it off, but it is a great all around holster.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Never seen a safariland holster that wasn't adjustable. Have you tried reading the instructions?

 

[rednichols]

Well, duty holsters tend to place the holster away from the body to accommodate the draw. You chose the model with only the hood, should've went with the 7360 or 6360, your gun would click in place.

Well, I didn't buy it to use it! I knew its weaknesses already from images and reports but wanted to personally evaluate one.

A significant point is being missed, from my acquisition: this problem with the pistols being fired while still in the holster, on Glocks with lights, is well known yet I can still buy a used one: there was no recall.

Safariland dominates the market here, too, for uniformed officers. That the pistol moves up and down in it doesn't mean that I should have bought a different Safariland; it means that Safariland designed this model deficiently.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Can't tell if serious or not?

YouTube

 

[bugmanz]

BILL ROGERS IS A FREAKING GENIUS....................

 

[Doug M.]

I have had a couple of the SLS; I hated them because of my small hands. The hood simply was too hard to rotate reliably. I have a couple SLS; one was actually the level 3 SLS/ALS combo until I took off the hood. I have found them to be good for what they are. They are not concealment holsters and I don't have a light mounted. I knew that there was a problem with the Glocks and the lights years ago, but have not kept current on that as it doesn't matter much to me now. In addition, if someone is even trying to mess with your holster enough to crank off a round that way, you need to pay more attention and break their hand or fingers when they try.

I am not a fan of open carry, for many reasons, but if I did have some circumstance in which it was sound, I would almost certainly be using one of my old duty rigs. Under no condition would I use/own/allow the Serpa; the index finger release is only one of the well documented problems with it, and there are a lot of agencies and trainers that prohibit them, for well established reasons. While TTAG might be right in his critique of the holster in question, it is actually not designed for what he is doing; Safariland is serious about doing a lot of presentation training reps before using these holsters, and support for the Serpa is what we lawyers call impeachment evidence.

 

[rednichols]

BILL ROGERS IS A FREAKING GENIUS....................

Who could argue with that? One could do research:

Calif. Boy Fires Officer's Holstered Pistol - News - POLICE Magazine

Child fires officer's holstered gun at Minn. school

Investigation underway after officer's gun goes off in holster | CTV News Winnipeg

Police officer on duty accidentally shoots himself in the leg while trying to holster his gun

There are heaps more of these reports. In one, an officer sat next to another and the keys on his belt fell into his seatmate's ALS type holster; when the seatmate stood up the pistol fired. I don't try to keep track of all of 'em (but do have a very long list of Safariland lawsuits).

 

[seldon14]

Who could argue with that? One could do research:

Calif. Boy Fires Officer's Holstered Pistol - News - POLICE Magazine

Child fires officer's holstered gun at Minn. school

Investigation underway after officer's gun goes off in holster | CTV News Winnipeg

Police officer on duty accidentally shoots himself in the leg while trying to holster his gun

There are heaps more of these reports. In one, an officer sat next to another and the keys on his belt fell into his seatmate's ALS type holster; when the seatmate stood up the pistol fired. I don't try to keep track of all of 'em (but do have a very long list of Safariland lawsuits).

None of those mention the holster brand or make. One is an ND outside the holster.

 

[rednichols]

None of those mention the holster brand or make. One is an ND outside the holster.

Sure they do.

First item: states it is light bearing; know any other company that makes holster for them? Reader comments, because this is all so well-known:

"Dom @ 9/3/2013 3:34 PM
Prolly a safariland. A child's finger is small enough to get in between the holster and the gun to press the trigger. Ive tried it with an unloaded 23 in a 6378 with my pinky. Almost got it

Dom @ 9/3/2013 3:38 PM
On the lightbearing safariland holsters there is a significant gap that allows a pinky n or small childs finger to get to the trigger"

Second item, see above (know any other Level 3 maker, the term is Safariland's term):

"The holster was a department-approved level 3 security holster, with trigger guard, that typically cannot be touched or fired in the holster, but the child's small finger was able to reach inside."

 

[rednichols]

Third item: images show Safariland ALS. Safariland absolutely OWNS the uniform market in USA -- and Canada. The video shows ALS on all the officers. Video states it was the second incident.



Fourth item: images show Safariland ALS. Safariland also absolutely OWNS the uniform market in Australia; I see their holsters on every officer in these States --



Here's another, from a forum, just to twist the knife:

"I can and did pull trigger while gun is in Safariland ALS . . . ***", Steaz. Pistol-forum.com, 07 Oct 2016. 6378 ALS Concealment Paddle Holster (from a spreadsheet, you'll have to track it down yourself online).

And do these searches:

"Safariland docket". Google terms search returns multiple listings of Safariland product-related lawsuits on 2 pages. 31 Mar 2018

"Safariland lawsuits". Google terms search returns multiple listings of Safariland product-related lawsuits on 8 pages. 02 Apr 2018.

Bill is on record what his goal was/is for being in the holster business:

"Forrest Gump's Got Nothing on Bill Rogers". K. Wood, Recoil (Magazine), Vol. 13 Jul/Aug 2014. 'The real money was in duty gear'. .

 

[seldon14]

Blackhawk makes level 3 light bearing holsters.

Video wouldn't load for me but I'll take your word on it showing Al's holsters.

Those photos are both stock/file photos and don't necessarily represent the holsters from the incident.

Link 3 only contains one holster related discharge.

The 4th incident isn't holster related.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting these stories, or just didn't read them.

 

[rednichols]

I'm not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting these stories, or just didn't read them.

Right back you.

 

[seldon14]

Right back you.

If any of my above post is in correct I'm perfectly open to evidence of such.

You posted 4 links as evidence of the ALS holster being flawed. Only one shows the ALS in use by the department for sure.

The others are using photos from a stock image library.

Two of the examples where discharges of the gun outside the holster.

You implied no one but Safariland made a level 3 light bearing duty holster. Seems like a holstorian should know that.

Odds are good that they where using ALS holsters as they account for so many duty holsters, but presenting these as "proof" of a flaw with the holster is intellectual dishonesty.

 

[turnerriver]

I don't see anyone being convinced here, time to move on.
Regards,
John Witty
turnerriver
Moderator