Anyone Else Like The War Baby?

[desi2358]

One of my favorites, was fascinated by the little carbine since I was a kid. Got into seriously collecting them back when all the imports were coming in back in the late 80's/early 90's. Had every manufacturer except Irwin Pederson. Never found one of those at a price I could afford. Some were older DCM guns, most were later returns. One came from the son of a WWII officer and I suspect came home with him. I really enjoyed collecting and shooting them but changing life circumstances led to me selling most of them off a few years ago. Only have one left now, a Quality Hardware gun that had the recoil plate and barrel glass bedded at some point in it's life. It's a great shooting little gun, no import marks so I suspect it was a DCM gun at one time.

As a side note I can't really say what got me hooked on carbines when I was a kid. They could be seen in various TV shows and movies and I was fascinated with military books. Dad was a vet, Korean war era but I never talked guns with him much as a kid. Later in life we did talk, he liked the carbine for it's light weight and handiness but for shooting he preferred the Garand. Since his main job was driving supply trucks he ended up with a carbine and I have several pics of him with one. So there is always a place for a carbine in my gun safe... and a Garand to keep it company.

 

[30-30remchester]

It's not an optimal deer rifle, but it'll do the job up close. I've taken several in the 50 to 75 yard range hunting the big woods in south Arkansas and all were one shot stops using Winchester soft/hollow points.

My results using the 30 Carbine on deer the same as yours. My only deer was a small mule deer buck at 50 yards using Winchester hollow points. The shot was to the heart and stopped in the heart perfectly mushroomed. I carried the bullet around for years to show friends till I eventually lost it. The recovered bullet fascinated me so, that I have spent 56 years collecting recovered bullets from game animals. I have in excess of 200 in my collection but would give a chunk of change if I could find my first bullet again.

 

[racoonbeast]

When I was a kid these things were for sale all over the place and cheap. They just never lit my fire. To be honest, they still don't. But, I can see why history buffs and others might like them.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I have some and enjoy loading for and shooting them. Friend has an original Paratrooper folding stock carbine(from the CMP) if I want to jump out of an airplane.

 

[AJ]

A friend's carbine collection.

 

[BB57]

When I was a kid these things were for sale all over the place and cheap. They just never lit my fire. To be honest, they still don't. But, I can see why history buffs and others might like them.

I liked their looks but was never really moved to buy one until I noticed a tactical rifle match was scheduled in the morning on the same Saturday as a DCM High Power leg match.

It was a two gun shoot with a full size .30 caliber battle rifle (M1, M1A, FAL, HK-91, BM-59, etc) required as well as a "light rifle" such as an AR-15, AK/AKM, AR-180, HK-93, Mini-14, SKS, or M1 Carbine.

I didn't own a suitable rifle at the time, but I knew of an excellent condition Inland M1 carbine for $125 at one of the local gun shops. That was about &50 more than an SKS, but I liked the looks of the M1 a lot more. I bought it along with 3 new in the wrap GI 30 round magazine and the only two boxes of .30 carbine ammo they had - 50 round boxes of surplus Lake City ammo.

I fired 10 rounds to confirm the zero and confirm the sight settings out to the 250 yard max for the shoot a hour or so before tue start of the match and loaded the other 90 rounds into the three 30 round magazines.

I had attracted some attention from the AR-15 crowd, which at the time consisted of shooters with mostly 16" carbines with minor mods such as muzzle brakes and trigger jobs. They thought I was wildly optimistic to think I'd be competitive with my "antique" M1 carbine.

However, by this time with just 10 rounds down range, I was impressed with the M1 Carbine in terms of its light weight, fast handling and excellent pointability at short range and it's surprisingly serviceable accuracy out to 250 yards max required for the light rifle stage with most shots being 100 yards or less, where speed and handling mattered.

Besides, I knew I'd clean house on the "long rangel targets in the .30 "battle rattle" stage and do well at the shorter range targets as the M1A/M14 points and snap shoots extremely well at short range.

In any case, I placed second in the light rifle category (with first place going to the match organizer and his HK-93), beating every AR-15 in the field with my "antique". I placed first in the battle rattle with my M1A and between the two placed first overall.

I became an M1 Carbine fan that day. I'm still a fan and currently own three of them:

- an Underwood;
- a Saginaw; and
- a Quality Hardware.

——

Terminal performance poor compared to 5.56 M193 ball ammo, although .30 carbine still gives pretty impressive temporary wound cavity results in ballistic gel with 110 gr FMJ at just under 2000 fps.

However, with 110 gr soft points, 100 gr semi jacketed soft points, or 110 gr Hornady FTX bullets you get very solid 18-21" penetration and expansion from .45" to .65" depending on the specific bullet used.

That performance along with its light weight, excellent handling and suitable accuracy out to 200-250 yards makes it an impressive personal defense weapon with terminal ballistics that don't far behind a .357 Magnum hollow point fired from a carbine.

 

[.357magger]

Bought mine a year ago, wonder what took me so long to discover this great little handy Carbine

I think it avoided the post war upgrades

U.S. CARBINE CAL. 30 M1 - Underwood Elliott Fisher Company

Not bad for a typewriter company huh?

That's another aspect of these arms that really interest me. How quickly it was put into production by such a diverse group of manufacturers.

Standard Products was, and still is, a manufacturer of automotive systems and components. They produced just shy of 250,000 of the 6+ million made during WW2. Most used barrels from Underwood, like mine, and other sub assembly parts.

I'd personally LOVE to find a Rock Ola. I think the jukebox angle is pretty cool. I've fondled a couple over the years but the asking price was always too rich for my wallet.

 

[LEO918]

Over the years I've had a casual interest in the M-1 Carbine. My first was a $29.95 Underwood out of a 55 gallon drum full of surplus carbines from a Yellow Front store.

Ten or so years later anther Underwood from J&G sales at maybe $150.

Fast forward 20 years yet another Underwood at about $600 from a gun show seller.

About five years later I picked up my current Carbine, a Saginaw from Cabela's for about $650. I just installed a push safety in it s a couple of days ago.

 

[Patrick L]

Love my carbine. I only have 1, genuine GI. I want to say Inland, can't remember and I'm not home.

I love how every time I shoot it at the range, some historian points out that "you know the North Koreans just got up, dusted themselves off and kept coming..." I have a standing offer: I'll give you $50 to pace off 50 yds, bend over, and I'll shoot you in the butt with it. It's only a . 30 carbine, probably won't even break the skin...

No takers yet!

 

[Walter Rego]

A lot of people suggest a lever action carbine in something live .357 or even .44 Magnum as a home defense weapon these days. They are light, carry a respectable amount of ammo and have increased ballistics due to the longer barrels.

But I sure think an M-1 Carbine with a 15 round magazine loaded with soft points or hollow points will still be a very effective home defense weapon, even some 80 years after its introduction. And, other than needed two hands to chamber the first round, it is light and short enough to shoot or handle with one hand should the other be holding a phone or flashlight. What's not to love about the M-1 Carbine ?

Well, it's not a .30-06 but it sure will do the job within a 200 yard radius, maybe a little more if pressed.

 

[BB57]

Love my carbine. I only have 1, genuine GI. I want to say Inland, can't remember and I'm not home.

I love how every time I shoot it at the range, some historian points out that "you know the North Koreans just got up, dusted themselves off and kept coming..." I have a standing offer: I'll give you $50 to pace off 50 yds, bend over, and I'll shoot you in the butt with it. It's only a . 30 carbine, probably won't even break the skin...

No takers yet!

The myth has always been that the 110 gr bullet at 1600 or so fps at around 100 yards wouldn't penetrate the ice and snow encrusted padded cotton coats and underlying uniforms of the Chinese troops.

The reality is that under that large padded cotton coat was a skinny Chinese soldier and a lot of empty space around the edges of that soldier for the bullet to pass.

The reality is also that .30 carbine 110 gr FMJ will penetrate 6-7" of plywood.

 

[BB57]

Not bad for a typewriter company huh?

That's another aspect of these arms that really interest me. How quickly it was put into production by such a diverse group of manufacturers.

Standard Products was, and still is, a manufacturer of automotive systems and components. They produced just shy of 250,000 of the 6+ million made during WW2. Most used barrels from Underwood, like mine, and other sub assembly parts.

I'd personally LOVE to find a Rock Ola. I think the jukebox angle is pretty cool. I've fondled a couple over the years but the asking price was always too rich for my wallet.

I came across an M1 carbine in a local gun shop that was marked as a Rock Ola on the hang tag. To be fair to the LGS owner it did have a Rock-Ola barrel, but it didn't take much looking to see a "Qua" peeking out from under one side of the rear sight and an "are" peeking out from the other.

A quick check of the serial number verified it was in a block assigned to Quality Hardware. I pointed that out to the LGS who had bought it thinking it was a Rock Ola.

But it was none the less original as the date on the barrel matched the serial range, and Rock Ola was just down the street from Quality Hardware. Consequently Rock-Ola barrels were commonly installed on Quality Hardware carbines.

It was none the less nicely priced as there were not many more Quality Hardware carbines made than there were Rock Ola carbines and I took it home.

 

[wundudnee]

I was a little late to the party and gave a little more for these two. The top one is a Postal Meter and the bottom is Winchester. The Winchester's serial number puts it late enough to have the bayonet lug and the swing safety. I have several books on them and whenever I feel like getting a little confused I get them out. With so many manufacturers and all sharing parts and pieces it can be a challenge to know what you have.



The Winchester is probably a 1945 rifle according to the books. It has a M-2 pot belly stock.

So much to learn, so little time.

 

[Golddollar]

I'd personally LOVE to find a Rock Ola. I think the jukebox angle is pretty cool. I've fondled a couple over the years but the asking price was always too rich for my wallet.

I did 45 years ago, and I could kick myself for not trying to buy it. Back in 1977 the City of Reading, PA was going to auction off a boatload of S&W snub nosed revolvers and M1 carbines that the Police Department had. I am still sure to this day that at least one of the carbines was a Rock Ola, and I knew back then it was something special. But alas, i was on my first job out of school and just starting to work. I should have taken a chance back then.

 

[Darkenfast]

I've handled them, watched others shoot them, but never have had a chance to fire one, shame to say.

I think it was a brilliant move to launch production of these for WW2. You can complain all you want about how inferior they were to the M1 Garand, but they beat the heck out of a 1911A1 or a .38 revolver for those who just needed a personal defense weapon.

Most troops already knew how to operate and get hits with one because of their rifle training. They had peep sights, which meant if they could see it, they could hit it, out to the limits of the cartridge. The basic load was three 15-round magazines. Very few of these troops were skilled with a handgun. The carbine round had much better penetration on things like steel helmets.

There are times when only a handgun will do, but in most cases, an M1 Carbine was a far better choice.

 

[PauldL]

I love my M1 that I inherited from my dad.
I believe it's a 1943 by Standard
I still shoot it too. That little 30 cal is super handy

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

FAKE M-1's

My first M-1 Carbine was a fake. Made by Universal, and use the metal Hand Guard. These only appear to be a US M- Carbine! They accept the same magazines and use the same ammo, but the trigger housing is pot metal and wears out in relativity few (about 200) Magazine changes! THe inner spring is Frankenstein's illegitimate son! I bought that brand new in 1980 for $99+Tax, at the same time US M-1's were $250-300.

My current M-1's are both IBM's. My niece's roommate needed cash when moving and sold it to me for $100 Cash in 1992. My other is a working T-3 Night Scoped version I bought for $600 in 1981, when I was set-up at an OGCA show in Columbus. The T-3 has the hard carry case and field manual, Missing are the 6V battery and the canvas battery bag. I use a 6V motorcycle battery and a gas mask bag! For observation in pitch black it sees 125 yards, for signaling to another scope 400 yards. In modern use I could see raccoons to 200-225 yards in areas that had heavy light pollution.

Weight of the T-3, M-1, and Battery bag with battery is about 35-45 pounds! Very compact and light for 1953! About double a M-16 with a starlight scope in the Vietnam era! Many Green Beret "B" teams had them, but mine bares different marking on the hard case.

T-3 usage:
The Field Manual says to recharge the original battery use a running 6V Jeep OR there was a rack for 4 batteries and use a running Duce & a half (24V). The scope was only to be used on the M-1 Carbine or 2.5" Bazooka. The recoil from other weapons would damage the scope! So a Night scoped equipped "Observer" would sit between two M-2 30 cal machine guns, and using tracer ammo, mark targets for the big boys. NOT MY IDEA OF FUN AGAINST WAVES OF CHINESE SOLDIERS when you can't see them more than 125 yards! Oh, BTW, the scope's distance is very degraded by snow or fog!

Ivan

 

[smithman 10]

Never owned one

But fired them to qualify one year over in West Berlin in the USAF.

Rattily old things but a lot of fun to shoot. I should have bought one when the CMP sold a bunch a few years back. Now that I am a geezer, it would be the perfect light rifle to have - light weight, compact and super cool and super simple to operate, basically like the Garand with the charging thing-a-ma-jig on the right side where it should have been on the M-16!!

I always hated that top of the action M-16 charging handle. Hated it.

 

[Grayfox]

I love the M1 Carbine and have two of them. The first is a Standard products I bought off of GB some years ago. The second is an Inland that I got from CMP.
I believe its the perfect home defense rifle. Especially in an urban setting. Short, light, quick, easy handling and with more than enough stopping power. I think its a much better choice than the AR most people use.

Here's the Inland along with a few friends.

Unfortunately, the gas cylinder on the Standard Products rifle cracked. I had to replace the barrel with a mid-70s replacement barrel. Since it was no longer original, I figured what the hell and I brought it into the 21st century. Don't laugh and don't cuss, this odd ball is a great shooter and tons of fun.
My version of the black rifle.
BTW: I have the parts and can change it back to original in about half an hour.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

M-1 Carbine Ammo

Since I've owned M-1 Carbines from the early 80's on and shoot them, I must come up with "Food" for their diet. Real surplus ammo has been dried up since the riots in the 60's, The Remington and Winchester commercial ammo of the early to mid 70's was only found in a slightly slower FMJ loading and truly anemic! So my RCBS M-1 Carbine high speed steel dies set marked '79 was bought and I loaded my first 500. The powder invented for M-1 Carbine has never been sold to the public, so WW296/H-110 was invented to fill the need (that it is so good for other rounds like 410 shotgun is just icing on the cake!) H or IMR 4227 will also cycle the action but getting over 1750 fps will be a miracle!

In the late 70's or early 80's, Winchester ammo started loading 110 grain soft hollow point ammo at full velocities. (I never had a M-2, but am told by a friend that did, the commercial SHP ammo was fine for M-2's that didn't already jam like crazy!)

When I started load for the M-1, I used 110 grain FMJ RN Hornady bullets and w-296 powder and Win WSR primers and made ammo as good as or better than commercial FMJ ammo. I later bought a gas checked bullet mold for Lyman 3118 (115 grain RNFP 32-20 bullet with a 2 grain Lyman gas check, sized .309"= 117 grain cast RNFP. It fed and shot like a dream, I used a wheel weight alloy. After over 5000 rounds, I never had any leading of the gas block/piston or barrel.)

If you are going to load 1000's of rounds at a time, go ahead and buy the Carbide sizer. Otherwise just get the standard die set. You need to lube the brass for either sizer! I have both and steel will serve a single stage press user fine! On a progressive, you should have the carbide and use a dry lube like Hornady 1 Shot.

SURPLUS AMMO WARNING: No US made Carbine ammo has ever been loaded with the corrosive Mercury primers! Early ammo did have Chloride base primers (table salt) so normal Nitro solvent will do fine. NOW the scarry part: In the early 90's we started seeing brass that was green from corroded from Mercury priming! It was head stamped "LC 53" and Berdan primed. It came from China and was copied from our ammo. It was in 50 round boxes that looked just like 1953 Lake City boxes, BUT in small print said "Made in China"! You must use solvent for Mercury priming on this ammo, and I have no idea how to get it out of you gas piston/block!

At one point I bought a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine, It had the 7.5" barrel. Surplus Ammo stuck very badly and even with ear plus or muffs it hurt my ears very badly! the W 296 reloads stuck also. The H-4227 reloads extracted just fine. That is actually a good indicator of how it will do as to velocity in a Carbine! So the rule of thumb is: If it's fun to shoot in a Blackhawk, it's pretty slow in a real M-1 Carbine!

Ivan